Nodes transits to Chiron

[primamateria]

Hello everyone ;D

been thinking about a phenomena I've witnessed lately, as many people I know have their natal Chiron in early Aries or late Pisces... and the north node has been transiting through this region of our sky.

one thing quite noticable is that this transit seems to turn things around in big ways... my sister, for example - granted she is having an Uranus transit to her Pisces sun - has been going through enormous emotional growth - developments to her deepest sense of identity and has made several changes to her life..

and me... well, as you all know my values have changed considerably, and I've had to let go of ideas of how material things define me as a person....

now I notice that my lover has his Chiron due for NN blessings any minute now (chiron at 27 Pisces) and he seems to be gearing up for something huge... (actually I just realised that my NN is always on his Chiron )

does anyone else have anything to share about this transit?

joy, pm

[gemstar]

Hey Prima-

This transiting NN is coming up to my Chiron at PIS 26. My natal Saturn is nearby at PIS 29 and the only thing I did different was have a big conversation with my love about something which had been bothering me. Though tr Mercury was on my natal Cancer Moon--- it may be due to THAT (emotional discussion) influence!!

Re----transiting NN to chiron. Hmm...I have been looking forward to this but have had a difficult time figuring it out. Tr Pluto has been squaring my Chiron over the past months and forcing me to deal with family issues once and for all so I am not sure if the NN transit will create a bigger event.....

One thing I have noticed (this is located in my natal 5th house), I have been more 'weepy' about my not having children. Chiron in 5th (conj Saturn) can indicate difficulties with having children. It doesn't look like it will be a part of my life (not biologically anyway!)....this pains me GREATLY! Everyone always comments on how great I am with kids...how much I relate to them and have such a balanced approach.

My outlook has changed to one of a "Mother to All". For me, I have the ability to love all children and feel sooooooo deeply, that I can not explain it. This has been like this for me my entire life...(Moon in Cancer). It is such a natural thing for a Cancerian Mooner and it confuses me that I have not been Blessed with becoming the conventional/traditional Mother. So, my view has had to encompass this....and perhaps change to reflect my Life, my past purposes which included mothering my three younger brothers at the young age of 12.....not really the ideal situation to be an 'acting' mother. But, those were the cards I was dealt.

So, perhaps the NN transiting here is creating greater emotional turmoil as I reflect on the unfairness of it all. I see the news and become greatly pained to see so much 'child abuse and otherwise' with parents who are not really worthy of being Blessed as a mother or father. Lately it has been really an intense feeling for me. My need to protect all....to wish for better circumstances....to desire more fairness in these kids lives.

However, I also recognize, that like my own life, these situations shape each of us and make us who we are. My friends who have had more normal childhoods and were much more spoiled/nurtured/supported growing up really lack in many areas because they had so much done for them...they do not handle basic situations too well with their own children. Always wanting someone else to deal with the responsibilities. What is with that??

Everywhere around me, I have been hearing people complain about having children. This one or that one----even random strangers feeling bedraggled because their youngest is ready to give birth to their first child. Yes, things are not always easy with kids---grown or otherwise. BUT, these same people would be lost without their children in their lives (most of them anyway!). I want to remind them of what their life might be without the joys their kids have brought to them. How empty life might be without their children. Ugh. The simple joys seem to be taken for granted all too often in my eyes....

Nearly every conversation with a new person begins with asking me if I have children. When I reply that I do not, there is always an awkward pause and the feeling that I am not part of the Club of having Kids. Almost as if I would have NO IDEA about the issues involved. Of course I do...try having to deal with lots of these issues when you are 12 and in charge of an entire household while your mother stays in her room for years on end....only to come down to re-write a new to-do list each day for when I arrived home from school. (We were a well-respected family no less!!) The responsibility of care-giving etc....household stuff...all of it on my shoulders and no escape. But I do not tell this to people. It doesn't matter....all that they see is that I do not have children and therefore, erroneously believe that I can not relate.

It is a weird vibe to pick up from people.

When I start talking and asking the appropriate things about their kids....relating to the particular age group, THEN they forget I do not have any myself!! It is really comical!! I relate because it helps me connect with them...the things which are important to that person. Later, they may ask what to do about certain situations....and respect that I seem to know more than one would without kids of her own. I get it...I really do!! It is simply painful to not have the opportunity to experience my own biological miracles.

