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Post by Kim Falconer on Sept 5, 2006 22:24:37 GMT
Hi Node,
Sappho in Leo in the TWELFH house may find poetic beauty and expression during times of confinement--the Poet Nazim Hikmet, a political prisoner in Turkey for much of his life, creative astonishing works while incarcerated.
It might be during an illness or a convalescence that Sappho comes to you!
Or perhaps when you are offering service to those less fortunate, working with those 'without a voice' like animals, children of even when there is a language or cultural barrier.
Creativity comes from the depths of collective suffering and you may indeed translate that thought your mission or profession in life.
Kim
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Post by moondance7 on Sept 24, 2006 22:40:35 GMT
My Sappho is at 10 degrees Libra in the second:Conjunct Neptune, tightly square venus,loosely square moon, tight trine to mars, and tight sextiles to Satrun and Pluto. It's possible this placement has contributed heavily to my Neptune/venus problems with unsuitable objects of affections, overidealism, and self-delusion in love. I was considered very artistically talented but was not interested in pursuing art. I was also quite good at writing but did not pursue. ??
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Post by Juliet on Sept 25, 2006 10:49:18 GMT
Dear Moondance,
It is never too late to pursue any creative endeavour for yourself! Second house is the house of talents. I would say you NEED creative expression.
What made you uninterested in pursuing art? Blessings, Juliet
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Post by moondance7 on Sept 25, 2006 12:22:50 GMT
J, I don't really know. I guess I felt, if you're not the best, why bother? With the writing, though, it was fear of success My negative training from my family wouldn't allow it.
My daughter is an extremely talented writer who refuses to write, I think from fear of failure.
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Post by Amoroso on Sept 25, 2006 12:45:49 GMT
Moondance,
"...why bother?"
I can not express strongly enough how misinformed I feel this attitude is, how strongly is cripples your entire being and how immeasurably diminished your life and the lives of those you love become when you adopt this manner of being. Our children learn from us.
Fear of success may be part of the problem, but what does that actually mean? My own Saturn on the exact cusp of the second says perhaps it is fear of hard work, or the inability to stand up and make time for developing these talents.
Art takes work. Yes, sometimes it flows, and that's the creative bliss we all strive for, but as the great Shakespearean actor Sir Lawrence Olivier says, "Talent needs to be turned into Craft.'
Check your 6th house and 6th house ruler to get clues into how you develope craftsmanship.
I have been using the same beginning belly-dance video for almost two years. But I get better and better and eventually will join a class. What it has done for my belly, body awareness, sensuality, connection to the Feminine Divine and joy in moving is priceless and I carry that with me throughout the day.
I work with professional and amateur singers, and let me tell you, there is very little difference in their attitudes toward what they put into their singing.
Sappho in the second can also be expressed through an artistic group endeavor. It doesn't have to be a "solo" thing.
I have a student, a man in his late 40's who has a demanding non-musical job and a family. And he makes time for lessons once a month and we set him reasonable goals. And as he says, he feel that keeping up with his singing "gives him voice" in the business community.
Perhaps my rant hits very close to home, as I am going through, and have been for several months, transiting Saturn conjunct my Jupiter/Pluto conjunction in the 10th, square natal Saturn on the second house cusp.
I think Kim is experiencing something similar.
The eclipses were important, but sorta got overshadowed by this major doozy which I will write about eventually.
This was meant to be helpful--sorry if it came out too strong.
Blessings, Amoroso
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Post by moondance7 on Sept 25, 2006 13:59:23 GMT
Not at all,Amoroso. I understand your point of view.
I don't know why I chose to put my efforts into academics instead of creativity. I don't even particularly like creative people, although art and beauty are great sources of pleasure. Music affects me so deeply that I can rarely listen to it without emotional upheaval.
My father, though having an IQ of 168 on the Stanford Binet, never went to college, and doesn't place a high value on education. My mother was an artist, and very abusive and rejecting- perhaps my reluctance comes from her.
My daughter and I both have Uranus in the 10th, and I am sure she would be happier working creatively for herself. However, $2000 monthly rent in Manhattan, and $17,000 per yr tuition for each child does not allow her to exercise this option at this point in her life.
As for creative writing, I am undergoing grief counseling in conjunction with the romantic obsession I have posted about, as was recommended. I was asked to journal daily, but find it so difficult to share my innermost thoughts with others, that I cannot even write in this fashion. Perhaps someday I will unblock and be able to write meaningful stories, but right now that iron door is fastened securely. Thanks for your thoughts.
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Post by moondance7 on Sept 25, 2006 14:03:27 GMT
Amoroso-just thought I'd add that both my 7th and 5th houses are empty.
