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Post by Kim Falconer on Oct 19, 2005 1:10:13 GMT
Hi Lil,
Welcome to the forum!
Your natal chart has a MC/Leo Stellium to die for, doesn't it??? I particularly like Venus at Cor Leonis—heart of the lion—the astrologer’s star! That’s my Ascendant degree!
Wow.
I quickly ran your Venus return for 2005 and got 10 Libra 07' rising and 11 Cancer 46 MC. The 2nd house is 6 Sco, 3rd is 7 Sag, 5th is 15 Aqu and 6th is 15 Pisces. The Vertex is 26 Aries and fortuna 23.
Everything else should be spot on. The Moon is 12 Aquarius 44.
It looks to me as your technique --though time consuming--is pretty close--only off by a few degrees if that. Certainly close enough to read! (I know astrologers who just read right out of the empheris for the day with strong results!)
I think it's of note that your natal 12th comes to the foreground with Aries and the node ect, as you mentioned, in the 7th. New beginings there!
I'll get back to this as I can. Meanwhile, if you read the guide to return charts on my site, maybe you can go through this one systematically for everyone to follow.
Warmly, Kim
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lil
New Member
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Post by lil on Oct 19, 2005 13:31:47 GMT
Dear Kim, Thanks for welcoming me with your warm respond. Nice to hear that your ascendant and my Venus shares the same zodiac degree. I can feel and highly appreciate your generousity here. Thank you for your quick review for my Venus Return chart. I just wanted to know what is the most catchy in the chart for your (in)sight. I feel something about it of course but somebody else’s insights are can be more important for anyone who trying to delineate a chart for themselves, especially considering I am kind a student yet and you are a very much experienced astrologer. Yes, with Aries in the 7th, certainly new beginnings there: I forgot to mention about my recent Job situation in my last post which is certainly more and more important than the area of relationships for me (oh my natal Leo/MC stellium) in general. I am beginning to a new job which is rather a partnership than an employment with an old contact (Jupiter conjunct natal North Node on the asc of the VR). Actually he is my classmate from primary school. He contacted me a while ago and I phoned him last week out of the blue, then I offered myself while he was complaining about the workload. This not me. This is the Jupiter conj NN(on the Asc) Kim, I am aware of the guide about reading the return charts –which I have been benefited out of it greatly- but my aim was not to delineate the chart here step by step while sharing my Venus Return. Rather I wanted to share my experiences about my recent Venus return year through true life developments. But, since you mentioned it, here it goes: The overall pattern: Splash. This pattern indicates many interests in this Venus year. The problem is the diffusion of energies in multiple areas. Modality: There is no particular one forecoming here. Cardinal and fixed modalities looks equal. Seems there is an initiating energy with a tenacity there. Good. This chart is one step ahead of my natal chart which has an overwhelmingly fixed one. It seems I am initiating and continuing something Venerean this year. Element: Fire! And no earth! (argh) almost the same with my natal. But, the main difference is, there is not much water. Eh, no practicality, but, at least no action colored by feelings either. Those Cardinal+Fire predominancy leads my thoughts to the Aries sign. And Aries falls in the 7th house of VR chart. hmm. Also there is a left hemisphere dominancy but not overwhelmingly. I will mold situations in this Venus year. My environment is acted upon by me, and I put my mark on it. Liked it. Then again, with Mars is in his own sign, in an angular house, makes right hemisphere important too. There is an awareness of others, and the maybe impact of others on me in certain extent. -Mars gets aspects which is both hard and soft. We’ll look at them later. With the southern hemisphere dominancy, which is typified by outward consciousness, seems I am going to driven toward career and public life. There is much involvement with the community and the world at large. Asc Libra with Jupiter there: A very social year with new meetings, lucky beginnings. My attention is on the relationship issues. Optimism, generousity is in the air. There is certainly an expansion in my social circle. With Jupiter conj natal NN; old contacts and fated relationships come to the fore. Jupiter squares MC: All those efforts have an effect on my social status, my career, my ambitions. The quadrant pattern of my chart support the ascendant further: majority of my southern hemisphere planets falls on 2nd quadrant, which is about subjective awareness of the others. VR has a personal planet, Moon here, as located on the cusp of 5th, the house of the self-expression, which is good again. Also, the west hemisphere, although not have any predominacy over east, has an angular Mars in its own sign and NN in 3rd quarter, shows an emphasis on relationships again. This can result in an instinct for successfully working with other people and objective awareness of others. Though Aries never known with this orientation, I may work outwardly with much ambition and I am aware of the need of cooperation for pursuits thanks for the Libra Asc+Jupiter. This