My own mother gets upset with me for not providing HER with grandchildren and gets mad at me because her sisters have a greater number of grandchildren than She. Grrrr.....this past Mother's Day, she let me know how special only the women who are Moms in the world are (implying that those who are not are less than!!)......nice lady eh? It is incredibly mean and also her Scorpionic way of trying to hurt me because she thinks me not having children reflects badly on HER (Leo ASC). Lovely.

So....I detach from it that best I can. Here is a lady (mother) who didn't even call me on my 40th birthday the other week!! (How come she had the opportunity to be a Mom?) Sometimes she calls my brothers on their BDay, but only if it is convenient for her. Oh well....this issue is for Me to release.....and not sink too much energy into....so I try!!

Where NN is now transiting for me-it is the most painful part of my otherwise pretty great chart!! Obviously...Chiron (pain and healing) is involved and of late, it is moving me to believe in myself and gifts more than ever (Tr Pluto squaring here is healing after pain)!! Natal Chiron with Saturn conjunct can be self-limiting and because it squares my natal Sun...this means my father's influence is probably the biggest weight of all for me. He puts me down all the time...gets mad with me that he can not control my actions (even at this age!)....and has a controlled-anger when he discusses anything with me. NN transit is highlighting this a lot lately and tr Pluto is helping me release MY self-limiting fears of disappointing my never-pleased father. Hee-hee...I could be President of the USA and it would be a disappointment to him. It just is. THe weight has dragged me down-even through my greatest triumphs so it is time to let go and no longer wish for something which will not happen. Acceptance is key for me to remember!!

My project of renovating my FOURTH home is really looking spectacular!! I LOVE when friends come over and their mouths drop open....they get so excited and really make me feel good that I am doing what I love and am talented to create!! That keeps me going!! ;D

So....I would say, check your guy's natal aspects to chiron to see what might be brought to the emotional front in his mind.

For me, I do not discuss these things too often..it is just what is on my mind of late and your question brought up my thoughts!!

Gotta love emotions!!

Hugs-
GemStar

[primamateria]

Dear Gem,

wow thats a lot of healing emotion going on!

I don't know if you've seen it or not but there's a great article on Chiron in PIsces here ericfrancis.com/planetwaves/sixties3_chipisces.html

It must be hard to have to constantly counter all the negative surrounding your kid-free status... I have the opposite problem in that when people hear that I have four they say things like "ARE YOU NUTS??" honestly Gem, fertility, reproduction, pregnancy etc are all public property and everyone feels free to express an opinion, no matter how rude.

(I have a very dear friend who was the eldest child of a large family, and so in effect has already raised children, and yet everyone in her family thinks of her as 'not having a life' and so she does double duty of babysitting and caring for aging parents. And she MOTHERS like you wouldn't believe! The woman has saved hundreds of thousands of babies in third world countries through her fundraising efforts, she mentors young women, she's everyone's favourite, a mega-mama)

anyway - it took me a long time but I finally decided not to take it from anyone anymore - the rudeness surrounding my reproductive choices - and now refuse to affirm anyone's statements about them... if this is madness - bring it on!

So Gem, you needn't affirm anyones ideas of 'childless' either.... or even the ones that you've had so far.. is there another way of thinking/believing which brings you more peace?

mothering takes more than one form, as you say - there's more to it than just having your own 'biological miracles'....but do you want a biological miracle?

meanwhile - how very exciting to be renovating another home...

thanks for sharing with me Gem...

I'll certainly be looking deeper into this, for HIS sake... have just noticed his moon is opposite Chiron, as is, of course, that Uranus-Pluto conjunction.

joy! pm

[gemstar]

"So Gem, you needn't affirm anyones ideas of 'childless' either.... or even the ones that you've had so far.. is there another way of thinking/believing which brings you more peace?"

Hey Prima! Thanks for your reply!

Today I gave this question some thought and just do not have an easy answer to give you. The only thing I really hold onto is my idea that I am a Mother to All. Children and adults.

People are well-meaning and I often wonder why people think four or more is so many! Geez....any of us who came from that size of family or larger think it is great! Normal even! The woman I mentioned above who was complaining about how she was not sure kids were a good thing....had 9!!! And it was her youngest having her first baby! WOW! She was not that old...maybe early 50s at best! Now THAT is a large number of children!! Congrats to you for your four....you don't seem a bit cuckoo for all that fun!! ;D

Personally, I like the 'dull roar' of much activity in a home. Four kids would have suited me fine! It amazes me that people would think you are crazy for having four. What is with that? Pure ridiculous on their part!! People can barely handle their own lives anymore much less take responsibility for their children's lives it seems. Perhaps slowing down in life is the answer for them...not questioning others about their fertility or number/numberless of children. There seems to be a certain lack of modest manners and privacy within society anymore.

