|
Post by svenskasfinx on May 30, 2006 9:55:06 GMT
Hello everyone, I'm often wondering about my "marriage partnership" situation, I get the impression sometimes we tend to fall into situations where our 7th house "partner" isn't really a "partner" in an equal way, but rather relationships tend to take on other House personalities. I was bringing it up to My partner how we, because we never made any legal action towards partnership status and how we seem be rather "un equal" when it comes to terms of power that the relationship which started rather "5th house" has grown not into a "7th house" relationship, but rather a "6th house" relationship... then I had to think about it for a while...perhaps All relationships with people can take on these meaningful shades- Even within what we consider Partnerships "7th House" is usually where we say, "This is a legitimate partnership between two people, sanctified in the bonds of a legal agreement." If there is a "breach of contract" it seems both parties have rights to demand "justice" or some "fair" judgement. When I brought up to my husband that our relationship still had a "5th House" situation to it, I illustraited the idea with the fact that he seemed "threatened" by my friendships and 11th house matters, my participation within groups of people. 5th house relationships can go directly opposed to what "friends" say as well...and there is an obvious "lack of ballance" when it comes to power within such relationships. Sometimes it plays out into a "Parent/Child" dynamic between the two people only because someone has to play that roll when the romantic nature of the situation "wears off" and there is no "7th house" movement into "equality". But Normally we all tend to start our romantic relationships in the "5th house", its the "in door" to the romantic experience for most people. However, things can be a little different. One may meet someone, who is a neighbour "3rd House" and start that relationship there.. just as an example.. or as a friend "11th/5th house".. ect. The difference is, when one moves the relationship on, with the natural development of things into 6th-7th.. or back to the 4th, its that you have taken this romantic relationship into either a "family situation" and "move in" (4th house) or you become a part of their "domestic life" (4th or 6th house), feed them, care for them, and hope that there is some spark left to the romantic, rather than just "service" and daily drudgery. (the kitchen phase of life ).. Then there is the 7th house, although the 6th house is a real, "romance killer" for the 7th house relationship, it could also be a private life which nurtures the spirit when there is "service" involved. The 7th house relationship MUST ballance the needs of the two in the relationship... otherwise the 7th house becomes division and two seprate persons rather than a "partnership"; wether that is a Marriage, or a buisness contract, or team.. in a non-romantic way, the 7th house is not threatened by 5th house issues (like creativity, or the arrival of children).. this doesn't take anything from that, but rather adds to it, as do friendships and being part of a group (11th house issues). A "Me" centered relationship, takes a realistic turn in a 7th house partnership. Where as in a 5th house relationship, allowing one's personal needs to come first is a part of it.. and it shouldn't seem a threat to such a relationship, however, if one is in a 5th house relationship and there are children involved, somewhere along the line, someone is going to have not only the children to care for, but that partner's Self interested needs as well. In a 6th house relationship, one's personal needs become an important issue the health I suspect. (relation that the pattern of quincux also sugests that there are both psychological and physical needs issues with the adjustments required under that influence but I'm just really thinking about the 6th relation to the 1st house) Demands may be made that one of the partners should dress, appear, or work in a certain way, or that one must be in service to the other.. in such a situation the 5th house becomes the 12th meaning that there is a certain chance that 5th house issues may be matters that pull the people back to psychological issues, for both "good" and "bad", as for some who are not developed, the 12th house is the "Achillie's heal" of the soul. Within 5th house relationships it is always the "biological family" or "the early childhood experiences" which are the 12th house hotbed of issues.. you can really see when you have a child, (a naturally 5th house relationship, how much your biological issues of nurturing, and your own personal psychology partake in the relationship with the child and yourself. If you imagine your relationship takes on a 5th house feel to it, such things can be both the weakness and inner strength to such a relationship. Is it any wonder that in those cheezy films when two people in love (5th house) or pregnant (5th house) come to meet the family, how many issues come out of the wood work? Even still, the biological family (as well as the non-biological upbringing and early psychological issues) are a