Jupiter and Asc falls on my 11th house of friendship, hopes and future plans (according to placidus house system). Again this placement further support the Libra Asc. As a matter of fact, I have no natal planet in 11th and no planet in relationship quadrants either. And, and my NN is so lonely in the house of friendships (I do have friends, always have been but I never work on friendship actively and mostly neglect them). But this year, I read the book of Jan Spiller –Astrology for the Soul-, and decided to work on my weak side. Though I am not consider myself succesful yet, I am willing to continue on it which is so much work required. Here you see in this VR chart that I am certainly working on my NN this year. In my recent Solar Return chart, the ascendant falls also in 11th house. This can’t be just a coincidence, right? –on the other hand, my natal South Node falls on the descendant of the VR chart. What kind of consequences could be expected? A hearthbreak? A fated relationship? I will turn this issue back later. My natal ascendant degree falls on the 2nd house cusp: Self-worth issues come to the fore. Also financial matters, since we are reading a Venus Return chart here and Venus is known as governing monetary issues too. My identity concerns shows themselves through self-worth and monetary issues in this Venus Return. Maybe I will work on monetary issues too? And there is no planet at the either side of this house axis... (maybe Kim would help me about it. Does Venus’ placement and aspects put a light on this?) (Question 1) My natal descendant falls on the cusp of 8th house. Death, transformation, sex, control issues... It sounds not good? Kim? anybody else? (Question 2) My natal Sun conjuncts MC! Seems my ego will shine this year, every one will see me and my will is going to drive my life and my ambition. Considering the Sun as being my natal 10th ruler, oh, my.. I think I AM going to shine! (I love to write those words as someone with all those Leo planets in natal 10th ) Actually, majority of my natal planets falls in the 10th and 11th houses of this Venus Return chart. This configuration attracts the attentions here. Public attention, groups, friends... It looks I am finally leaving my 5 years of voluntary imprisonment in my private office! I will continue later with the aspects, natal transits and the nodes. Kim, anybody else, you are welcomed for any objection or addition. Also I would appreciate if I could get an answer about the 2nd/8th houses axis and my natal asc/desc. Hope I didn’t do much English language mistakes while writing. As you see, my mother tongue is not English and actually way way different than any European languages, so please ignore my mistakes like a wrong choice of word, a somehow awkward style and any other mistakes related to the language. Warmly, lil ps: I put my natal chart here for anyone interested: i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/lilnil/astro/natal.jpg
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Post by Kim Falconer on Oct 19, 2005 22:27:04 GMT
Lil, you've done some great work here! Your English is fine! I have some pressing deadlines at the moment so will have to comment in bits but I can see immediately that you're worries about your natal Asc coming to the 2nd - 8th axis. Tell me why you feel this might not be a creative or positive indication. What do you feel is inherently 'not good' about this axis? I agree with what you said about natal Asc falling in the 2nd but you do have to remember this is a Venus return, not a solar one. The solar return tells us more about “purpose”, the Venus more about shared experiences. When the natal Ascendant falls in the 2nd house in a Venus return, things of value--what really gives you pleasure and peace and happiness--become more important. They STAND OUT over the course of the year. In your socially significant relationship --intimate or business partnerships—it becomes MORE important to have shared values that support and sustain you. Finances still come to mind, shared or otherwise. There is an intense need to get beneath the surface of what money represents--is it power? control? a ways and means of exercising your will? What does money mean to you? How does that relate to what you value? Of course the polarity of the 8th is activated in all this. How do you share your 'money', power, control? You'll be learning about this! How do you deal with those things that are beyond your control? That’s the 8th. Intimacy and all the risk and vulnerability implied is activated as well. With Natal Gemini ruling your 8th, it may be more comfortable or familiar for you to THINK about these things but Taurus on the 8th of the Venus return says now you have to feel them, in the body! It's not about the intellect now---its about sensation--bringing it down to earth. With Venus in the 11th house of 'friends' and Taurus on the cusp of the return, it's no surprise that you have a friend from the past in partnership right now! Does this make sense? Anyone else like to comment? kim
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Post by chrissymgreen on Dec 2, 2005 19:19:50 GMT
dear group,
i have gotten interested in venus returns just recently, and true to my OCD tendencies i've set up charts for 2003 (this was the year i met someone important; i wanted to see what was going on that VR) through 2007.
i saw something in the 2007 chart that looks a little scary.
