Saturn does not equal bad luck!

[svenskasfinx]

Hello there all,

Hopefully we can use this thread to go on about Saturn, in a constructive way as opposed to a complaint thread.

I will begin!

On my Saturn return, things were upside down! Then it happened, I fell in love...Strangely enough the one I fell in love with had a Venus contact to my Saturn in the 11th house by conjunction. (also my Vesta ) I guess some people can call it a dampening influence, but I think it helped us in that moment to decide what was IMPORTANT, a good lesson for anyone.

I shall end my Saturn testimony here.

Just thought I'd shed light on Saturn as a lasting influence rather than a malific one.

Thanks so much,

svenskasfinx

P.S. I'm glad I'm in good company.. today is an Eros transiting my Moon and my husband is coming home tonight from his last work related trip to Budapest.. and we plan to go, some time in the spring... hurrah!!!

[Juliet]

Hi Svenska!!
And how did the relationship turn out??

I share the exact same synastry aspect, also in my 11th, with the guy I love, but avoid like the plague. The love feels very binding, Saturn is conjunct the composite NN. The Venuses of two of my best friends conjunct my 11th house Saturn too! My feelings for them do not scare me, so no fleeing there!!

Take care, Juliet

[svenskasfinx]

Juliet said:

"And how did the relationship turn out??"

Well it has its "ups and downs" but its what I call quite enduring so far, in spite of my bad points, and his (yes we have them and they are probably Mars related) but I still get the impression its a good match, even still.

Thanks for your question and contribution to this thread!

Those Saturn friendships do seem to be the ones (if people are compatable) that are for the most part, enduring. It always seems that way..but I'm not really a "Saturn person", and my husband/my best friend (when his selective hearing is not in operation) is actually more of a Jupiter person (in the first house conjunction Moon in Cancer and Psyche) But I get the feeling that the addition of Saturn helps us become more fulfilled with duty and also grounds us in some way..

I mean I understand enthusiasum.. but without the depth of Saturn, Jupter gifts are also quite intangable.

I think LunarScorp said something about that. But I don't recall which thread.

Take care,

svenskasfinx

[chrissymgreen]

dear all,

i guess i have to admit to not having the highest expectations of saturn in synastry in the past, but i have to admit as i've gotten a little older i'm realizing how important saturn is to me - with mars in capricorn and saturn in the 8th, i'm usually very physically attracted to very saturnian types.

in the past year i've been seeing someone whose (as i've just discovered!) AC/DC axis falls on my saturn - my saturn is in his 7th house conjunct his DC and opposite his AC. he's somewhat of a saturnian figure himself - his saturn falls in his 10th house, and he has juno, ceres and his anti-vertex in capricorn.

like kim has said to me, in synastry saturn aspects can really add stability, especially if there are a lot of uranus contacts between people (and i have those, natally and with my partner, who also has them). it's hard to remember this when we always hear such bad things about saturn. actually, saturn can be quite sexy, in my opinion.

great thread!


sincerely,
chrissy

[Kim Falconer]

Oh, the glorious, exquisite, agony and ecstasy of Saturn/Venus contacts in synastry.

I have had many.

Evangeline Adams called Saturn/Venus contacts in chart comparisons “the sign of eternal friendship”!

Well, she may be right, though it comes with a price.

Everything about Saturn comes with a price, yet if we aren’t willing to pay, what does that say about our “spine”, the backbone of who we are?

I do think of something “meant to be” when I spot Saturn/personal planet contacts between people. The only question is, WHAT?

What is meant to be?

And YES, Saturn has a lot to do with sexual attraction. It’s awesome in this, because when Saturn is evoked, so is our Shadow. You wake up the unconscious and you are surly going to fall in love (unless, of course, you are repulsed!) We can long for the other in inexplicable ways, because it seems they carry a key to our own Self. And if Saturn is involved, then I believe they do!

I don’t take attractions seriously unless I see a strong Saturn contact, particularly to the Sun or Venus. (and also Moon, Mercury, Nodes (Yes, Juliet, those Node contacts are VERY significant) Mars and angles.

Has anyone ever had an important relationship that did NOT include such contacts?

This would be interesting to test!

Let me know!

Kim

[svenskasfinx]

Hello again!

