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Post by jade on Feb 24, 2006 6:06:07 GMT
After all that work and suspense, yes! That would be great. Thanks Kim, your numero uno....
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Post by Kim Falconer on Feb 26, 2006 22:16:44 GMT
Jade,
Thank you for that wonderful delineation of the Demi Return...I think we can feel confident in working with the mean node here. And, it is so inspiring to hear your words and feel the intention so strong and clear.
My experience of writing, and the creative process, is EXACTLY what you describe! The long held dream, the continued effort, the questioning of who I am and what I'm doing...oi! It's a wonder we can keep at it, but yes, your 'stars' are in total support!
Warmly, Kim
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Post by primamateria on Mar 23, 2006 23:26:29 GMT
Hi Legolas, I hope this is right - got on the first go!! Well, what a chart! A few thoughts from me... It looks like a positive 18.6 year cycle for you... something about this chart, perhaps it the asc/dsc and nodes at critical degrees, that speaks of the end of a phase of life where things are 'black and white' or polar, and the beginning of 'equalmindedness'. Looking at outer planets to get a feel for the context of the return - Pluto in 12, sextile Neptune/Moon in 2 says to me that deep unconscious 'riches' surface in relation to self-worth and outer manifestations of this... These are issues regarding scarcity/abundance which have a lot to do with early nurturing and adult abilities to nurture Self. Uranus, also in the second house, but in the intercepted sign Pisces... hmmm, nothing sudden, and as part of a separating grand trine in Water, I would hazard an intuitive guess is part of a slow process you've been going through to surrender up your needs to the safety provided by the Universe and going with the flow of your own vast soul Saturn- will have to come back to the Node itself in the second house and Jupiter on the MC indicates that your inner resources, self worth and actual resources are of great concern in this cycle... capricorn ascendant tends to point towards a kind of gentle inner earthiness and stability, too. I need to keep reminding myself what the Nodes' return is actually a return of/to... the Draconic theme keeps rearing its head - that of the soul's purpose. What are you getting from this chart? I'm going to post this now so you can see it! joy! pm
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Post by legolas on Mar 24, 2006 0:07:54 GMT
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Post by primamateria on Mar 26, 2006 1:55:30 GMT
Happy Birthday Legolas!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
you must be busy celebrating!
Have you had any more thoughts about your NN return Chart?
I have looked for info regarding intercepted signs in return charts but so far nothing has turned up... Amoroso wrote to me a while back that interceptions generally indicate an area of important work for the return cycle (thanks Amoroso x ). What does this say to you about 2/8th house matters?
I'm having some quite interesting NN transit type encounters at the moment - how about you??
Have you read the article about Lunar standstills? It would seem you are born during one - what is the declination situation with your natal chart?
I am off to research some of these aspects a bit and will be back later,
joy and light hearts on your birthday and all year, pm
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Post by jade on Mar 26, 2006 3:15:58 GMT
Yes Legolas.... Happy Birthday....realized it was the 26th there before here.... But many happy returns and blessings for your b-day and nodal return. Wow, an important year for you!! Best with all that and your dreams.... Jade
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Post by legolas on Mar 26, 2006 13:12:19 GMT
Thanks Jade and Prima! Virtual xxx back for the both of you Prima,I am working on it.I have red this thread again and printed out your birth- and nodal returnchart,and reading the comments of Kim.Really want to take time to get a total picture.It is astonishing to see that the AC is on the degree of your natal moon.With me my natal IC is on the AC.Have to think about that. Have gave thought to your natal Venus in 10 and now vertex on the same degree in 6:karmic meetings with people in regard of vocation/career in the house of profession? Well just need more time to work on it,to get a total picture:the return chart of the soul's purpose with its houses and aspects in combination with the natal chart. For me personal Jupiter conjuncting the MC was the first thing that draw my attention...so I will be back here. About the Lunar standstill,I missed that,where can I find that? Be well
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Post by primamateria on Mar 28, 2006 10:27:12 GMT