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Post by svenskasfinx on Sept 25, 2006 18:53:03 GMT
Amoroso-just thought I'd add that both my 7th and 5th houses are empty. Well with any horoscope, one must understand: THERE ARE NO EMPTY HOUSES. (especially with asteroids) When we think about the 5th house, or any other empty house, you take on the horoscope looking not only for objects and planets in the houses, but also HOUSE RULERS. Think about the 5th house ruler, I have an "EMPTY" 7th house by the way, but it hasn't limited me in my "partnerships".. My DSC is at 27 degrees Sag. My Jupiter is conjunct my Part of Fortune and IC.. and yet its very apearent to me that although people rarely consider me a "pair" (inspite of my Gemini ASC and my Commonlaw husband with the same one degree apart) we are the most unlikely people to really "pair up" sometimes, as much as we have so much in common. 5th house, well the 5th is about children, right, and you have a child, so what does that say about your interpetation of "creativity" being an empty 5th house? Does it deny you creativity, children, joys, romance and ego? No... what it could be saying is that its something you have in what you do everyday, but still even the most creative people, especially those who felt the urge to deny their dreams because they hurt so much to have... well we all need PRACTICE. I may be considered "talented", but its hard to say I can do it WITHOUT the many years of practice, and when I don't have time for it, its difficult, and it makes me edgey, but lastly, I'm not at my best. I belive its wrong to deny "the dream".. and so many who do, only do it because it hurts too much to struggle with the fact that if you feel that down about yourself, imagine what kind of critique others would give you! It hurts, and to be creative is something you need to work with, give permission to yourself to do and honour that the dream will always be there, even if the time to honour it completely is not. I know that my entry here on this thread was not spacificly about Sappho, but I understand that some of her energy was just bursting.. that she couldn't create "fast enough" to get it all out.. she used her creative abilities to win love, but it was a slippery path, because like it always is, love is not something we can win so easily with our souls, as "the other" always has a choice.. Just as "the other" can deny.. so we possibly, if we can not take the hurt, or the rejection, deny ourselves so as to "spare" ourselves the pain. The artist who denies their child creative expression is doing it (as the actor or musician) as if to "protect" them from the disapointment and emotional pain that the work can cause, and yet its only because they can not allow their own inner critic to stop against their own ablities. Its always a case of "justifying"; I think that we all need to break the cycle as everyone knows, it is much more satisfying at being a total failure in something you love and still enjoy it rather than being a success in something you utterly hate.. going to work every day and breathing a sigh of relief for the fact you have kept your job for another day. The funny thing about creative work is that it finds its own path, either via insanity (if that energy is denied a useful outlet), or via outlets within the community or in actually seeing something in one way and sharing that vision... it all has value and the value is the same... I realize with my 5th house full of asteroids for the longest time, before I started adding the asteroids, so many books denied that I was with any sort of talent, although I was artistic, musical and creative...(and worked with astrology, tarot and palmestry)-- but then when I was 19 and I discovered information about Ceres, and Juno and finally these last years after first reading information about Eros I discovered not only was my 5th house "full" but that "classic" astrology had somehow over looked something. I recall when a classmate had a reading and told me about her 5th house being full of Planets.. and how her Astrologer told her she was "born to be creative".. I only knew about Ceres, but before then I had my doubts.. and joked, as a student of astrology "but how does that explain me, then- classicly my 5th is huge and empty".. and everyone would just joke, "oh, you are just weird, that's all".. or even "there are some things that astrology can not explain".. so if you are creative, you are creative, and you will probably discover something very important validating this, but you don't need validation when you KNOW you are. sorry about that, had to say something here. probably far too much again be well, svenskasfinx
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Post by gemstar on Sept 25, 2006 19:35:27 GMT
There is an incredible amount of wonderful ideas and thoughts written here-especially today!
Moondance7-Today I am spending the day reading the book Unlimited Power by Tony Robbins. When I opened the book today, I scanned the chapters...looking for a pointed read to help with my 'self-talk'. The chapter I read over lunch was about the BELIEF in ourselves and what we can achieve. Even though our families can sometimes be a limiting source of inspiration (read-ridiculously critical), it is in our control to program our brain and it's beliefs. Even beliefs are changed over a lifetime, a day.....or even in an hour. Sappho in your 2nd may be calling you to discover a creative writing style...one which you didn't know you possessed until the dam breaks open. Writing is a skill and one which takes practice.....but as Amoroso and Svenskasfinx pointed out....it is the attitude which makes someone successful....above any easy talent!!! Does that make sense to you?
Amoroso....I have a dear friend going through tr Sat near conj Pluto and the Saturn sq Saturn transit...it has knocked her a bit loose and yes, the eclipses were nothing compared to Saturns push forward. You have been doing amazing work on yourself this past year....good for you and I wish that all good things will continue to unfold in your discovery!