After reading Kim's Eros essay on long term relationships I am inspired to write something about Saturn/Eros contacts.. yeah I have that too. His Venus, my Vesta/Saturn in conjunction but in opposition to my Ceres/Eros conjunction.

His Eros squared mine, his Saturn square my ascendant and those planets around there. His Saturn/Chiron conjunction conjunct my Medusa opposite my Uranus/Pallas/Pluto conjunction-- (but it seems to work with his Eros/Vesta conjunction at the end of Cancer --

Same Ascendent gives the clue to how conflicts come and how they are resolved..its obvious we see each other as we see ourselves. (who doesn't basicly nag one's self with expectations? who doesn't let things slide when they don't want to be bothered? this is the problem of being very Ascendant oriented and living inside each other's 12 house.

I guess it can be very comfortable there sometimes and at other times, all too much. Big bad Saturn does us both a good turn though, it keeps us in control.

...just thinking again.

svenskasfinx

[Kim Falconer]

I had two long-term relationships in the past with men who shared my Ascendant sign, one actually within one degree. At that time in my life, I used them as hooks for my own “extravert” projection. With Leo rising, all that fire had to go somewhere and it certainly, in those years, not coming out in me.

So, I projected it onto them. Eventually, I competed with them for my own power. It was an effective process for psychic growth—not real great for love and security. Actually, it was pretty aweful.

There were strong Saturn contacts with them both, in different ways (one Saturn/Venus and the other Saturn/sun)

I think the Saturn kept us together in spite of the excruciating growing pains…until finally there was nothing left to…well, just nothing left.

I know it was time well spent, though I hope I never have to do it like that again.

Saturn requires hard work to get to the gold and this was certainly the case then!

Memories

Kim

[svenskasfinx]

Interesting information Kim!

I often worry if the ballance gets broken, and there is only one person fulfilling the household duties/child thing, what's going to happen..?

He on the other hand expressed his concerns long before we even decided to move in together about being the only one earning any income and would he feel the need to take on another job due to the fact we would be so poor and I would be so careless with his money. (this did not happen obviously)

When people are obviously living inside the other's fears it can colour the way you percieve them, and for me it feels as though if there were no outside influences and more of a ballance going on, everything would be perfect.. but when you get involved with someone you get involved with their family (or at least it seems I do) too as well as their friends (even if they don't see them very often) two mixed blessings.

I wish relationships came with warnings about the pitfalls I think mine would be: warning pitfalls over exactly who does what and when are to be expected, also look out for bad talk from the mother in laws on both sides.

I am the one fulfilling the funtion of the "bold one" even though this place does make me more cautious about how I say things, or what I say at all. Then there is our son, the worst point of conflict of all. Everyone will get involved with how things should be done, especially if you go against the "norm". I'm still waiting for this to blow over.

I hope that the future for everyone is a lesson worth knowing and understanding what is best for ourselves - Saturn lessons or something more-

take care

svenskasfinx

[Kim Falconer]

I think so many mothers have that burden to carry—everybody and their dog wants to tell you what to do!! When to feed, when to put down, when to start pre-school, when to start solid foods—how to cope with tantrums (hint—there is no way to cope with tantrums!!) See, even I just did it.

Everybody puts their two cents in and you just want to pick up the coins and throw them right back.

Funny how Saturn, which rules tradition and parents/authority, links to this “meddling” of the in-laws.

Your 9th house is ruled by Uranus in the 4th and Saturn in the 11th. I am guessing it gets worse if they are near your home and can “drop in.” That would activate your dynamite 4th house! I wouldn’t take them to a PTA meeting either!

Your key, and your husbands is communication. Keep the Mercury’s firing and the feelings out in the open. Once buried, you have to go through Moon/Pluto to get at them!

Richard Idemon (my hero) said that most relationships are 1 plus 1 = 1. He talked about that situation where he says, “hey, you are really good at cooking and taking care of things, so why don’t you keep doing all of that for both of us.” And She says, “Yeah, sure…and you are really good at earning money and fixing cars, so why don’t you be in charge of that.” \

As Richard said, this is great for practical survival, lousy for psychic growth. 1 plus 1 = 1 is a static relationship—Just the opposite of what Eros brings!! (We are back to the post on Eros in long-term relationships!!)

Thanks for you insights.

Warmly,
Kim

[svenskasfinx]

Wow!