Hi Legolas, just a quick note - www.skyscript.co.uk/lss.html is an article on lunar standstills I'll be back with more tomorrow - yes I agree that the return charts make some astonishing connections back to the natal charts. Its an 18.6 year cycle so they're pretty important! blessings, pm
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Post by primamateria on Mar 31, 2006 0:37:06 GMT
Hi Legolas what you wrote about the Vertex in the degree of my tenth house venus sounds about right... I do seem to be in a better position to 'network' and meet people now, but that could also be the two eclipses to my MC/tenth house, including this last one on Venus/Chiron. Never sure about the potency of the Vertex... have read articles on it and kept an eye on transits to this point in the natal but so far nothing startling has occured, ditto synastry. wow, your natal chart is amazing... did I mention that my younger sister has 0 libra rising, pluto in 12, Uranus in first, and Chiron in 7th.. also Mars in Sagg, in the third! She is really the most monumental person I know. A great combination of being completely stable, but nobody knows what she'll be up to next. Pluto square is darn tough on her though... difficult to get to the bottom of all that 12th house stuff and purge any of it. She and I laugh about my Uranus on her Ascendant... ouch ;D ... miss that falling down silly and floppy laughter! How huge are relationships for you?? With 0 aries NN and DSC, and 0 Libra rising with Jupiter it must be quite a dillema at times - the need for independence vs the need and drive towards being part of a couple. Am I wrong? Perhaps it is easier for you to be equitable about these things? My own Libra moon keeps reminding me about keeping things balanced..... now where are we at with the Nodal Returns?? ah, yes. Saturn... with Cap rising Saturn has to be key... there in the seventh.. conjunct Mars! This says to me 'merging of creative, socially outgoing energy with authority and leadership' looks ideal for being a teacher! Funnily enough my daughters' school teachers are a bunch of Leo suns - they really love being with the kids and relate to them very well, on their level. What are your thoughts? joy, pm ps. I agree that its better to take time on this.. I'm not going anywhere right now, so no rush
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Post by legolas on Apr 3, 2006 12:21:15 GMT
Hi PM,
Just a quick reply here. At the moment I have a toothache,which unables me to think well. Quite some simularities between me and your sister. Pluto is tough on me too... Means your Uranus is on my Ascendant too. Wish I could go further into the returncharts ,but it is just impossible right now.Soon as the pain stops I will be back here,so it will take some more time,but now you understand why.
Be well and 'see'you later...
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Post by legolas on Apr 22, 2006 15:43:18 GMT
Hello there,Prima! I hope you are still up to looking further into our nodal returns.First I would like to highlight some things out of our natal charts and try to see how that works out in our NR charts.I would like to use other astrologysites and astrologybooks,and hope you will to,to see if we can have better insights in both our natal charts as well as the nodal return. Please,everyone here on this forum feel free to comment about it! I would like to start with one thing we have in common,but than again so different! I have a conjunction Jupiter/Uranus on the AC in Libra,you a slightly more wide conjunction on the IC in Virgo and Libra. This is what Kathryn Cassidy writes about it on her website: collaboratingwithfate.blogspot.com/ : At the tense angles he notes ‘The urge for independence and the love of freedom’. Personally I only view these as negative manifestations if they are acted on in an impulsive way. I do concur though, that at the extreme, we may witness sudden uprisings and revolutions of a rebellious nature. This is what Mellie Uyldert told me about it,when visiting her for help: Uranus just below the AC makes that you have a strong intuition;very remarkable for a man!,and this is what she writes in her book:Astrologie 2,Aspekten about the conjunction between these two planets,as an example!She says to be very careful about this,because it can work out in many ways(and we know ofcourse,what house,what sign,what level,what are the other aspects with the planets involved,which ruler of what house etc.).So,as an example,for understanding: these people are used for testing new methods.It depends on how the aspects of these conjunction are if this is more favourable or unfavourable.Often they suffer damage to their health because of too strong radiation,that is not only killing the virus that makes these people sick,but also their own strength for recovery.They have a blind faith in the group they belong too and are going with them unnoticed,obeying and silent. It is also possible they bind themselves to a genious,or a celebrity,whereby they vanish into nothing.They only represent the group or the genious.They speak his language and