major dominating theme for the 7th house relationship, after all the 4th house IS the 10th house to the 7th if you think about it in derivitive house terms. People can survive without being "married" and that parntership can mean as much if not more than a "legal contractual obligation".. however even in a "legally binding relationship" one still may not have "moved on" enough for the relationship to be of "equals". Being "equals" is only a recent development.. it was in fact the "families" which made the contract "equal". When people in most places agree to marry, what they really are doing is entering an agreement within a family... and within that agreement there must be respect for both people. In modern times we can take a relationship to where we choose to take it, without the "family" standing in the wings with a "shot gun", at least most of the time. But it is up to the couple to decide if it is going to be an "equal" relationship, or if its going to be a relationship of "service" "family" "children" ect. However it can't exactly be an 8th house relationship without passing through the 7th house of contracts unless there is usually a gentic connection. It reminds us that the 8th is trined by the 4th.. its what we contribute psychologically or geneticly and inheret..sometimes as with a 7th house sitation, it is our blessed resource.. or in some kind of conflict when it comes from the 5th house.. its an energy that is not in harmony with the general structure of society, so without the 7th house contract, the 8th is an ending rather than a resource. (4th from the 5th- where a resource in a parntership becomes something to possess, perhaps) Anyone else have any observations? this is just my chance to write down some of the things that I've been thinking about for a while, and I am totally convinced that I am in a somewhat 5th house relationship still, that seems to only move forward into a 6th house relationship with the family around... and no farther... (perhaps to be in harmony with the expectations of the family?) I guess my roll as un equal, (and we switch rolls parent/child at times where as I nurture and he scolds me! or judges that he has to take care of both my son and I, or that I have to take care of his ego needs, such as that need for the latest "flat screen TV" but then say: "well it IS your money, but if this was actually an equal partnership, wouldn't the desiding factor in buying things before you got let go from your job be something we BOTH woud talk about?" It also gives me the impression that if I get the job, you know that one I've been trying to catch for a while, would it naturally progress our relationship into more of a partnership, or would it be moving me perminantly in the place of the 6th house "servent girl"? I mean, equal money (that's a laugh) doesn't always, mean "equal say"... and as I asked him, "If I made more money that you do, would you respect me, if I treated you, just as you treat me?" (a true 7th house question not that a 5th our 6th house relationship can't ask that.. its about the idea of ME (1st house) YOU, others, partnership (7th house).. and it becomes compulsery to SHARE where as with 11th house, 5th house, 3rd house, 9th house, its possibly "optional". once again, if there is anything that anyone needs to add, go ahead, I want to think about these issues in a "whole perspective" from other angles as well as other cultures, and from not only "Heterosexual" points of view as well, but rather, "Homosexual" and "Bisexual" relationships within the constucts of societial obligations. This is usually where we get the most variety actuall... the blue print to the future of what we mean when we call our relationships a "relationship". be well, Svenskasfinx
|
|
|
Post by ana on Jun 13, 2006 12:08:07 GMT
I found that last one so interesting I have been reading round relationships a long time and not considered 6th house and it certainly rang some bells for me - thankyou
|
|
|
Post by gemstar on Jun 13, 2006 13:55:48 GMT
Well, that was some serious typing!! I wanted to add a few thoughts (generally speaking) so here they are..... The type of relationship a person has is usually one in which s/he has chosen. (Unconciously or not). Why is taking responsibility for that choice something a lot of people seem to avoid (forget)? We all might tend to think that everyone has the same needs and challenges in relationships, however, the truth is, each person's needs are different. Therefore, the experience of one relationship might be completely opposite than another (with a different individual). They all begin in different manners and with different influences. Astrology points out in a personal manner, how we 'DO' relationships. This is the first step in understanding ourselves and perhaps the choices we make. When we add into the mix, how the partner 'DOES' relationships, then we decide if we can accept that way or not. I would not ever categorize relationships all beginning as 5th house. As you mentioned, neighbors (3rd) can evolve directly to 8th house isses...by-passing the 4 houses in between etc...the lighter 5th relationship may never have the needed depth to become the 7th and 