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Post by tom on Mar 30, 2006 17:42:42 GMT
hi kim - the 3rd example...i met her a few weeks ago, and that felt like a turning point, surely. but i'd recently asked to be inspired, so i wasn't actually surprised when she walked in that crowded room and i knew i just had to talk to her - just accepting of it, and appreciative.
the turning point flavor for me is all about 5th house stuff, historically a blind spot for me. when we're together, it's about play and enjoying each other. before meeting her i was observing and getting very loud feedback that i'm very serious; that i verge on "NOT FUN", the hearing of which made me less so, i'm sure you can imagine. the space i make with this woman is a new kind for me. when she asked me a question once about astrology, i began in my teacher mode, and then realized that i didn't want to give a lecture or teach anything, i just wanted to play with her, so i stopped - a good thing for me. our synastry includes suns in each other's 5th, jupiter in each other's 7th, suns and jupiters trine, and her moon on my venus/pallas/ascendant. so so far there's a lot of happy flow between us.
meeting her coincided with negotiations with an ex-girlfriend. we'd dated for something like 3 months in the fall, but it was rather intense and seemed like much longer. we were talking about retooling our relationship, coming at each other with completely different approaches. and then i met this woman who inspires me, and the ex freaked out (i'm fully open - told her everything). so, um, i'm learning a lot about relationships, let me tell you. ultimately, the point should be something about this 5th house influence showing me how to enjoy people and things while not being attached to outcomes. with venus-pluto in libra/12th, i need that lesson.
and that attraction to someone larger than life - i believe you mean that the native might have that, but that's what my instinctive response to it is as well. so yes, not always an asset, i also have to remember! i'm sensitive to all forms of venus, and i certainly notice (and probably idealize) persons with a strong venus.
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Post by blueorchids on Mar 30, 2006 17:52:58 GMT
Tom,
Thank you for sharing your experiences with the vertex. That sense of knowing someone without having spent a great deal of time with them seems to be the hallmark of close vertex contacts. That sense of being a bit tortured by them rings familiar. I also find that vertex contacts do make you want to be "better" than you normally might be, different perhaps..How do I say that more clearly??
I think these sorts of vertex contacts are never, ever light. I once read that sometimes VERTEX contacts create bonds with people who for better or worse are difficult to ever completely forget or to detach ourselves from.
For me they have been extraordinary. They have been long term and when rich and deep, very rewarding. But, they have also been gut wrenching painful at times. For me they have simply manifested Intensity, the sheer brute force of intensity both ecstatic and deeply sad. All of these relationships also have Chiron aspects. And I am certain that impacts the experience.
Spouse (15 years) --My Uranus conjuncts His Vertex (1 orb) 1st Love (ten year relationship from age 19-28) My Neptune Conjuncts his Vertex ( 0 orb) Best Friend (30 years) Her Mercury conjuncts My Vertex (3 orbs) Sister and Best friend Her Mars conjuncts my Vertex (0 orbs) Son's Mars conjuncts my Vertex (0 degrees) My Ascendant conjuncts same Son's Sun/Vertex (0 degrees) My Ascendant conjuncts Doc's Vertex; His Vertex conjuncts My Ascendant (both 0 orbs). These are two points not planets but there constantly seems to be something triggered with this exact double contact. I think an 8th house vertex (mine) has its own issues. LOL. I need to keep researching that notion!
Finally, like Doc, My Mom and I had double whammy vertex contact. Pluto and Vertex conjunct both ways -- exactly 1 orb both ways. I also have my Vertex conjunct My father's Pluto (one way). Gosh. Pluto.....
I hope others keeping sharing on this one. It's very provocative.
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Post by tom on Mar 30, 2006 19:13:14 GMT
just thought of one other thing: in my second example, the transiting north node was on my vertex. obviously, then, the transiting south node was on her sun/my anti-vertex.
i use the transiting south node as stirring things up from under the surface, making apparent emotional or other kinds of issues relative to the house and sign it's transiting, plus the natal ruler configuration (for me, scorpio/1st - am i being the scorpio that i am? - the ruler being venus in libra in the 12th, close to the ascendant - am i showing my venus?). so in this meeting/relationship, i have a sense of the past having been thrust into the present in order for a chance to look at it, and figure out how to process it...and then move on. that last part's important in my mind - that learning to sort the past from the present, and then making choices based in the present.