special terms,what gives them a certain distinction at the side of the public.In her introduction concerning these two planets,she writes: Jupiter is:belief,ethics,sense of justice,education,helpfulness,optimism,generosity and hospitality,healing power,tendancy for game of chance and sports. Uranus is:reformation,reorganisation and renewal,intuitive consciousness and revealing the truth,inventions,international and cosmic awareness,naturalness,companionship,and electricity,radiation,rhytm. Their combination gives new directions in believe and religions,in education and jurisdiction and welfare work,in medical science and social organisations.These directions are held mostly by intuitive awareness and sense.We both have the planets R.You have got the ruler of 9(foreign countries) in 4(where you live).You were born in Australia and now living in the UK right? Anyway,what Kathryn says is true for me:the love of freedom,and what Mellie says:belonging to a group is very important to me,I hate being an Einzelganger,I would make a lot of compromises belonging to the group of friends I have,but with Pluto squaring Pluto for me it is difficult,an enormous struggle:the collision of truth and compromising,finding a way of the responsibility I feel without being separated from my friends.The knowledge I have about health and the dreadful society:how can I change things for the better without alienating from my friends?Besides that,I now am a bachelor,but I will never be happy being alone,I really need a girlfriend to live for,wanna be completely honest about this,I am far from happy right now!What does make me happy right now if I am among my friends,both female and male,feels very good! Okay Prima,now it is your turn.What do you feel by the Ju/Ur conjunction?Is it also important for you belonging to a group?And what do you think of these planets being so close to the IC,how does that work out for you?And the relation with the signs Virgo and Libra? I would like your insights about this before relating it to the NR.Hope you agree to this approach for me,because I tend to be bossy with Sun in 7,but I like this slow approach,taking a few things at a time and than slowly working towards the total picture.If I would take it as a whole right now,it would not help for me,would not see the forest through the trees!
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Post by primamateria on Apr 24, 2006 3:25:21 GMT
Hi Legolas - its good to see you back here again! I'm sorry I missed this post yesterday in amongst all the Return action around here! Jup/Uranus. OKAY! I've not really separated out Jupiter and Uranus from the cluster because of that line of energy which zaps down from Mercury through Pluto, Jupiter, SN and Uranus and up to Neptune. Its kind of a 'processing point'. But I do have some thoughts on it. I think even as recently as introducing myself on this board I've said that growing up I had an 'eccentric but movie-star gorgeous mother' and an 'absent genius father'. The cluster we're discussing certainly relates back to Dad - he has appeared to be very much a blend of Jupiter-Uranus: mostly absent but appearing at intervals during my childhood during which times I felt very much his 'little princess'. Like most 'father's daughters' for a long time I went way out of my way to please him (which of course is a futile effort) often making really dumb decisions for myself in the process. Then in the fallout I hated myself and wore a hair-shirt with the words 'fuck-up' on it written in blood (not really - I'm just dramatising another trait I put down to that cluster). Mystic Medusa joked to me that I should have had a bomb shelter in my childhood (I'm always joking about building one because of all the electrical disturbances that seem to follow me around). It has taken me a very very long time and a LOT of work to take this part of myself 'back' and not project it out onto others - that is to say, the Pluto - Jupiter - SN - Uranus that was an unstable, stormy and traumatic childhood, as well as being one adventure after another, a big lesson in surviving change and actually very interesting - is now an aspect of myself that I'm learning to love. And everything I thought was 'happening to me' (that I was a 'victim of') is simply my version, seen through my 'filters' and perspective - now that I can own it, it no longer has the power it once had... oh that South NOde right in the mix has meant that I've lost a lot of energy to the past. But I'm HERE now. Eric FRancis says that planets retrograde indicate aspects of us that we 'switch off' in childhood - usually for survival reasons. This could be true in my case, and I'm only just 'switching on' again since I left my ex-husband three years ago. (which is when my electical disturbances started). In answer to your direct questions - I did move to the UK when I was 17 to finish my dancing training - Dad put me into a performing arts school there at tremendous expense - and returned to Australia in 1993 