8th house ones. The nature of a relationship is an animal to it's own. And making the concious choice to be in that relationship is agreeing to be a part of that animal. Because no one is perfect, we look for a partner who is most perfect for US. Perfect for you. I will usually ask what a person's NEEDs are and ask them to list them. And what I am looking for are needs beyond the universal....Love, friendship etc.... Each of us has individual needs and desires we wish for in a partner. Things in which we believe would enhance our lives. Knowing what these personal and individual needs are is most important for future success with another person. If one doesn't know what those specific needs are (beyond the general human needs), than how will one ever be able to make good choices for a partner? Know your Venus. Know their Venus. Explore the aspects. And most importantly, KNOW YOUR NEEDS. Mostly, it appears that people have expectations of the other person bringing us true happiness. It is too often where we need to be reminded that we alone must bring happiness to our inner self....no one else. Now, of course, someone treating us (or us ALLOWING) like a servant is an issue where our happiness begins to wane. The inequality between men and women is too alive and well. Who can change that? Women can!! You can. It just might not be the ultimate or quick outcome you want at times-so you search for a different way to handle it. Keeping RESPECT within the relationship (a whole other topic)is a major key to keeping things equal. Cultures can make this change difficult....but if change never happened over the centuries, we would all be living in caves and munching on buffalo bones. Right? So here it is....it is simply YOUR decision. Your choice of how that relationship develops. Yes, I used the word develop on purpose because when something becomes stagnant, it is time to develop it further. If we are not active in this phase, well, something surely will develop and maybe it will not be what we desire!! Why not help it along? The basic challenges will be seen in the synastry (and composite but I prefer the synastry mostly). In order for lasting change, it is imperative to review these areas of challenge and make choices of how they can be better worked with. Again, this is specific to the relationship of those two certain people....not a blanket thing. Take your top three issues, allow the other person to name their top three and go from there....compromising....developing....relating on a more even playing field. Bottom-line, Life and relationships are about CHOICES. Astrology can certainly give us huge insight into ourselves and why we choose what we choose. Knowing what you want and seeking it out are important too. If something does not sit well with you...even if you let it go for a long time, make the choice for change. It is far better to work and choose the relationship changes than let the apparent changes wear you down to a mere shadow of your desires. N'est pas? Hugs- GemStar
|
|
|
Post by svenskasfinx on Jun 13, 2006 16:41:28 GMT
The "Choice" between two people is always muddled by the sub-consiousness in action; there are always the other juristictions as well. For example when I mentioned the "5th house" relationship (and I'm certain there are various shades of all partnerships which range from 1-12 house types) there are other aspects to the symbols of what they are, even still, from "permenent" to "fling" the 5th house speaks of "enjoyment" "sex with a small "s"" and sometimes even "children". It can mean "creativity" and "romantic energy" but doesn't always have to be any of these... I mean yes, it depends upon what the you bring to the relationship to begin with...that is a choice which is typically YOU, right, but not always.. (I joke about this because when I didn't "date" musicians, which was all I ever did, and dated an actor (who bought me a house, and wanted to marry me) the relationship was more difficult, "Wrong" even due to this need for the other person's "illusion", it was effectively a problem because dishonesty WAS the issue that desolved the situtation... and yes it was MY choice to not play in with that "illusion" regaurdless of what his feelings were on the topic, I didn't walk out immediately, but stated that I realized that the situation between us was more complex than he wanted, and that I couldn't be 2-dimensional (like he strived for almost), that some of the choices he claimed that were his own were simply projections of what he thought I wanted him to be like. The real end came when although this was out in the open, he felt hurt that I searched for some kind of psychological counciling so that we could perhaps understand each other's needs in spite of being what I considered, "totally incompatable". I didn't want to leave him in the learch... however this action alone showed that he was not confortable with the idea of someone mediating- he was (enraged that I should mention his problem with porn with anyone else). Bottom line it was MY problem, but I didn't have to live with it. ---- I was thinking about one point I didn't make about the 7th house relationship: the rulerships of the 