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Post by Amoroso on May 11, 2005 23:14:38 GMT
Dear All,
I know that Martha Lang-Wescott has done some amazing pioneering work on the asteroids, and I have some of her books. But I am wondering what you all think of her claim that:
"...Juno represents what "stands between the two [partners] and prevents the relationship from being utterly fulfilling. So Juno addresses the bone of contention. It's also part of the important dynamic that was learned from the relationship of the parents (and particularly the mother's role and attitude in that marriage."
My Juno at 20 Capricorn certainly "supports" the executive--the administrator--within me and without at all costs. And I did learn that from my mom--she ran everything at home plus worked part time plus totally supported my dad in his job, both emotionally and with her own physical contributions to his job. And if I have "built" something (Capricorn) I will not give it up for anything. I will be flattened by a freight train before I give something I've built--a relationship, organization, home, etc, and even then, will only give it up when it profoundly affects my health to not give it up.
On other threads we have discussed Juno's committment, but I am thinking that is more of a Saturn thing. Since on this forum we are learning that planets are energies that can express in a positive or negative ways (free will) what do you think are positive attributes to Juno? What does the myth tell us?
Blessings, Amoroso
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Post by Amoroso on May 11, 2005 23:21:52 GMT
Ok, so now I am answering myself with a quote by myself elsewhere on Kim's forum.....
"According to the George/Bloch book "Asteroid Goddesses," she stimulates the development "of cooperation, compromise, understanding and harmony with people."
But feel free to add thoughts!
Amoroso
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Post by Kim Falconer on May 12, 2005 1:12:41 GMT
Amoroso,
Here is a snippet from my Eros book on Juno—She is concerned with commitment, and also with the awakening and honoring of the feminine, both light and dark!
Often even Juno, greatest of heaven dwellers, boiled with flaring wrath at her husband's fault, knowing the many intrigues of passionate Jove. --Gaius Valerius Catullus
Juno differs from the other asteroid goddesses in her unwavering desire for marriage: Ceres prefers the company of the earth, her daughter and the occasional lover. A staunch virgin, Pallas Athena seeks the company of men as comrades in arms. Although offered the hand of marriage by Poseidon and Apollo, Vesta prefers to stay sequestered in her temple, content with managing the sacred flame of renewal. She welcomes men only as a consecrated act of divine union.
The goddess Juno gets married.
Juno/Hera wanted Jupiter/Zeus, king of the pantheon of Mt. Olympus, to be her lawfully wedded husband. Originally a virgin sky deity in her own right, Hera’s marriage to Zeus is thought to represents a merging of two cults that were once dissimilar. It is speculated that this happened as the matriarchal era waned and the “rise of man” pervaded. How ever it came about, the marriage of Zeus and Hera was a rocky one.
As he did most women, Zeus made various attempts to seduce Juno early on, but she would not submit to him unless he promised to marry her. His desire must have been great, because he agreed and they were married on Mt. Olympus with all the gods and goddesses in attendance.
Although Juno was faithful to her marriage vows, the mighty Zeus certainly was not. The more furious, vengeful, and jealous Juno became, the more he sought the extramarital company of other goddesses, mortals and youths. Their relationship seems volatile and laced with domestic violence, threats and deception. Juno also persecuted the illegitimate offspring of Zeus’ escapades with relentless cruelty. In spite of this, Zeus continued his myriad affairs yet still longed for his wife. They had at least three children together.
Primarily the goddess of marriage and maternity, Hera/Juno rules over all aspects of the sacred feminine. She is the image of the archetypal good wife and while long-term committed relationship is her realm, she did have dealings with Eros.
Aristophanes tells us that golden winged Eros drove Juno’s chariot and then presided over her wedding to Zeus. Although the domains of wedlock and erotic love are not the same, there is a sense of acknowledgement and support from Eros to Juno.
Juno wants stability, commitment and ongoing relationship. Does she "stand between the two [partners] and prevents the relationship from being utterly fulfilling?”
I wouldn’t say so much that she “stands between” although I do think she was used a s bridge between a metrical cult and a patriarchal one. What she can do is point out (vividly) what does stand between a harmonious union and ultimately that is the inner marriage of animus and anima in every individual.
Other ideas?
Warmly, Kim
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Post by neptunewoman on May 22, 2005 17:20:13 GMT
Kim, the Magi Society is now referring to "Juno" as the mistress link...they state that when a couples has more Juno links than Chiron links the relationship will not lead to marriage but revolve around sex.