Look at how the media clamors away to view Tom Cruise and his wife's new child...then 'questions' if there IS a new baby. Just pathetic....I would not show my child just to spite the people who pressure me to do things just because THEY want it within their time-frame! Folks need to chill out, you know??!!

Anyway....I am in a semi-chatty mood today. Less astro-oriented perhaps. My apologies. Still, I believe it is this tr Node conjuncting my Chiron which is stirring up my emotions.

At age 40 now, I am somewhat perimenopausal....yes, early-I know. It does not make me happy to deal with this either. People suggest me having IVF by myself....but that is not my idea of the best scenario. Not for me at this moment. THEN, I have a fear that if I re-marry in the next few years...(POSSIBLE!! My Progressed chart has Venus, Mars and Jupiter all conjunct in my Pr 7th!!!), I am not sure taking such a huge risk and having children now is the right thing to do. The behavioral problems with children of women over age 40yrs seems rather high. Still...I am not sure why this is...could also be a lack of discipline etc....who knows anymore. The health risk to the child is forefront on my mind at this age....(though it can be an issue at any age as well)! Truthfully, I do not know what is around the corner and as I grow older, I seem to understand more clearly that we do not have the control which we think we do!! Isn't that something? You know what I mean....control of events which are not foreseen.....but thankfully, astrology gives us some structure to learn from and use to make the best potential happen!!

Mostly, I feel sad that such a beautiful part of nearly everyone else's life is not a part of mine. Another odd thing....people think that because you do not have children, you do not like kids. Weird eh? (Meaning-that a woman does not have children by choice because she doesn't want the bother!). I worked with a bunch of gals just a few years younger than I and every one of the four had no desire whatsoever to have children. This is not a category I want to be lumped into yet AM sometimes. It can make me feel a bit defensive. (Cancer Moon again).

Overall, most people can not relate to my feelings because they have children. It is very different than being married or not.....you can change that at nearly any time in your life-as many times as you desire too!! Bearing children-well, you are in a time crunch. Men have minimal issues there....but women do not have that luxury.

Well.....things happen in life differently than you expect at times...yet, all for the BEST in the end. There are many ways in which I am Blessed and I appreciate those gifts very much!! Again, I simply wish that parents would really take the time to reflect on their Blessings....and not take them for granted. It is an important responsibility and while may be a lot of work, there are many rewards to be had with your Best Efforts!!

Ahhh....this is simply a tough subject for me of late. I am not sure it is easily solvable. It just is. Most days I handle things well but as the new school year begins in a few weeks, once again I am reminded of little ones who grow up...and wonder why I have to face this challenge of feeling so left out.......

OOOOOKay....I am ready for Node to pass my Chiron.....Sorry---this gets too 'sobby' for me!!!

Thanks again for your sweet thoughts-I appreciate them very much!!

Hugs-
GemStar

[primamateria]

Dear GEm! BIG HUG honey

you're right, as a parent its hard to understand - but I think I do, as someone who has had four miscarriages, there has been a lot of grief surrounding children for me... I know what its like to want a baby and not have one...

having friends that have 'just never got around to it' and then found suddenly that the window of opportunity had closed (not saying this is you Gem) I've sat with them and their outpourings of grief and felt that too...

its womens' grief and sadness and we can share it... and we can share hope too.

Its true, Gem, that you never know what is around the corner - which is why I say - affirm something new about this... if you do want a child you aren't too old, not too late (a naturapath could talk to you about this if you wanted)... in many ways its not impossible... that is the nature of miracles, they come when they come. Make space for a miracle, in whatever form it takes...

love, blessings, pm

[gemstar]

THANK YOU PRIMA!!

Your huge and warm hug was well received across the miles!!

Yes....one never knows and I try my best to trust in the Universe and believe that all will be FINE! It will....everything always turns out well for me in the end...just sometimes I feel a bit pushed to the edge before something great happens!