7th house include: Partnerships, yes but also open enemies; Other people, People different than you are.. ect... It is easy to see where the 7th house can go terribly wrong! It is the symbolic of the other when you place it in the context of the 1st house, (the self)... and is influenced by the aspect the "opposition" just because of what it means to the self and who it symbolicly represents. This is the challange.. you can share, be "equal" but also be "different" and "alien" to each other... you both function on "two different levels" but don't always notice that the other in the day to day.. perhaps even overlooking one another's "appearances" (first house) but rather get fixated upon different functions the other does for you. Its hard for me to think that a 5th house relationship could work in this way, however I can see it could have a blind spot, or a seperation where 11th house issues of "friendships" happen.. where two lovers may start off as friends and "ruin" the friendship IS a huge theme, don't you agree? But then how do they salvage the friendship? the 12 houses give a clue to what would "save it" and one of those would be, "go back to being friends.." but the other popular one is OR "get married".. Changes are choices we can make, but sometimes the change can actually threaten the relationship, one can either stay.. make the change, hope that the OTHER person within a partnership will accept that change and let it go, the problem is one of the major causes for relationships to "break up" wether it be a partnership or an employee/boss, is the fact that someone may become uncomfortable with the other in that change. For most of us, we always will see our children as our "babies" even when they grow up and have families of their own.. and we resist that change when it first starts, when the child first starts school and becomes "another person" rather than a "extention" (not that it ever was for me.. but you know what I mean I hope) there is both a time to rejoice but also a time for sadness as that tiny baby is now a socially functioning person who has his or her own ideas.. and often rejects the ideas you give him or her because they are in the process of change, making up their own minds about what they like, even if you offer them something you KNOW they like, when in this proccess they often reject it because they want to take a symbolic stance.. same thing is true of other changes between people at times.. an almost symbolic need to not want to accept help from "mother" or "father" or what ever relationship it is.. Why does it happen that a man can complain and complain about the independance or "status" of his wife, and yet when she does change, he gets seriously worried and often says, " I know I said all those things earlier, but I liked things the way they were..." (been there, done that!) needless to say, my changes were not about his opinions but the path I needed to go, and they ended in a change which naturally he couldn't handle, in spite of what ever he said he wanted previously, once the changes happened, not only did the relationship disolve, but the friendship was no longer there either.. even in a 5th house situation. yeah.. sorry about all this mess, but I'll be back to eventually tie it up some day soon. be well all, and you are all welcome to add something to it..personal experience what ever. svenskasfinx
|
|
|
Post by gemstar on Jun 13, 2006 17:01:11 GMT
One of the comments you made: Changes are choices we can make, but sometimes the change can actually threaten the relationship, one can either stay.. make the change, hope that the OTHER person within a partnership will accept that change and let it go, the problem is one of the major causes for relationships to "break up" whether it be a partnership or an employee/boss, is the fact that someone may become uncomfortable with the other in that change.illustrates the very fact that change brings up choices. I wanted to comment about the choice of ending something. Naturally, one of the options (and not necessarily a bad one) is to end the relationship. (Assuming other hopeful options have been discussed/tried and explored.) Connections with people can end. Partnerships often run their course. One of the lessons that humans have such a difficult time with is 'letting go'. Whether it is about the end of a relationship, by choice, through death, watching your children become young adults....we all must accept that letting go is a natural part of life. The more someone fights it, the more stress is evoked and a struggle to keep things 'as they were' ensues. Overall, this is not terribly healthy thinking/behavior. So, what does one do when change is inevitable? Well, you try your best to accommodate it and compromise where needed. Respect is nothing to compromise in my opinion and when one person is not respecting the boundaries of a relationship (emotional, financial etc...) and it is no longer acceptable to the other partner, why would you continue to stay? (Generally speaking-not necessarily your situation Svenskafinx). So what-the relationship ends. So what. Obviously it needed to end. And yes, it would be sad...but this is part of