when I had my first child. The ninth also rules religion yes? Wow did I have a crazy religious upbringing?!?! My mother converted to Catholicism from the 'Spiritualist' church (which you may not be familiar with as its a bit obscure and occult - they talk to ghosts) at age 13, with fantasies of becoming a nun - after she and my father broke up she became utterly devout and we were in church several times a week. Later she found the 'Charismatic Catholic Renewal' (where they have tambourines and dance around during very Catholic ceremonies!) and then became a 'born again Christian'. Suffice to say I can still quote the bible! Yeah, with God as my Heavenly Father playing such a huge role its true that my actual father also took on a bit of a 'godlike status'... which meant that I did have some very strange ideas of what actual mortal men should be like! No doubt you can tell that now I've broken away from the church I have well and truly broken away! Like a lot of women who found that faith in a patriarchal god doesn't reach the parts it should, for a long time I rejected it completely - so of course it has taken an effort to breach the gap between the philosophies I've adopted as an adult and the God of my childhood. There are parallels to this all over the place. thinking about whether I need to belong to a group or not... not in this sense, no. I mean, yes, I need people - I'm not good with loneliness either, but I have four children so its possible I've created my own tribe to ensure that I'm not truly alone. HOwever - there are many things I need to be alone to do well. Ninth house things! I'm alright, too, with not having a relationship/partner for the time being - which is a new feeling to me. Whether or not it will last is another matter entirely! But I've never been the type to go from one relationship to another as a matter of need. Yes I do have a tremendous need for freedom - actual physical freedom - freedom of expression - freedom of spirit. In fact I have this knack for escaping definition - anyone who ever tries to label me, put me in a category or box finds me a bit of a slippery prospect - there's that aspect to mercury! I would've made a brilliant spy I became so good at reinventing myself on the spot. Ah, I am more grounded than that these days, more secure about who I am so I don't need to struggle in other's nets. (have you looked at the Sabian symbols for your conjunction? - 1 uranus is A BUTTERFLY PRESERVED AND MADE PERFECT WITH A DART THROUGH IT - spooky!) Hmm. I sympathise with your stuggle through the Pluto square... its worth it though, to work through the issues that Pluto is showing you. I wonder if sometimes the things about ourselves that we most want to hang on to - those things we believe are 'fundamental' - are the ones that Pluto will target and destroy. (if you want to talk about it PM me) Pluto is squaring my Jupiter now - showing me things I really believed were OK... there are no illusions left when Pluto is through - thats for sure. NOw Virgo - Libra. hmm. I must say this hadn't occured to me before... Libra is most definitly about relating -- and has two faces I've found, although not as fickle as those fish! There is a sense of what is 'right/just' which contrasts with Virgo's idea of what is 'perfect'. Its worth thinking about how the two interact isn't it? Especially with Jupiter's tendency to 'grow' things and Uranus' gift of revelation. I'm thinking that some of my ideas tend to be a bit forceful (although too abstract for most people) - yes, sometimes the hugeness of what I see can be overwhelming and I find it hard to make 'baby steps' towards any solution/goal/outcome. Big leaps from one idea/concept to another, and finding connections and patterns between them. I'm going to go away and think about this 'group' thing - with Saturn in 11 there is a tendency to withdraw, but having said that I really want to work with groups. So I hope some of this answers your questions - I'm OK with going slow with this, but where do we go from here? I'm thinking about looking at the nodes themselves - I've talked a bit about the south node here - Yours is in there with your Jup-Uranus too - what do you think this means for you in practical terms, being on your ASC? Also - what do you think your NN in 7 is about? Do you feel that you have a 'double or nothing' life because your Draconic Chart is the same as your Natal? bless, pm
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Post by primamateria on Apr 24, 2006 9:56:40 GMT
ps. was contemplating the nature of Uranus-Jupiter - and its connection to 'storms' when I received news that my sister and her daughter are evacuating Darwin before Cyclone Monica hits today (am still watching the news on that one) which is said to be a category 5 storm - most cities are only built to withstand cat. 3 and under. Well, Uranus in Pisces strikes again! blessings, pm
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Post by legolas on Apr 24, 2006 16:48:32 GMT
Hi PM!