Thanks Kim!

(Just thought of something about our little problem.. its basicly She says "You're so good at making money...." and He says "You're so good at cooking and keeping up with the child, and the laundry and you know how to fix things, what do you need me to do? Can't I just relax?" LOL, and then the Mother in law says, "You're so good at everything, can't you just do it yourself and leave my son in peace? Oh, the lights just went out, I don't trust you to fix it, can you call my son and ask him if he can come home from work to help us?" And then She says, " don't worry, I just fixed that too!"

You see?! and then I get flack because my house isn't up to standards and my son gets upset when mamma doesn't have time to play, not that any other mammas I know really PLAY with their children...) opps just had a tantrum there! LOL

Thanks for your tolerance and good advice.

svenskasfinx

[Kim Falconer]

I know how hard that can be! It sounds like you are quite near the in-laws too.

Saturn wants, ultimately, for us to turn to “gold” which is the alchemical equivalent to individuation. He wants us to become complete, whole.

That’s not “perfect”; it is whole.

Somehow, we have to say, “I know you are really good at that, but I want to go out an do it too. And I know you aren’t as capable as me with our son, but, well, here he is and their’s the fridge…I’ll be back in 8 hours!”<br>
Keeping the “division of labour” keeps us from becoming everything we can possible be. Again, it is great for practicality, not so great for psychic growth.

Take it all in “baby steps”, a little thing at a time. Your husband does a bit here in “your realm, and you do a little bit in his. Over time, both of you may learn to trust the other in a deeper way…trust to be more of who you are.

How do others handle this “division of labour” in relationship-especially with strong Saturn contacts?

Ideas? Comments?

Kim

[Bodaciousbabe]

Dear Kim,

Can you describe what some of the things Saturn Retrograde in Gemini might bring up? My understanding is that Saturn will move this way before progressing back into Cancer sometime this spring. Do I have this right?

Happy New Year!
Bodaciousbabe

[Kim Falconer]

Hello BB,

Saturn hasn’t been in Gemini in the tropical zodiac for 2 years, though in the sidereal ephemeris he may retrograde back to late Gemini in Feb/March. Perhaps you are looking at a sidereal ephemeris?

I only work with the tropical, and sometimes draconic.

(Tropical) Saturn is now 25 degrees of Cancer RX and will continue the retrograde motion until the 22 of March (Eq2uinox!) Then there is direct forward motion through the 17th of July when Saturn goes into Leo. He turns retrograde a few times in this sign over the following 2.5 years, the first time on November 23, 2005 @ 11 degrees Leo.

I think this last spate of Saturn Rx in Cancer is giving us a final chance to “get our emotional house in order” before he starts to work on our creative individuation in Leo.

Planets at 20 degrees of Cancer will have the biggest impact. That is the degree of Rx, SD and D!

I’ll look up the sidereal degrees for you tomorrow and let you know, just for the record.

Warm wishes,
Kim

[Kim Falconer]

Hello Amoroso,

I just ran a sidereal ephemeris (the one used by Vedic astrologers and, of course, the Siderealists).

Saturn is now on the AP at 0 Cancer and retrograde. It goes into 20 Gemini on the 3rd of January and turns direct at 25 Gemini on the solstice. (The motion is the same for both (all) zodiacs). The sidereal, which counts the procession of the equinox, is about 25 degrees “behind” the tropical zodiac.

Does this make sense?

Kim

[chrissymgreen]

hey guys,

i just wanted to add a little something.

i've found part of my experience of saturn in synastry to be about letting go - or relaxing, particularly in my current romantic relationship. i know that sounds weird, but it's true. i say this because with my saturn on my partner's DC (plus the mercury, mars, and venus-saturn contacts we have) i sometimes have a hard time letting go and letting things happen naturally. i attribute this to saturn. when this happens, i find the need to get in touch with my aquarian/sagittarian side in order to regain my sanity when i start feeling like i want to control or squeeze tighter in the relationship. it's still kind of early in the game (it's just a year that we've been involved and for 3 months of that he went abroad for an internship), so maybe it's too soon to tell, but i think that's one of the lessons he teaches me continually. i think i help him to be more resonsible in his relationships. kim helped me realize this recently, and i couldnt me more grateful. it fits now!


sincerely,
chrissy