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Post by Kim Falconer on Mar 30, 2006 22:28:55 GMT
Thanks everyone! This discussion is very interesting! Tom, I so KNOW what you mean when you said, when she asked me a question once about astrology, i began in my teacher mode, and then realized that i didn't want to give a lecture or teach anything, i just wanted to play with her, so i stopped - a good thing for me.I have an 'Oracle' subpersonality that I don't want to surface too strongly when in the spirit of romance, fun and play. If I do the lecture thing, or start answering questions, it makes the relationship lop-sided. (and believe me, they are usually already lop-sided enough!) I don't want to have all the answers and insights all the time, especially if I want to surrender and be swept away! If I'm attracted to someone, I purposely Do Not look at there chart for as long as possible. I want to have the experience, not think about what the experience might be like...or think, oh my, his Mars is not as strong as mine, or he has Uranus/Pluto in the 7th etc etc... I look at the chart, of course, eventually and get the ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....of course! but I don't want the Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ...of course, too soon! My biggest intent in relationship of any kind is 'no expectations, no assumptions'. Not easy mandates for an astrologer! Kim
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Post by tom on Mar 31, 2006 19:12:48 GMT
kim - i struggle with this! even yesterday, when i saw her briefly. she told me something significant that she had chosen to do, a response to a situation that wasn't her norm, and that she felt good about it. i remembered that the eclipse was in her 10th opposite her 4th house moon...and i had to almost bite my lip to avoid saying something...but then i did! i said something brief to acknowledge the positive choice she made, and she wanted an explanation of the symbols. i said we could talk some other time about it, and my evasiveness was strange. so our jupiters in each other's 7th are for now at odds - a lesson i take from her is to stop lecturing, and the lessons she takes from me are in that lecturing. maybe there's something else i can lesson, to get out of that pattern.
but yes, i made the mistake of looking at her chart after we met a couple of times. i'm taking your cue here, and will not do so in the future! i see what you mean about getting to know the person and not the chart.
which reminds me that my ex and i did an informal reading for just after we met - she's a palmist and we traded as we got to know each other. i see how that got hairy, based on what we saw about each other (simulataneously the great stuff about what's going on inside and the not-great stuff about certain choices).
"an oracle subpersonality" - that's really it, isn't it? i love that phrasing. it seems that those of us who fashion a lot of our behavior around using tools to help people need to remember that we're people, too. and thankfully, there are plenty of people wandering around our lives who are not looking for oracular help - they remind us.
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Post by Kim Falconer on Mar 31, 2006 22:14:35 GMT
Oh yes, Tom! That's it... And sometimes I just want to be experienced as a woman...not an oracle! For legal reasons (I have clients all over the world and there are shifting laws on this--and the internet boundaries are blurred) I don't 'date' anyone I have read for within 6 months of reading. That's California state law at this time. If there is someone that WOW's me...I don't read for them, 'just in case'...lol Kim
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Post by samina on Apr 5, 2006 12:38:07 GMT
Tom & Kim -- what a great point. I've navigated that issue as well, although I'm currently not working with others in that capacity. Oracles can become objectified as quickly as women can... LOL
I hadn't thought of the legal ramifications, but that makes sense. And being on the internet, the scope is so huge... I applaud your clarity, Kim!
sam
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Post by whiteheather on Apr 25, 2006 15:00:03 GMT
I read or skimmed all of these posts, and very little seems to be said about the anti-vertex. What does it mean when there are connections there in synastry? My anti-vertex, for example, is flanked by somebody's Uranus and name asteroid, one degree apart on each side. Also, that same person's Vertex is conj. my North Node. (I think that's a positive thing, but what about the AV conj.?)
With my husband, btw. there are no Vertex conjunctions at all. But we have one square (his V square my MC) and one inconjunct (my V square his Pluto). Is this just further confirmation that we are not meant to be together??