natally i have an exact square between my 5th house venus (18 aqua) and my 8th house saturn (18 taurus).
in that 2007 VR (which occurs in jan of that year) venus is on the DC applying towards an opposition with saturn in the 1st house.
since i have a tough aspect between venus-saturn natally, how is this tough aspect between venus-saturn in the return chart likely to manifest?
ive been reading 'identifying planetary triggers' by celeste teal and she indicates disappointing circumstances are more likely to arise with this kind of arrangement, she says.
anyways, just wanted to see what others have been through. anyone else have tough venus aspects and had a VR with tough venus aspects mimicking your natal? what kind of return period was it for you? thanks all!
sincerely, chrissy
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Post by chrissymgreen on Dec 2, 2005 22:03:04 GMT
dear group, i decided to go ahead and post my VR for this year. for the record, this has been a TERRIBLE year for me with venus matters. shortly after i had my venus return this year, the relationship i was in that meant a great deal to me ended and it's been pretty devastating to me. i was wondering if someone could help me see how this chart might show this? im just learning how to read these returns... i guess i see a few things - • venus is in the 12th (suffering?) • uranus is in the 1st (transiting venus was only 5° past the return chart uranus when the break-up occured) • the chart ruler is saturn which is in his detriment in the 5th • pluto in the 10th is in the degree of the nodes otherwise i'm just baffled. this has been such an awful year for me, i would be extremely grateful for any help with this. sincerely, chrissy
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 2, 2005 22:37:24 GMT
Hi Chrissy,
To answer your first question, it IS important when natal aspects between planets (like your Venus/Saturn square) are repeated in a return chart. They do come into a sharper focus.
In the case of the opposition, you get a chance to OBJECTIFY your natal Ve/Sa in new ways. This means you can take a step back and see more clearly some of the intense and challenging dynamics in your nature when it comes to Venus and Saturn. What happens in your socially significant relationships? What happens when you create? How important are theses areas of life to you? Why? How do you honor both the need for relationship and the need for self-sufficiency and ambition?
The opposition gives you a chance to experience the natal dynamic in a new way. The chance of greater self-awareness via this position is awesome!
Remember, return charts don't 'create' anything that is not already present in the natal. There can be times of deeper understanding and unfolding though, and I think the opposition coming up will be one of them!
As far as the above VR reflecting your very difficult year relationship wise, at first glance, it doesn't. Venus is accidentally exalted in the 12th (Pisces' house) and the grand Air trine is traditionally wonderful. I realize you did not (are not) experiencing 'wonder' this year so we have to look deeper to see what's going on.
To do that, we have to post your natal chart along side (above or below) this one. Again, nothing is read in the return chart that is not related back to the natal.
Pop the natal up and we'll have a look!
Thanks for your posts, Chrissy, and your openness and honesty.
Warmly, Kim
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Post by chrissymgreen on Dec 2, 2005 22:48:02 GMT
dear kim, thanks so much for your insight! you're such a help. i didn't think about it, but you're right, maybe the answer to this bleep bleep year lies in comparing natal with the return. my natal - thanks so much again.
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Post by chrissymgreen on Dec 14, 2005 19:23:32 GMT
i've done a little more research into my VR for 2005 and i thought i'd share the things i found with you all.
i still dont know why this particular year was so bad for me since the 05 VR doesn't seem all that foreboding. i thought that since venus is my chart ruler that VRs would hold an elevated significance for me, and i figured surely this kind of chart would show a major heart-breaking break-up. anyway, the things i've found do seem critical so i wanted to share.
first off, in 'identifying planetary triggers' by celeste teal (i would definitely recommend this book, it gives great easy-to-understand guidelines, but it is a little limited in that she sticks to the equation that good aspects = happy events and bad aspects = bad events and this seems a little narrow to me) she mentions that
"the very day of the venus return will usually correspond with the surfacing of an issue or event that stimulates the affectionate or emotional nature. a loved one may be brought into focus or there is cause to reflect upon the measure of harmony in a situation. whatever the issue, it is likely to be significantly connected to several events during the return period. seeming rather insignificant at the onset, an issue arising here will sometimes surface for special handling at several intervals during the following return period."
now my VR for 05 was on february 17. the very next day was the day G got home from germany. this seems significant because this is indeed an event that has affected me very deeply this year, heart wrenchingly so. so there's that.