growing and evolving in our lives. Here the wonder of transits by the planets is enlightening. Fighting change does not seem to be an option!! Maturity 5 years ago will be different than today. Experiences and revelations cause us to change and grow. Sometimes, the path with our partner diverges....and after a time, may not come back together again. Thus....we can either wallow and complain about how much the relationship does not meet our needs....or we buck it up and move on. Perhaps another important point may be HONESTY. And I mean honesty within yourself. Honesty in looking at one's own gifts and flaws that contribute to the relationship in question. If one can not honestly look at oneself, than how do you ever answer the overall question of why something is not working properly? Neptune can be the great illusionary figure here. So..if we are with someone who deludes himself, do we choose to stay deluded with him/her? Ahhh....now the true motivations come to the forefront. Do we delude ourselves with our expectations? (Are they contradictory in nature-as in "no, I don't do this" when in reality you DO!) Only we can answer truthfully for ourselves. Some people do not take the time to examine this fact....and then wonder why there is no satisfaction to be found. Relationships are wonderful and I like to remind people of CHOICE. Fate plays a part and of course, people come into our lives to teach us or we teach them. You know the saying, for a day, for a season or for a lifetime. Only you can know with time..... And getting comfortable with inevitable change is one more level to absorb. Hugs- GemStar
|
|
|
Post by svenskasfinx on Jun 13, 2006 17:37:21 GMT
Speaking on a more personal note on change:
I was in a record shop, in Chicago, fitting place to be at the time because it really was the "full circle" to my "last days" from the first days in living in that town... I asked the two women who lived together with their male partners the "What if" question, seeing what they would do in my place.. (remind everyone I already said that I finally had enough) neither one of the women said that they would make the move to leave, only because the "change" would be too much of a disruption. Neither of the women wanted to go through the "sorting out" process.. splitting up properties, who will live were.. and who had access to the "pet".. (since neither one had children although one of the woman was actually living together and in a romantic situation with her buisness partern and partial owner of the shop which was at that time finalizing its "closing")
They both told me, "it would have to be seriouslly BAD to even consider such a change"
In my case, they may have thought I was being "over reactive".. however the conditions were unberable for me..including but not limited to a relationship without sex! Honesty with myself made the process easier to deal with... but some would have called it "nit picking".
thanks for that,
svenskasfinx
|
|
|
Post by gemstar on Jun 13, 2006 18:02:45 GMT
Noooooo....not nit-picking!! That is the danger in 'comparing' ourselves to others. Only you knew what was right for you-and you did it!! Bravo!!!!! That illustrates exactly my point. People will come up with a myriad of excuses to NOT LEAVE a situation which is not exactly fulfilling. Again, there is a balance between realistic expectations and out of control expectations. You were no longer willing to subject your Soul to the negative relationship which had developed. Most people resist change. It drives me insane!! (Yes, I have done my fair share of resisting at times too!!). Mostly, I do not want to answer to a greater Being and have to justify why I chose to simply 'exist' at the expense of my Soul, my needs and moreso, my Life. I choose to Honor my Spirit. Not in a selfish way which is negative-but in a way that seeks to provide for my personal truth and desires. The things which create and deveop a more IMPROVED Me.....does that make sense? Asking random strangers their opinions can be a dangerous hobby. Ha,ha....how can you consider the source of information when you do not know them? And they do not know you or all the nitty-gritty details that have pushed you into the place you find yourself? Judgment on either side is easy to pass.....and gaining acceptance from strangers is not necessarily something I put a lot of weight in anymore. If I let the influence of others continually make my decisions for me, who do I blame if it was the wrong decision? Ha,ha....Hey, not me, they said to do it and I did!! Ha,ha...Nooo way Jose. Even still, I certainly appreciate others' ideas and like to measure my thoughts as well. Being open to new angles of looking at things is a wonderful thing to consider, yet...... there are innate flaws in doing so which may not be clearly apparent at first. (Consider the source-of whom is usually from an unknown basis). Usually you can sort out who has good wisdom and understanding and who simply keeps their head under the rug. What a way to live.....we all can twist a situation to make it more palatable for our minds....but is that really a good choice? Finally, I am getting to the better level of determining my own choices and freeing myself from other's opinions/influences. What a relief!! And I will take full responsibility if I should make a wrong decision...SO WHAT? (My saying for today!) Certainly I will have learned a thing or two!! However, I trust myself and my growth from experiences far more than most anyone else. Let people think you are nit-picking....maybe they should consider being a little more picky themselves!! (Not to mention the many excuses people make for why they do not leave unfulfilling situations). Their loss in this Life....and certainly the transits will bring honesty to their forefront in due time. All hail for personal Honesty....Sooooo.....now which astrological aspect gives us this one?? I like it!! Hugs- GemStar
