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Post by Kim Falconer on Apr 23, 2005 0:47:23 GMT
Hello A.R. That is an interesting contact. I think we need to research the meaning of Karma and then apply that to what we know about the node. Any ideas? Were is your asteroid Karma and what have you noticed "happens" when it is activated by transit? Anyone? As far as "What turns it on" , synastry aspect are usually activated by being around each other. Though other, major planetary aspects may take precedent, I suspect that with "Karma" the turning point would be just a matter of time... I'll do some research of my own and get back. Kim
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Post by aquariusrising2 on Apr 23, 2005 4:18:46 GMT
Kim, thanks for your reply. Obviously, this connection is compelling to me. I have done some research on the definition of Karma and the intrinsic meaning seems to change from religion to religion. I guess the best I can do is to look at this intuitively. To me Karma is what we "do" to achieve a sort of balance. The assignment we choose (or maybe don't choose) to take on to find the balance. Unfinished business? A debt? Growth? I believe it always starts with a cause and ends with an effect. sort of a fate initiated by cause. Vertex: From Kim's website: "The vertex appears as a sensitive point linked to fateful encounters with others, seemingly sudden epiphanies, turning points in life and a destiny over which we have no control. Activated, it can synchronize with an experience of another whose effect registers as some degree of profound or extraordinary." Then goes on... "When one person's inner planets or asteroids (Sun through to Jupiter), angles, nodes, vertex or certain Arabic parts conjunct the vertex, there can be a feeling of fate, destiny, rightness or wrongness about the encounter. Something in the contact with that person may have the ability to create profound change in the native, over a long or short period of time. The change may be perceived as pleasing or acrimonious, the conjunction often reflecting the former, the opposition the later." Where does that leave my interpretation It seems a redundant theme. Karma vs. Karma? Fate vs. Fate? I don't know I can say that the Ver/Karma conjunction in Virgo (my 7th house) is conjunt both or our Pluto's trine his Psyche, Mercury and Saturn in Capricorn (conjunt my Jupiter) and sextile both our Neptunes in Scorpio. My Karma asteroid lies in Scorpio conjunct his Jupiter close to my midheaven. Any thoughts? Anyone else who has a Vertex/Karma connection? Looking forward to any input. Thanks!! A.R.
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Post by darrah19 on Apr 23, 2005 17:10:11 GMT
so where do I find this "karma" thingie? is it an asteroid or a part?
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Post by aquariusrising2 on Apr 23, 2005 18:18:42 GMT
Hi Dar,
It is an asteriod #3811.
Hope that helps.
A.R.
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Post by Kim Falconer on Apr 24, 2005 0:54:58 GMT
I think the only way to get to the deeper understanding of this contact it to look at the origin of the word Karma.
It is Sanskrit, from KARMAN or KAROTI which means "to do" or "to work".
KARMA is a word and we attach meaning to it in the context of what we know: The usual being gleaned from Hindu or Buddhist "consequences of a person's actions. Fate. Destiny."
The word originally referred to the simple act of "doing". In that "taking of action" we have the RESULT -- consequences which will change our destiny, but Karma isn't the destiny, it is the action that leads to it.
In this sense, asteroid 3811 Karma is quite different to the Vertex. The synastry contact could mean that "the work or actions" of another "trips" you "destiny switch". Being around that person when they are "doing" could at times bring you to a kind of epiphany or turning point. A realization. It's a two way link that joins action with revelation.
Does that make more sense?
My Karma is 22 Gemini conjunct my Mercury in the midst of my Gemini stellium so it's hard for me to put my finger on. I do say in my mind sometimes things like, "I have to write! I have to teach!" Perhaps there is something of the "doing" that motivates my Mercury energy. I know a lot of clients and friends and forum members that have personal planets very close to my Karma (especially Astro-tutor clients!)
In a quick look at synastry charts I noticed that Amelia Earhart (who I did intensive research on for a case study) had Neptune at 21 Gem 33. I was "doing" at lot of work on her "mysterious" disappearance for months.
The town where I have worked harder in my life than anywhere in the past for 15 years has Jupiter exactly opposite my Karma!
As far a men go...I can't find any close contacts to my Karma (or Mercury). I think I tend to go for men without the benefit of my rational mind or sense of "work"!
Anyone else checking into this theme?
It's interesting! Kim
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Post by aquariusrising2 on Apr 24, 2005 2:14:26 GMT
thanks Kim! I have a clearer understanding now. What I will look at now is the planets touched by this conjunction. Perhaps that will tell me the theme, or how action could be implemented. Interesting. I just noticed my Ex's karma is conjunct my Asc his IC. I will have to assimilate that one for a while. Thanks again!! A.R.