intercepted houses in a return chart are supposed to show areas that are or may be blocked or some such. in my VR for 05, pisces is intercepted in the 1st house and virgo is intercepted in the 7th. interesting since i am a pisces sun and G is a virgo sun. i dont know much about how to interpret this, but i am supposing that a big part of my personality (sun in pisces) is shown blocked in the 1st of the VR (focus on myself blocked in some way, hard to deal with, hard to see myself?) and conversely, the house of partnerships shows virgo intercepted, and i have (natal) pluto in virgo in direct opposition to my (natal) sun. so this pluto part of me (a very major part of my natal, i have a very tight t-square between the sun, pluto, and moon - the moon is the apex), im guessing my subconscious will, my ability to transform, this plutonian side of me, it's shown blocked in the 7th house of the VR. so this is definitely interesting.
i also have noticed that the rising sign in this chart is aquarius 26°. that is pretty close to my natal NN at aquarius 23°. i'm guessing this could indicate a pretty important time, no?
now teal suggests that activity for the VR period can be timed by watching venus' transits to angles/planets/points in the return chart. the angles are considered very important. planets on angles in the return chart are also especially important to look at. if venus happens to be in aspect to the planet or point in the return chart and/or the natal chart, then this elevates venus' transits to those planets or points. oh, and venus transiting the chart ruler of the VR is also important.
so, i've noted 2 very important venus transits, i think. one is that transiting venus hit the VR sun (at aqua 28° in the 1st house pretty close to the AC) on february 24th and this is the very day that G wrote to tell me he had the flu and would contact me after he felt better. this is an important transit, as t. venus is both stimulating an angle of the return, the AC, and a planet on it, the sun. leo is on the 7th house cusp of the return too, making the sun representative of the partner perhaps? anyway, the sun is in aquarius which is in detriment, so maybe my partner wasn't in the best of positions. not sure.
the 2nd is really interesting. the day transiting venus made a direct opposition to the intercepted vertex in the 7th, at virgo 14° was march 9 and THAT'S the day i got a letter from him telling me he could no longer continue a relationship because he was too depressed, having too hard a time of it (he has a bunch of neurological disorders, AS, OCD, anxiety problems, ADD, so on). this seems really significant...
anyways, that's about it.
sincerely, chrissy
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 14, 2005 23:34:43 GMT
Hi Chrissy,
Thanks for sharing this.
Yes, as outlined in my article on reading return charts, you do plot natal planets and points around the return, and then return planets around the natal. Primarily, this shows us what natal planets (your NN) are rising in the return and what return planets are rising in the natal. That is a valid and important way to read these kinds of charts.
Your NN rising says something about the need to created a balance this year particularly in your nodal axis and in the natal houses they occupy. With the NN rising, the scales tip a bit towards you developing yourself in context with the world as opposed to you in context to relationship. A relationship that has been holding you back in some way (even if it doesn't SEEM like it is) may vanish!
VR Jupiter rises in your Natal chart and I know it hasn't felt so 'jovial' a year, even if the indications are such! I suspect your main, overriding factor is transiting Neptune to Venus...the loss, the disillusion, the feelings of angst and separation--deception--even are so strong in this transit that the events in the VR seem paled by contrast.
The only thing that you can 'do' with Neptune is trust the process. If you can cultivate faith in the unknown future, letting go of all expectations and assumptions, this experience, though painful, will transform you. Things have changed for a reason, though that reason may not be immediately clear.
Would anyone like to share their experiences of Neptune transits to Venus? What has it been like for others? Did it seem to supersede all other considerations at the time?
Warmly, Kim
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Post by chrissymgreen on Dec 15, 2005 21:46:15 GMT
kim, you're totally right about that neptune-venus transit. it's been kicking me in the keister for quite some time now!
maybe it's been such a big deal for me because venus is my ruling planet, and also because neptune stationed on my natal venus back in mid to late february, right around the time this whole ordeal started for me.
also pluto has been getting closer and closer to my natal moon. ugh. ive been through the wringer.
anyhoo, yea, anyone else have anything to share about neptune-venus transits! id be ever so grateful.
sincerely, chrissy
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Post by Juliet on Dec 16, 2005 1:21:29 GMT
Hi! 2004 was an Annum Horribilis (quoting Queen Elizabeth II) in love for me... Progressed chart had a Saturn-Venus conjunction, Solar Return too, conjunct the ascendant, and Venus return had its ascendant on my natal Saturn on 8 deg Sag! This theme was further reflected in a transiting Saturn through my 7th and Cancer, never a nice and easy time, since natal Moon and As are Cap. Basically four charts telling the same, scary.... and beautiful and spiritual... It was quite awful, lonely, full of panic, but in hindsight (always hindsight) it gave me a lot of insights about my role/essence of being female, about what I seek in relationship and what not, so I recognize a lot in what you state, Chrissy! Also I made a very realistic financial budget, learnt to be a big girl,and stopped pretending financially I was still together with my ex= lots of bucks rolling in each month. About Neptune-Venus: The only thing that you can 'do' with Neptune is trust the process. If you can cultivate faith in the unknown future, letting go of all expectations and assumptions, this experience, though painful, will transform you. Things have changed for a reason, though that reason may not be immediately clear.