My mother had a hysterectomy at age 41 due to fibroids and her youngest sister (only 10 yrs older than me) went through the change at 42!! Yikes...they are both in the medical field and my background in medicine also has helped me understand that my time is probably more limited than the average woman. BUT, my mother's mother had a child at age 42 so who knows.....?? Now, the pre-change can happen for 10 years prior so we shall see. Thankfully, I am very healthy, practice yoga and I think physically much younger than my chronological age. My one miscarriage was a blessing in disguise and I am happy that I did not become selfish and force children in a situation with my then-spouse. It would have not been healthy at all. It was one of those things where you sorta 'give something up' (having children at that time) for the greater good. Meaning-though I wished to have children, I wanted to protect unborn children that I might have due to my then-husband taking a bad turn in dealing with his Manic Depression. You realize that it would be selfish to bring children into a chaotic situation and hope for the best in your unknown future.

There have been opportunities to marry others over the past four and a half years....but they were not right in the long run for me. So....I am not one to marry quickly just to have my kids...and if Life has other ideas for me, I will be open when the time comes!!

Overall, I have great hope for many of my wishes in this Life and we all must keep our Spirits up! Having you send me a wonderful hug certainly gave me warmth! Thank you for your kind thoughts and love!!

Special Hugs back to you!!
Love-
GemStar

[gemstar]

Now...back to your man....did you look up his natal aspects to his natal chiron to see if anything interesting might come to the surface??

Hugs-
GemStar

[primamateria]

thank goddess you are so positive Gem...

yes his moon is opposite, as is his pluto-uranus... I have no idea what is going on with him, but whatever it is I am sure to activate it... in fact this morning, after doing my 'VEnus meditation' (its Friday), and finishing with 'I surrender to my greatest good' (for node in pisces) I had a sudden freakish Anger towards him and called the whole thing off! I can't believe I did that!! What is wrong with me - talk about not being able to take my own advice... been making space for miracles... but didn't really think I'd have to shove him out of the way in the process!

keep trying to remember this is my Node Return, and that there is some HUGE lesson here from the Universe.... ah! surrender... surrender to loneliness???

peace and hugs,
pm

[gemstar]

WOW....called the whole thing off. OK. Maybe your deeper 'self' was trying to tell you a few things about the relationship which needed to change.

I do not think surrendering to 'loneliness' is the idea. It is perhaps more about not staying with someone for the sake of being with 'someone/anyone'. Obviously there were some thoughts you had been suppressing about him that maybe you needed to face....and then deal with the results of those feelings. Ending things maybe was your answer for today.

My opinion on surrendering to the powers that be is really based on one's intuition. Sometimes we can not explain our deeper feelings and feel at a loss for words. Our intuition guides us and maybe asks us to TRUST. Trusting without reasoning is not my favorite pastime, however, this seems to be part of Life!!

This guy has his Moon, Pluto and Uranus opposing his Chiron? And with the node conjuncting this as it transits......hmmmm. Are sudden endings with women a part of his past? Although I realize you instigated the ending, does he have a history of anything that you might know which reflects this aspect?

Hugs-
GemStar

PS-There is never anything wrong with letting a fish go which/who is not the tastiest fish you have ever eaten....you only need one fantastic fish and there are lots of varieties to choose from (so throw back the chub!)!! BE SELECTIVE!! There are lots of tasty veggies (friends) to fortify you in the meantime!!

[AquarianEssence]

GemStar, I wonder how many of those children you speak of have been touch by you in some what that might not have been possible if you had children of your own. There are many who feel a lot of people out there should be sterilized and not allowed to have children. But there are valuable lessons to be gained in those homes too. And there are always angels like you out there to touch their lives. Your dad? He really believes he'll never be good enough, not you. Projection is a technique to protect the vulnerable hurting self.

[AquarianEssence]

Oh, I almost forgot. My husband has tr. node conjunct Chiron also at 27 Pisces in the 7th. The biggest chage right now for him is getting setteled into a new kind of work. He doesn't have a real solid work history other than in sales which isn't very dependable but he loved it. Now he's working with concrete, making parts of bridges and walls for commercial buildings. He's never worked so hard or so many hours but he has already been put into a job that is sort of like a promotion, more trust required and his probabtionary period isn't even up till next week. It's so weird for me because my first husband is a foreman for a conctete company and

I thought I was done with those smells, laundry, sandpaper hands after 28 years. Now it's back. He is kind enough to take his clothes off at the door of the laundry room rather than dumping them on the floor next to the bedroom hamper like my 1st husband did. And he's taking care to protect his baby soft skin I love so much. The work is more Virgo south node but the healing involved is his self esteem. Because of the hostility with my divorce and my husband's station in life combined with low self-esteem he has often compared himself to my ex, silently and out loud. T

im hasn't had opportunity to learn so many things my ex knows and he never even had a home of his own before he moved in with me. He suddenly became a stepfather of 6, a home in need of maintainance then we had a baby. That's enough to overwhelm anyone, especially him. Now he is starting to feel as good as.... I guess it wasn't an accident that it had to be through concrete. But he has Gemini on the 10th, Mercury in Pisces (that conjunction next) and critical 21 Aquarius on the 6th with vtx at 28. My ex has Sun at 20Aq. Hmmm.