Also, the link between Chiron and Juno can lead to a long term relationship.
What are your thoughts on Juno being the asteroid of the mistress?
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Post by svenskasfinx on May 22, 2005 19:43:55 GMT
Kim, the Magi Society is now referring to "Juno" as the mistress link...they state that when a couples has more Juno links than Chiron links the relationship will not lead to marriage but revolve around sex. Also, the link between Chiron and Juno can lead to a long term relationship. What are your thoughts on Juno being the asteroid of the mistress? Hello NeptuneWoman, We have actually had a discussion concerning "Magi Astrology" previously, (link below) erosastrology.proboards26.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1096346835I question Magi Astrology, but since I am not an expert on the topic, and many of its teachings come in conflict with my own point of view the purpose of astrology its difficult for me to understand this idea of Juno being the "Mistress". I question that mainly because I see Juno as the one who is validated within a relationship. Other astrologers who do not use asteroids so often even tend to agree that Juno contacts Lend themselves to long lasting relationships as well as Saturn contacts. (I'm not certain about Chiron, but since Chiron is between Saturn and Uranus, I would assume it adds something more lasting to the idea of things which could be considered too "Uranian" to last... most astrologers agree that Uranus is not the easiest thing to intergrate in the terms of long term commitment but these contacts are interesting, electrical, freedom seeking and spontanious... it is very difficult to pin down a spark or a lightening bolt.. but sometimes, it can happen so in these terms maybe Chiron could be that element which can pin down a spark..) Anyway, I know you asked Kim about this, and hopefully she will get back to you soon, but I thought I'd share my views... Take care, svensksasfinx
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Post by Kim Falconer on May 23, 2005 2:31:44 GMT
Kim, the Magi Society is now referring to "Juno" as the mistress link...What are your thoughts on Juno being the asteroid of the mistress? What are my thoughts? My thoughts are that Juno was not a mistress, certainly not in today's sense of the word. I don't think any contacts to Juno, good or bad in synastry can say "This will last" or "This won't last." “This will be a marriage and this one won’t.” We have to remember that nothing here (earth) 'lasts" and the judgment we have on a 30 year relationship having more value than a 3 day one is purely cultural. It's not how the psyche sees ut and it's certainly not what is reflected in the astrological chart. I think we have to get clear on the language of the universe. Forget about "lasting relationship" in the way that we perceive it. We need to think more about purpose, meaning and fulfillment in ways that are not attached to time markers. Again, what is 'lasting"? The chart can say something, when looking at the synastry, about what it will be like if you do relate to someone for the time you relate to them. If your question is "What will this be like," then we can comment. Juno can comment. But Juno as Mistress? I don't really see it. Demetra George would be a great person to ask this question to. I'd love to hear what she would have to say! Hera/Juno, in Greek and Roman times, presided over marriage and was the "idealized wife". She was worshiped as such, the Divine consort, not the Divine mistress! In pre-Hellenistic times she was worshiped outside the context of marriage (Zeus and the patriarchal man hadn't awakened yet), presiding over all stages of womanhood- maiden, mother, crone. Again, Mistress? I don't see it, though she does carry aspects of the feminine and of the dark feminine in her earlier forms. I haven't studied the Magi approach though, so I suggest you do your own research and test out their theories. They'd have to be based on something! In what way do they attribute Juno with qualities of "the mistress"? What do they mean by mistress? What aspects do they say you “can’t have” or “have to have” for such and such to happen? Is that what they are really saying? It's a good question, just a bit out of my range. Warmly, Kim PS, Thanks Sven, for your contribution. Very helpful (last week of finals then I have a few days off!)
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Post by neptunewoman on May 29, 2005 15:33:26 GMT
I have been thinking about this mistress theory and don't want to consider Juno the mistress link...in my mind it does not make sense...thanks for the responses.
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Post by Kim Falconer on May 29, 2005 23:53:41 GMT
There are archetypal "divine harlots" who initiate men into the sacred rites of sex...Inanna, for one, Hestia (pre-Hellenistic), and some aspects of the dark feminine as she appears in Lilith, Aphrodite and always, the mother goddess, the Moon.
"Mistress" is such a small word for what these deities, and women, represent. I think considering Juno a mistress diminishes her, and misrepresents her. It doesn't do much to the woman reading a configuration in her chart that says, "because of this...that."
Everything is worth exploring, though, worth consideration. The closed mind gets nowhere! Thank you for bringing this point up.