Would anyone like to share their experiences of Neptune transits to Venus? What has it been like for others? Did it seem to supersede all other considerations at the time? At the time my idealized and passionate relationship ended in January/February 2005, tr Neptune was trining natal Venus. This aspect gets great press, but it awoke giant expectations of renewal of the relationship in me that could only lead to further disappointment! Neptune retro (and around Chiron, a planet I relate very strongly to, which trines my natal Venus, but squares the Nodes and opp Uranus in 7) brought further devastation, but also the question: what is it in me to seek out this thing, what are my beliefs about meaningful relationships?? Intuitive Investigating. The pain felt as if my skin was ripped off at times. Sorry for being so descriptive. Direct Neptune is nearing that same trine with natal Venus again now, and it seems expectations have lost a lot of their grip on me, I can let myself flow on an more or less Piscean trust in the ways of the universe and I feel a lot better and healthier! My belief in unconditional love and giving, giving, giving has gone, and I seem to attract more conscious, emotional more independent people. As friends only, up till now!!!! Which I do not regret. This Neptune theme was aggravated (and helped, since I started questioning my own beliefs) by tr Jupiter on natal Neptune in 9, and transiting that house, starting around October. The house where it is home. I've developed a rather big and 'agressive' aversion to symbiosis during this 'last part' of this whole process. I feel very deeply that I do not have to earn (daddy's???) love by being a very good girl. I feel very responsible now about what I attract, for my own emotions and to myself. Jupiter will conjunct NN/MC in January, and the Neptune-Venus trine will be more or less exact then; wonder what will happen then?? I can honestly say expectations of everlasting fulfilling love have gone now, (sticking up their heads once in while, of course, but I can see them for what they are) but I would very much like to meet a mate, a good companion! Which felt like a dirty little secret before late summer, and by far not interesting enough! SR 2005 (almost same as Venus return 2005) has Venus-Jup conjunct in the first, trining Neptune, and Venus finally separating from Saturn in earnest in the Progressed. Venus return: Venus-Jup conjunct in 5, and Saturn conjunct Leo Moon in 3, but as a Cap Moon I feel at home with Saturn-Moon conjunctions! Have them in synastry with lots of good friends. I do love Chiron! My best love/sex experiences happened on Venus square and opposition events to Chiron! But introducing that fourth actor in this thread might be a bit too much!! Blessings, J
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Post by samina on Dec 30, 2005 3:19:29 GMT
Very interesting thread! I've never calculated my VR before -- Kim, would you be willing to calculate the time for me using your software program? My natal Venus is at 27Gemini31, 17 seconds.
With so much Venus activity going on right now in my chart, I think taking a look at my VR would be particularly insightful!
Thank you! samina
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Post by samina on Dec 30, 2005 3:58:55 GMT
Kim, I seem to have calculated my VR pretty quickly, without too much trial & error -- perhaps you're own calculation can confirm whether I have the time right: 01-Jun-2005, 9:06am, EST (+5), with 10Leo11 on the ASC.
There are currently three relationships with various influence in my life right now, and I found some interesting placements for all three, but by far the most compelling placements were found--yet once again--by "C", the gent who's taken pride of place in my recent synastry/composite explorations.
It's fascinating to see where these men's natal planets fall within my Venus Return.
I looked to see where my natal planets fall in the VR, but do you guys also look to see where the VR falls natally??? Which offers the most valuable perspective?
samina
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 30, 2005 6:18:58 GMT
Yes, (as per my article on reading returns www.nrg.com.au/~d-falcon/Returns.htm you place the Natal planets into the return chart, then back (return to natal)...it's a transit chart, remember, a frozen moment in time that 'lasts' until the next return. I'm happy to double check for you but I need your natal data to calculate a return chart--do I have it on file? Email me otherwise (or post) and we'll get the exact chart for you. Kim
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Post by samina on Dec 31, 2005 21:11:10 GMT
Thanks Kim! Here's my natal data: 6/21/1964, 1:28 EDT, Wimington, DE. Happy New Year! samina
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