Where do we go from here?Well,that really doesn't matter to me,as long as we do not take the whole chart(or two charts with the NR) in once,than I am lost.Just highlighting some things out of our natal charts to see what is similar/different and through questions and thoughts slowly working to wards the total picture!
Yes,Ju/Ur really belongs to that cluster with you,don't it!That Pluto there is really making a difference I think(and a lot of other placements). "growing up I had an 'eccentric but movie-star gorgeous mother' and an 'absent genius father'. The cluster we're discussing certainly relates back to Dad - he has appeared to be very much a blend of Jupiter-Uranus: mostly absent but appearing at intervals." I think this is a striking description of both your mother and father and Ju/Ur!And it fits very well,while it is in the 4th house.The 4th house as parents! According with what I have red about this,4th house can be parents,or by day birth only the mother and the 10th house the father,looking to the personal traits of them.Of course there is also the moon and sun as respectively mom and dad,but mostly this is not the description as there persons. In my case I have Capricorn on the 4th house cusp,a traditional way of raising and that is correct! "The ninth also rules religion yes? Wow did I have a crazy religious upbringing?!?! My mother converted to Catholicism from the 'Spiritualist' church (which you may not be familiar with as its a bit obscure and occult - they talk to ghosts) at age 13, with fantasies of becoming a nun - after she and my father broke up she became utterly devout and we were in church several times a week. Later she found the 'Charismatic Catholic Renewal' (where they have tambourines and dance around during very Catholic ceremonies!) and then became a 'born again Christian" Aquarius on the cusp of 9 and its ruler in the 4th house.Non-traditional religions related to your mother and your upbringing! I am baptized and went to Christian schools until I was 18.But never went to church.My parents did because in their time it was a tradition,but they stopped with that.My mother said it this way:"what the preacher says is his opinion,not anyone others.I don't agree and so I am not going to church anymore".So religion does not play a part in our family,and there is no frustration of what anyone beliefs,nor there is the theme playing a role of the "patriarchal" God.Even going to Christian schools this has not played a role,there was not much emphasis on religion,but on education. "thinking about whether I need to belong to a group or not... not in this sense, no. I mean, yes, I need people - I'm not good with loneliness either, but I have four children so its possible I've created my own tribe to ensure that I'm not truly alone. However - there are many things I need to be alone to do well. Ninth house things! I'm alright, too, with not having a relationship/partner for the time being - which is a new feeling to me. Whether or not it will last is another matter entirely! But I've never been the type to go from one relationship to another as a matter of need." A huge difference here!I don't have children!But I do not think that children and friends can be compared.So maybe there is something to be found in my chart that explains the need for belonging to a group.Maybe it is Leo at the 11th house cusp or the transition of Saturn to my 11th house cusp,but it is a very wild guess.Like to hear what you think about it. About relations:I am not going from one relationship to another.Before I lived together for 10 years,there was my first love,which was the best thing ever happened to me.And after that period till the period I started living together I had absolutely no need for a relationship,to busy exploring the world!But living now I know I would not be happy being alone the rest of my life. Ninth house things,you have to explain that.
About the sabian symbols,I am familiar with that,and also with the symbols of Janduz,a French clairvoyant.Will come back to it,very interesting!(will look up your AC degree,it can reveal very much,it did to me!)
The nodes,maybe Kim or anyone else can help here.Giving some examples about the SN with Ju/Ur,for me in the first,for you in the 4th.I really cannot say something about it,because really have no idea!