Svenskasfinx-You should never worry about saying too much! Your thoughts are interesting to read....actually, everyone's are interesting! Your thoughts have a lot of value and your ideas on 'denying' ourselves the opportunity for fear of pain or rejection were poignant. Exposing our thoughts through writing is always a risk....yet, getting those words out can be immensely rewarding to a reader who has never appeared before! Not unlike this forum, the words are written and often, we make discoveries through that writing or the responses of others. Sappho is so poetic and I believe you are right on with the thought that she wants to burst out....because she is not to be denied!
Hugs- GemStar
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Post by moondance7 on Sept 25, 2006 20:12:23 GMT
Svenksa and Gem, both of your posts are appreciated. Of course, I know that the houses are not truly empty- I have vertex,Pholus and Lilith in the 5th and Pallas Athena in the 7th. But because there are no planets there, I have always read there would be less emphasis on those houses in the lifetime of the native, and I think for me it was true,in a perverse way. I say perverse because having my daughter changed my life around 180 degrees ,but in many ways caused huge suffering and isolation for me.
I think Sappho being conjunct Neptune and square venus and moon is not a very creative aspect, but one of confusion and inhibition, at least the way it has played out in my life. Lilith in the 5th is also problematic, I would imagine and Saturn ruling the whole mess, an added inhibition. Anyway, excuses or not, creativity in the arts has not been evident in my life.
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Post by Juliet on Sept 25, 2006 22:31:12 GMT
Moondance, I would imagine Sappho conjunct Neptune is an enormously creative aspect! I would love to hear why you think it is not! When Saturn was transiting my fifth house, and was opposite my natal Saturn, I started painting again, after a 'intermission' of 32 years. Painting is not in any way easy to me, it's an excruciating and painful process, time and time again, giving birth, but it is liberating and healing in the end. When I'm painting I lose lots of (so symbolic) weight, I try to put it off, try to find excuses not to etcetera. It is confrontational, because selfcriticism and other emotions start in earnest while creating. But I was so healthy physically then! Can you get into a flow easily?? One can also have that in academic work, that must be equally creative!
You might have read about my health problems. I've just started to write in my diary again, after an intermission of a few years. I wanted to leave everything that has happened behind, but that cannot be, I was kidding myself, and tomorrow, I'll pick up the brushes and start finishing a mural I'd started to get well. But it's true you have always to live your truth, not that of others. I hope you'll find yours.
Blessings, Juliet
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Post by svenskasfinx on Sept 26, 2006 22:11:58 GMT
.."I would imagine Sappho conjunct Neptune is an enormously creative aspect! I would love to hear why you think it is not!".. It must CERTAINLY BE, especially in the 12 house, I think it reads into an imagination beyond most people's wildest dreams.. Juliet, totally with you on the painting thing, and I'm glad you get theraputic value from it because it does allow the flow of emotions, and thus helps the body deal with underlying issues alot better.. I don't exactly understand why, but I think its the visual nature and just letting out energy that doesn't always come out physically direct ways and lets you access the inner workings of the mind.. I'd be happy to see where the work takes you; I don't believe it could ever take anyone anywhere "negative".. but rather it does take people to understand the abstract undercurrent of their emotions and gives it a visual expression to compliment the "wordless depths". take care everyone! svenskasfinx
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Post by Juliet on Sept 27, 2006 7:20:14 GMT
Dear Sven, I feel it's the streaming of energy that is healing. Mind is energy, body is energy, creativity is energy. And I am strongly visual, that is why I do not like phonecalls. I get all desorientated when I don't see someone. Do you still paint a lot??? Still remember your lovely, strong sketches!
Juliet
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Post by svenskasfinx on Sept 27, 2006 9:00:55 GMT
Dear Sven, I feel it's the streaming of energy that is healing. Mind is energy, body is energy, creativity is energy. And I am strongly visual, that is why I do not like phonecalls. I get all desorientated when I don't see someone. Do you still paint a lot??? Still remember your lovely, strong sketches! Juliet Well I started back to painting too after a long pause (of about 6 years) since I found this forum! This is probably due to the discovery and enthusiasum and inspiration that Kim and others here on the forum have brought to me.. it doesn't stop me from being "frozen" in my tracks on occasion, but the myths and the Asteroids themselves have been very inspiring for me and the ideas and energies seem to "speak" to me about who they are or could be.. if personified, as an image.. Since this is a thread about Sappho, I suppose one of the initial sketches for Sappho I made should be put here, just for your kind words and compliments: I know she looks moody, but I based this on the drawing of someone I know with Sappho conjunct her ASC in Leo conjunct Vesta.. a creative person so the first sketches are just of her, not everything that I think or feel when I think about the energies of Sappho. Be well and thanks for all the well wishes, svenskasfinx
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Post by Juliet on Sept 27, 2006 17:20:26 GMT
It's sweet and lovely, she looks moody and is beautiful... it has a wonderful dreamy atmosphere Thank you. Still have to put up my art up here... Juliet
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