[tom]

gemstar - i want to acknowledge your openness about these chiron experiences & feelings of yours.

the transiting north node is about opportunity to stretch into new territory, given the emotional content of what's stirred up by the transiting south node.

with the north node transiting your chiron, i'm reminded that the chiron part of us can't give if not aware of its pain. the heart parts of us of course don't want to see you having such access to this pain, but the astrologer parts of us must see that, as AE mentioned above, you're giving a gift to all those people who have expectations of who you are because you don't have children...the gift of surprising them by showing or reminding that being attuned to children is actually in the domain of the mother in any of us, the part of the great mother each of us is, not only women who have given literal birth to literal children.

by choosing to converse with them even after their assumptions or judgments are clear, you're choosing to be chiron in that arena. again, unfortunate that you have this pain, but that pain is a teacher for everyone you encounter where children are discussed/involved.

in evolutionary astrology, each placement, not just the nodes, is rooted in with a karmic intent - the entire chart has to do the intentions of the soul. it does not tend to be true that the soul intention is to have such pain around not having children (that's the chiron voice speaking through you), but the intention could be to do something in an unconventional way - to mother on a large scale, or mother in an unconventional way, or to show people something about mothering that is outside the norm (either attitude or techniques, etc.). the point is that the point of this for you is not about feeling pain (you're not being punished for something), but something else definitely.

so, without seeing your whole chart, tying this back to the transit of the NN over your chiron: action or understanding about the positive uses of this chiron wound is currently up. the tr NN is an opportunity, and i wonder if this time for you is about really putting to use what you understand because of your chiron wounding.

thank you for sharing this.

[gemstar]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts today! They have moved me greatly and I will return to comment later on......again, thank you very much for such caring support!!

Warm Hugs-
GemStar

[gemstar]

Just checking in....because I am in such a wordy mood these days.....(Cancer Mercury at 22....Merc return again!)....I simply hope that I do not bore you all with these longer-than-usual posts. My thoughts are many for each of you and I want to answer all.

Today, I am off to assist a friend who needs me to help with his 'trim-work' (baseboard moulding)...does this make me a bonafide Contractor?? Hee-hee....THIS I am anyway!!

It cracks me up really. Fixing up homes to make them more beautiful is so much fun for me.....but the hard labor will kill you! People often tell me I should have my own television show....probably because I crush the notion that women working 'hands-on' (though I do sub-contract lots of the work too) are not usually slim, blonde and look like a lady! In the end, proper respect is bestowed upon me due to my standards of detail and 'doing things the correct way'!! (As opposed to slip-shod work). I laugh....as a university-educated woman, this is a complete 180-deg turn from my corporate life of first-class flights and meetings in 5-star hotels!! I love it!!

OK....I will return soon, just need to take care of these tasks today! Have a great one! And thank you all again.....hope you are having a grand day!

Hugs and Love-
GemStar

[primamateria]

Hi Gem and everyone...

sorry I haven't been following this thread for the past day or so... have been working hard on sorting out my problem with the man.

obviously his Chiron is activating my North NOde too!

I thought of you yesterday, GEm, when the man's best friend questioned me about children:

him: do you have children?
me: yes! I do
him: how many?
me: dozens I have prolific offspring
him: no really how many do you have?
me: only four! little girls...
him: four! GIRLS! that must be a NIGHTMARE!
me: why would you say that?
him: well, they'll be teenagers, there'll be five women living together
me: I have no reason to be pessimistic - they're my girls!
him: no, that would be a nightmare
me: when you get to like females, your relationships will go much better for you ;D

well, I suppose you had to be there

anyway...


AE thats really interesting about your man and his NN/Chiron transit... is this a sixth house or tenth house transit for him?

C has his natal Chiron in the fifth house... not sure what is going on with him. I can see that he's going through changes - taking more interest in his health and diet, for example. I have a feeling he has been wanting to change occupation for some time ( he has Saturn transiting his tenth at the moment too) but he can't really see a way to do it... hard for me to speculate without feeling really uncomfortable, actually.

oh well, I'll sleep on it...

peace, pm