Warmly, Kim
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Post by pam on Nov 27, 2008 4:26:20 GMT
Hi Kim, I've been doing some hunting about on Juno because I made the interesting discovery that R's Juno is conjunct my sun/venus and my Juno is conjunct his ascendant. things are progressing rather smoothly. I've released my insistence that he express himself the way I desire and have been listening to alot of Barry White and Lionel Ritchie. It's working. He said something really sweet to me last night, and I could tell that it wasn't easy for him to get out. I really appreciated hearing it.
Pam
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Post by tom on Dec 2, 2008 5:31:23 GMT
re my own juno, which is tightly conjunct my scorpio sun, i've seen a blindspot being in the expectation of reciprocation.
because you're so totally committed and you've focused it on that other, it might seem natural to assume that commitment and focus will be met. and there's a learning in owning your expectations and being clear in communicating.
for zeus/jupiter, the marriage was on one level about finally getting to bed her, a definition that did not fit with juno's.
i'm also not down with the mistress thing from the magi people - there's a weird vibe on that my viscera react negatively to.
when i work with clients, i use it as a marker of commitment that might have the blindspot of assuming it'll be reciprocated. that could show up in any house and not be about marriage; i don't say it's just about marriage. i do have a friend with her capricorn juno something like 7 minutes off my jupiter, and i do see a commitment and focus between us. we're each sensitive to energy, though, and i'm not sure anything goes unsaid - i feel compelled to be honest with her. maybe that's healing for my jupiter energy in the face of her juno energy! just got that, insert laughter here.
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Post by ariesmoon on Dec 2, 2008 7:21:41 GMT
Tom, I can relate to the Sun conjunct Juno thing - I've got a second house Sun at 4 Cancer and both Juno and Ceres within minutes of each other at 8 Cancer. So the blindspot rings very true - I love, and I nurture, and I want to commit, and I think "why am I not getting this back?" Answer, because it may not be what others want, or they may be content to just soak it up, and not reciprocate it. That goes for friends as well as partners.
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Post by Juliet on Dec 2, 2008 8:06:59 GMT
Tom, Do you mean that you believe Juno is always about being committed and expecting it back? I don't know. My Juno is in Gemini, a lot of my friends are Gemini's (and Scorpio's strangely enough). One of my main lessons was to learn to fully commit to myself. And guess what happened next? (I did not have these expectations in friendships btw, just in sexual relationships.)
I can immediately tell whenever my commitment to myself needs some polishing up, because I get this tired, yucky feeling and I start to emotionally cling to my bf, as if I want to get love through him. Which is not so good for the health of the relationship. Whenever I am committed to myself, and with this (recovering) workaholic that often means more equilibrium between work and rest, I feel a lot freer to love both of us!!!! But anyhow, I choose to be in relationships, friendships or otherwise, where there is reciprocation, feels very logic to me.
Juno is square my Sun, trine Jup. J.
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Post by pam on Dec 2, 2008 12:21:12 GMT
Greetings tom, Juliet, et al,
My Juno is on my IC (2 degrees) and opposite my Jupiter (Far conjunction). I will have to think about my commitment issues (and I have a great many) and my expectations in relationships (I tend to have a great many of those as well). Great food for thought.
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Post by tom on Dec 3, 2008 1:50:52 GMT
hi juliet, the reciprocity blindspot is just something i've noticed a lot of re juno. i don't see it always happening. but i notice i personally have had that blindspot, and when clients come in with juno issues, that tends to be an answer for them - to learn to communicate better with the other etc.
the only thing i see about juno all the time is the interest in commitment, or the interest in avoiding it because of the tangles we might have gotten ourselves into in the past.
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Post by Aphrodite on Dec 3, 2008 2:54:30 GMT
Hi Tom,
I don't think I understand this "reciprocity blindspot" concept fully yet, but very interested in learning. You are definitely on to something important (to me)! My 5th hs Jupiter/Chiron conjunction (exact) is less than half a degree from my bf's Juno in his 1st hs - and all this about 7 - 10 degrees from his Sun and my Moon. Juno is conjunct Sun, Moon, Mercury, Vesta, Venus and Eros in our composite chart 4th hs.
I really wish I could talk about all this, but I'm not sure what to say next. I mean, there's so much to get into that I don't know how to coherently translate my thoughts. Where/how do I start? Nevertheless, you have given me much to think about. Thank you for that!
Aphrodite
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