Whiteheather
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Post by Amoroso on Apr 25, 2006 21:09:24 GMT
WH, I think Kim would say that a chart can not tell you whether or not you and your husband are meant to be together, but that energy is energy and it will express either positively or negatively. Oh man, do I understand that! (Kim must be really busy right now but I know she'll be back as soon as she can!!!!! I think Pluto on such a personal point could feel extremely heavy, transformational, like a bull-dozer razing a building to make way for something new. How do you experience it? We can look at the anti-vertex as an opposition--it is opposite the vertex. It is a very powerful connection in synastry. I think one of the articles we looked at awhile back suggests keeping the orbs small, but I know Kim uses a wider orb. C' Venus is on my anti-vertex by 2 degrees and my Mercury is exactly on his anti-vertex, and it has been the most life-changing relationship of my life. My husband and family members and I and I have many vertex connections but not the conjunction or opposition. Talk soon, Amoroso
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Post by whiteheather on Apr 25, 2006 23:43:42 GMT
Amoroso, I think as long as you are on the boards Kim can safely feel she has a good alter ego installed here during her absence.... Well done, energy, yes, yes. How does V square Pluto feel? It's hard to isolate these things for me, there are so many other aspects more obvious and powerful. I feel his Saturn and Mars on my Ascendant so much, it kind of blocks out the other stuff... Anyway, I only just found out about the Vertex. Probably conj. are more powerful here. Keep up the good work. Whiteheather
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Post by Kim Falconer on Apr 26, 2006 0:12:40 GMT
Thanks for that, Amoroso! I am insanely busy right now and I can't even read any more threads today! Whiteheather, I am very interested in the vertex and will come back to this thread after I have done two thousand things...lol Soon! Do read my article on the Vertex on my main site www.nrg.com.au/~d-falcon/News.htm#vertand realize that the anti-vertex - vertex creates an axis, like the Nodes, or the Fortuna and Part of Spirit. They are linked! You don't touch one without activating the other. Okay, I have to fly! Hopefully I can get to more posting tomorrow! Kim ps You spotted it...Amoroso is one of my twin spirits!
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Post by Amoroso on Apr 28, 2006 12:46:46 GMT
Oh, gosh, WH, I just read your post
"Amoroso, I think as long as you are on the boards Kim can safely feel she has a good alter ego installed here during her absence.... "
Which is just about the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me! But the thing is, My Sun is conjunct Kim's Mercury and her Sun is conjunct my Mercury!!!
I would never have made it through the past year and a half without her wisdom, humor and friendship!!!
Amoroso
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Post by primamateria on Apr 28, 2006 13:36:09 GMT
Hi everyone... I should be doing something to get organised for the weekend but couldn't help myself after reading through this thead... I've tried to find some way to make sense/use of the vertex 24 Cap in 8) in the natal chart but so far nothing stunning has occurred to me - I watch this point and transits but Nada happens. So anyway tonight I did a quick run through of charts and checked for vertex points and found four involving my sister (her Vx on my NN), her daughter, my father (his VX on my Venus) and my best friend (her Vx on my Fortuna) (and yours Amoroso - your vertex three degrees from my Moon, a bit far, but we have tightly conjunct Mercuries... ). Only one of those is an exact Vx conj Vx - my sister's daughter, who is now ten years old, but who I've always felt was someone I should be caring for in very real and practical ways (oh, thats the Capricorn speaking isn't it?)... I took her from my very traumatised sister after the birth for her first day and felt very connected, in much the same way I do with my own children. But my sister moved away and we only see each other every two years or so. thanks for this thread! I might otherwise never thought about this way of looking at the vertex. blessings, pm
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Post by primamateria on Apr 28, 2006 13:43:47 GMT
ps. Tom, what happened - did you pursue a relationship with the woman you met (Jupiter-Venus) or did you renegotiate things with your previous lover? Hopefully either way things are going well for you. Don't leave me hanging - I'm living vicariously, having zilch romance myself these days! lol
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Post by tom on Apr 28, 2006 15:46:54 GMT
hi pm - i'm pursuing nothing in the short term.
my ex and i have made peace, and there's really a lot of caring & attraction there, but i'm pretty sure i'm not (re-)entering an intense relationship with anyone right now (and we're very intense together). i've been soul searching what she and i seem to have agreed to do together, including using our charts from the evolutionary point of view, which can show prior life dynamics/intentions, and have come up with interesting observations. mostly, from fear we've made a number of lower choices with our composite pluto-sun virgo/9th and other things...and i can see how with conscious attention we could make something marvelous together. my feeling is that we're not done yet, but we each have things to do before we could consider continuing on the mate level (i have to get more comfortable with my body & asserting my will, and she has to own some pain and learn/consistently remember not to project).
with the jupiter-venus woman...i feel we're showing each other things, teaching each other, and that we don't have to be involved to fulfill that - that's a separate choice. one thing she's showing me is a safe place for me to (how to say this??) get more comfortable with my senses - physical senses. she triggers all 5 physical senses, and i'm having a great time just being the instrument of them. i'm not entirely sure what i might be showing her...it might be for her moon as much as for my venus-ascendant-pallas (her moon is conjunct them in libra) - i don't know. actually, there might something about creating a safe place for her to be as sensitive as she is - that pisces sun on the NN near the MC (my sun trines it), the 4th house libra moon. and our suns are in each other's 5th, and our jupiters are in each other's 7th - there's also what i think of as a 'playful benevolence' we create together.
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