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Post by KrisKris on Apr 28, 2005 10:46:54 GMT
Hello Kim & Aquariusrising,
Thanks for the postings on KARMA and Vertex. In India KARMA is generally referred when something bad happens, be it to individuals or groups. The explanation given by Kim though falls exactly in place mythlogically, the application of the same may need a relook. My personal experience over the last 20 years of dealing with people dragged me to the conclusion that I am destined to serve others and loose something/anything eventhough I only derserve award.
I just worked on my 3811 Karma asteroid. It falls exactly on my capricorn 7th cusp (less than one minute orb). It is out of bound by huge margin and trine my moon, psyche conjuct (5 deg orb) in virgo. I do remember so many minor things that hurt me over the past 48 years of life. I call them minor. Yes they are really minor. But they hurt me a lot. May be psyche (the love seeking girl) is responsible for that.
By the by, how do you look at Karma conjunct 7th cusp ?
Thanks Kris
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Post by aquariusrising2 on Apr 28, 2005 16:48:39 GMT
Hi Kris, I, of course, defer to Kim, and what she has to say about Karma conjunct the 7th house cusp. However, I will take a stab at it. When I look at Karma on the 7th house cusp, in a natal chart, I would think that there may be some sort of work to be done in the area of relationships/partnerships, a sort of balance would be needed in this area. I would also look at other aspects involved. I tend to believe in Karma as something we take action to balance, from whatever cause, either extending from this life, or a past life. Not all believe in past lives, so I think each person has to sort out how they look at karma in their own personal way. I don't think Karma falls under good or bad actions. I think it is, maybe, a destined choice, (perhaps arising from an event or circumstance) that we must make, and depending on how we choose to act, or what course of action we take, we are given an opportunity for growth and balance, sometimes in a personal sense, and sometimes in a collective sense. In synastry, I think the connection would say, there is action to be taken between the two individuals to balance out.... for growth and maybe eventually a sense of completion in whatever area(s) indicated. Okay, that's my 2 cents worth ;D Hope there is some food for though here, anyway. ;)A.R.
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Post by Kim Falconer on Apr 29, 2005 0:04:48 GMT
Hi Everyone, Kris, thanks for those observations and experiences. I think Aquarius Rising answered the 7th house connection really beautifully. With your chart ruler (Moon) conjunct Psyche and Cancer rising I feel you are very sensitive, very instinctive. It's a “gift” if we are after intuitive insights and work creatively or in the helping professions. It's another thing when it comes to relationships because these are painful, at times, and the hurts you feel are all the more severe because of your sensitivity. There are pluses and minuses with everything! I get the feeling that asteroid Karma on the 7th, opposite the Ascendant does suggest things to work out in your personal, one to one relationships. We all have that to do, of course, but this may put the focus there a little stronger. Capricorn isn't afraid of the work, though I doubt he likes the vulnerability implied. I need to look at this asteroid more though I would hazard a guess that by house it indicates the area of life that is both difficult and challenging (because there is so much to "do" there) and also potential very rewarding. Does this make sense? Kim
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Post by Kris on May 11, 2005 10:31:19 GMT
Dear Kim,
Out of your well thought of response two issues caught my attention - "healing profession" and "potentially rewarding".
Yes, I must say I am in a healing profession as well. I am an amateur homeopath (where from had it come ? I am practicing for the last 18 years) I cured a number of chronic disorders that were felt incurable by the sufferers. Many of these people approached me very casually, though. Generally, I rush to help the people evenif I am not called for and this tendency won me friends. Over the years, there are many who call me to act as a mediator in disputes. Some people tell me of their personal problems since they are sure that I won't hurt their feeling but guide them out of troubled waters. YES I am very successful on these two counts and this is my SOCIAL LIFE. It is rewarding.
The same approach fails me miserably in the office. People are ready to take help but refuse to reciprocate when I need them. That is why I stress upon asteroid Karma on seventh cusp in capricorn. Moreover, my tenth cusp falls on Aries point. I am destined to come across aggressive people and I am soft by all counts. Asc lord Moon conjunct Psyche in 3rd house Virgo. Sun and Saturn in 5th house Sag (almost on sixth cusp) are weak. Well thought of works plans and strategies fail to save me. Everything looks fine and go fine till the last moment wherein something happens behind the scene and I loose. Many times I think of revolt but it is restricted to my mind only. People in the office tend to hurt me. I attribute this mainly to my professional failures. Over the time I have become very philosophical about my professional growth. I have become a pessimist despite having Sun in optimistic SAG.