So PM,hope you will answer some questions here,and work out this Ju/Ur placement and the nodes.Hope Kim forgives us in first working out the natal placements here,before going to the NR!I have a feeling I already learned a lot here!
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Post by primamateria on Apr 25, 2006 13:02:14 GMT
dear Legolas, hey we are making fine progress... ... maybe there is something to be found in my chart that explains the need for belonging to a group. Maybe it is Leo at the 11th house cusp or the transition of Saturn to my 11th house cusp, but it is a very wild guess.Hmmm. You have Libra rising - a very strong need to relate to others, and with Jupiter-Uranus and South Node there this is amplified... but I gather that your 'groups' are not 'ordinary'? This will be the telling feature - what kind of groups are you most attracted to? Do you collect beautiful, talented people? Do you hang out with very intelligent individuals? Leo on the cusp of 11 may well be the culprit - the lion is quite a social beast but only wants to be the center of attention - is that you? And Leo is attracted to creativity... think about it. Saturn in 11 is said to be 'lone wolf' energy, or 'authority' in the community. (to a certain extent one engenders the other). Ninth house things,you have to explain that.aw, things I like to do alone - anything spiritual, mediations, rituals etc; travel - I went overseas when I was only 17 and loved that feeling of complete freedom and anonymity - I never wanted to come home, overstayed my visa a couple of times (ooh I'm a bit of an outlaw aren't I?) - only a crisis brought me back here; study - I always prefer solo work to group exercises which are expected to produce finished work, although I enjoy group activities as a prelude to doing solo work; hmmm what else is a ninth house activity? I guess this is where I expand my comfort zones - and I like privacy to do this, and don't like having to negotiate with others in order to do what I have to do. Apparently I'm an introvert, ha ha.. eventually I'll have to transcend this too Giving some examples about the SN with Ju/Ur,for me in the first,for you in the 4th.I really cannot say something about it,because really have no idea!OK I've just noticed that your south node is on the 12th house side of your ASC - no wonder you're finding it tricky to describe. I really like the description of the Nodal axis that has the head/NN as a kind of 'entry point' for experience etc and the tail/SN as the exit or 'processing point' and everything in between those points falls in with one point or another. So with your dragon's head descending and tail rising - everything on the top half of your chart is 'input' and the bottom half is 'output'. Is that making sense? So work and relationships (6/7th house stuff foremost in this, then 8, 9 etc) are food for your 'souls purpose' and 1st/12th house stuff - are products of it. I'll go way out on a limb and wager that the reason you feel that you'll never be happy without a mate is that your soul needs to relate - without which your identity/dreams/subconscious feels empty. So when you're without a partner who/what fills this role? What happens to the south node end of things at these times? Do you wonder 'who am I now?' and 'who do others think I am?'. Maybe I'm completely wrong about that...? * I'm not comfortable making statements like this about such personal issues forgive me if I'm out of line. some examples of SN in four... for a long time I lived completely swallowed up by my own past... or rather the tragic fiction of the past! My emotional security was non existent and needed it to be fed to me via public opinion...(not that I admitted it!) I lived my life by what 'everyone' thought of my behaviour. I lived in a lot of fear - a kind of psychic/emotional homelessness which often manifested itself outwardly via financial problems and stress over basic needs like food and shelter (of course with Jupiter there I've never actually gone without anything but I really believed that I was at risk). For the past two years I've been working on this - a strong root chakra and emotional stability, disconnecting from 'consensus' and building strong psychic walls to contain my soul...the Pluto square showed me how much a leaky vessel I've been. Yes, my nodal axis is very much about scarcity and abundance (two aspects of the same thing). (I realise that this aspect of myself is very much at odds with my prolific offspring - and strangely connected - as if by forcing more responsibility on myself I became stronger by necessity, or something like that) Hows that? Let me know if I should clarify anything - I'm writing this with children running around... can be a bit distracting! I look forward to working on the Chiron-nodes connection too, another thing we have in common. joy, pm
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