Draconic chart suggest my Sun Sat conjunct falls in Aries in my natal 10th house. What is it I have to show the world. By experience I suppose, failures. May be the stress of Aries point instigate my collegues who are under the influence of asteroid KARMA on 7th cusp.
Interestingly, natal Pluto square Sun Sat conunct on 6th cusp. I have no control over professional matters and officials, however hard I try. KARMA is making matters worse. I adapted different approaches in 20 years of professional life. Strangely, the strategy mismatch the event and the mind set of the hierarchy. I quote an example.
Once I was overloaded with work promising me of foreign assignment. After 3 months of hard work, day and night, I was duped without assigning any reason. Disheartened, I found the good pace of my work is the deterrent. Afterall who wants to part with good performers. After a while I gently requested for even distribution of work load. I was then termed as non performer and a sleepy fellow was deputed only to show me that boss can do whatever he wants.
How do you look at it Kim ?
regards Kris
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Post by Kim Falconer on May 12, 2005 1:52:31 GMT
Dear Kris,
Father Bruno Barnhart, a Benedictine monk, once wrote:
"There are moments when one suddenly realizes the sheer cliff that divides our certainty from our uncertainty, the impossible coexistence within us of pure light and every degree and quality of darkness and confusion…our eyes ever so slowly begin to catch a glimpse, to recognize our subtle shadows at work behind the scenes of our creative intentions.”
There is a "sudden divide" that separates the responsibility we can claim for what actually happens in our daily lives and their feeling that we are victims of life’s circumstances.
Where do you stand in that divide? What do you think the attitude you experience at the office means?
Kim
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Post by Kris on May 12, 2005 6:16:34 GMT
Dear Kim,
I could not understand the phrase and that written by you. "They are moments when we suddenly realize..." - When do these moments come ? I have been waiting and waiting for nearly 20 years. And the "divide" - I could not understand what you are talking about.
The influence of tenth cusp falling on Aries point is gigantic in the worldly affairs handled by the native. What does the draconic Sun Sat falling in natal 10th house suggest ? I presume KARMIC struggle for realizing the ambition (Sat) and the Soul (Sun) is consistantly at odds since it's placement is weak in natal chart. It is true provided asteroid Karma significantly connects the seventh cusp- the people we come across. In my case 7th lord happend to be Saturn (a natural deterrent to Asc lord Moon). The influence of asteroid Karma is very strong as it conjuncts 7th cusp. Saturn under the influence of Karma is a worst combination.
Everytime I feel I realized but the course corrections I adapt backfires. I showed high degree of responsiblity in serving the office all through my carrer. Upto 1996 I served an organization where I use to be at the middle of activity always for over 12 years. I use to get direct calls from the top most officials. I saved the office from many a loss of face situation. But I did not get any benefit since I belong to subordinate cadre for whom the promotion avenues are poor. For the same reason I can't take part in important meetings nor could get any opportunity to show outside world that I was the person who actually did the work. All my efforts to revamp the cadre failed. Many a person from cadre controlling side have become big shots banking upon the work produced by me. When I question I don't get any response for they know what they have done to me. I switched the job in 1996 after lot of hesitation.
Here I am not conversant with the work. I had to learn a lot of new things. Terrific work load that is alien to me. I was asked to handle a laborious job that was kept in cold storage for a number of years. I put 3 years of hard labour on it but could not give finishing touch for want of information. It could only be solved with the help of some foreign agency whom I contacted time and again to convince of the support needed. After making all the arrangements, bosses refused to permit the trip under the pretext that "my sole interest is in the foreign trip". In spite of presenting all the work I handled to solve the problem they did not relent. The essentiality of collaboration that was encouraged till the last minute suddenly took backseat. The trip is only for 15 days and there is no dearth of money with the office.
At that time transit Saturn Pluto opposition is just started. Pluto from my sixth and saturn from my 12th. You can imagine the music I faced. Since then I have been facing shock after shock in my official life.
Why is it that I don't have any control over official matters. Why is it that I had to face rough weather all through my carrer. I had a feeling that a couple of good breaks steadies the boat but it never happened. With age SATURNIAN BLISS is catching up.
It is fine to speak in encouraging terms as we do in regular astrological discussions. We speak of applying corrections to our thoughts and actions to promote Soul's growth. I really cann't understand this since we don't have control over the matters indicated by the sign and house placement of outer planets. Similarly asteroid KARMA suggest the finer point in a big picture where we don't have control. One has to handle serious issues that are negitive and draining by nature. The attitude I experience in the office is Karmic. My Soul's growth is philosophical and pessimistic. Nothing helps. That is my experience.
By the by, my vertex at 06 sc 30 exactly sextiles 7th cusp, Karma conjunct. Sextiles bring opportunities, right ? Yes I had lot of opportunities to handle tough and rough people, uninvited though.
regards Kris
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Post by Amoroso on May 15, 2005 16:10:22 GMT
Kris,
I am just an amateur astrologer, but I am curious as to how much Virgo you have going in your chart, especially the dwads. If there is a better than average amount of this energy, I may have a comment to shed some light on your "Karma" experience, especially as it relates to your work.
Amoroso
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Post by Kris on May 16, 2005 8:43:33 GMT
Hi Amoroso,
Nice to hear from you. I am new to dwads. I just read about it and worked on my horoscope. I divided each sign into 12 parts of 2.5 degress each and assigned "dwads sign" to each planet and four corners of my horoscope. I hope I have done it correctly. Here they are:
Sun in SAG is in the dwad of CAP Mon(ASC lord) in VIR is in the dwad of CAP Mer(IC lord) in SAG is in the dwad of ARI Ven in SCO is in the dwad of SCO MAR(MC lord) in PIS is in the dwad of SAG JUP in VIR is in the dwad of LEO SAT(DSC lord) in SAG is in the dwad of AQU Ura in LEO is in the dwad of LIB Nep in SCO is in the dwad of SCO Plu in VIR is in the dwad of VIR ------------------------------------------------------ The corners
ASC in CAN is in the dwad of VIR DSC in CAP is in the dwad of PIS IC in VIR is in the dwad of LEO MC in PIS (Aries point at 359 deg 55 min) is in the dwad of AQU ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Moon, Psyche conjunct falls in the dwad of CAP as also the SUN. I don't find much of Virgo Dwads-wise. What message does dwads project for my official life ?
Thanks Kris
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LeYeL
Full Member
Posts: 45
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Post by LeYeL on May 16, 2005 10:22:10 GMT
Dear Kris, Hello I popped in and your message caught my eye and I felt I had to respond. Please consider I am fuzzy and needing sleep badly, so I hope my post doesn't come across in a negative way. " I really cann't understand this since we don't have control over the matters indicated by the sign and house placement of outer planets. Similarly asteroid KARMA suggest the finer point in a big picture where we don't have control. One has to handle serious issues that are negitive and draining by nature. The attitude I experience in the office is Karmic. My Soul's growth is philosophical and pessimistic. Nothing helps. That is my experience. " I feel for the situations you have lived through and are dealing with. Without going into detail, please know that I can relate very much. I must disagree with the above statement though. We do have control. Even if one doesn't believe that we choose to incarnate when the stars are aligned, to give the most life experiences, strength and advantage to what the soul desires to grow and evolve, we all have control in the choices we make, and how we choose to react when the dung gets flung. I think you have great strength from living through the circumstances you have related. I am sure you have heard the term running into the brick wall? I have.. so many times I feel like I have brain contusions LOL. Then I started thinking well damn this hurts and it sucks big time.. I am smarter than this, I don't need to keep knocking myself on my butt over and over. I can't do anything about what other people do and say, but I can sure do a lot about how I react, and whether that means removing myself totally from the situation, or varying ways of how I think and feel emotionally when bad things start snowballing, that all is my choice. I can say with absolute certainty, if you feel you are going to get screwed over in the workplace, or in relationships, then you will draw those kinds of people to you, or place yourself in their path. May I ask why you are in an office setting like you describe, when you have the skills of healing that you have found joy and satisfaction from for 18 years? People make a living from what you do on the side! With the skills that you have learned in the office, and what you enjoy doing.. why are you banging your head against the brick wall in that crappy office where you aren't appreciated!? I think you are at a very powerful time in your life, you have an abundance of skills and knowledge. Don't you feel like you have earned the right to be happy in what you do for a living? The stars at birth are a blue print of a frozen moment.. (and that moment now moves forward changing constantly) use the blue print but remember you are the architect.. you can create rooms and doorways. If we are born with a mud hut, we can still end up with a mansion IF you desire it and work towards it. And if you don't believe that all you deserve is a mud hut. I can tell you honestly, I sure don't have a mansion yet but I am working on it bit by bit... because I DAMN well deserve it! Hugs to you, LeYeL
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