|
|
|
Post by svenskasfinx on Jun 13, 2006 20:20:14 GMT
Ah those women in the shop, they worked at the shop, I'd seen them around before.. I knew them better than strangers, but not really close personal friends... I thought that it was amazing because I thought of both of them as rather "independant thinking" women.. maybe they both had relationships they had everything they wanted from.. who can say, I didn't give them the reasons but rather speculations on my own problems at the time.. But I did mention, when you live with someone, do you just say "that's enough" and get it over with.. in spite of your own economic factors and failures or do you just stay and "take it".. I was suprised they said that leaving would be "Too much trouble"..they too were at least being honest; they were two "goth chicks"... it wasn't exactly "unknown" but just the "different factor"... 'which astrological factor gives us "honesty"? I don't rightly know!!! I could guess that it depends on where "one lives" in the chart, and where most of the energies show themselves..it MAY be the area that produces a "tone" of honesty...Aspects between Mercury and Neptune are always back and forth with living and "dispelling" illusion..illusions of the mind.. I find it hard to think that Neptune in hard aspect with Mercury wants to be "deceptive" but its usually a factor.. having said this, the ex I left, Mercury squared Neptune, from Leo to Scoripio...from the 11th house to the 4th. The current conditions are my "husband" with Mercury conjunct Mars and NN. in Opposition to Neptune...he explains things well for me, from the "other person" perspective, but also empathisis with my inablity to see just what it is that the general public sees or wants from the illusional.. (in a personal note, another person I have been heavily attracted to also had the Mercury opposition to Neptune.. ) Maybe the most honest people I've ever met (and sometimes brutal have Mars conjunct the Sun (my husband has that too) the best female friend has her Mars/Sun conjunction exactly sextile mine.. which reminds me, she's leaving her husband.. oh well.. be well, svenskasfinx
|
|
|
Post by gemstar on Jun 13, 2006 23:18:28 GMT
Hej..... Just back from my yoga class....what a great feeling!! But I always wonder why I want sweet things when I return home...munchie sort of foods...what is with that?? Anyway.....How about Neptunian influences....perhaps Pisces? The ability to be intro-spective would be something which Piscean influenced people may possess. My Scorp Neptune trines my Cancer Mercury in 9th....so I really like how they gel together. With my Moon in Cancer conjunct there too (9th), it makes it all the more cozy. Regarding Mars-Sun conjunction and brutal honesty, hmm....I have never thought about that. Perhaps the signs might lend more influence to this aspect. Regarding the above posts, I mostly meant the ability to be honest with oneself. Some people can feel that they view others honestly but maybe lack the clarity to see their own flaws. (Meaning-not able to view themselves honestly). Age, experiences which one learned from and simply, different needs define each individual's choices. Those gals in the shop most likely each had different needs than each other and even you. That is why I feel it is difficult to compare your situation with anyone elses. Unless you know each individual's style, personality, needs etc.....it would be impossible to accurately weigh their thoughts/situation with yours. PS---Creating new chapters in one's life is an awesome thing. Leaving a relationship which is not growing in good directions can ultimately be FAR more beneficial in the BIG PICTURE of life. I say BRAVO to those people who desire to create happier lives and choices by letting go of old patterns which no longer work for them....Even if it means going forward alone. It is not the end of the world but is usually the beginning of a new one!! This is something to celebrate!! ;D Hugs- GemStar
|
|
|
Post by AquarianEssence on Jun 15, 2006 12:44:13 GMT
I see relationship that have long term potential to satisfy both partners needs as having the qualities and activities of all 6 spokes of the wheel. You've mentioned the 6th house as being a service role. But to me, now that we are beyond the days of slavery and not too many of us can afford servants, I look at the house more as our daily routines and our = co-worker relationships. If you can't work together harmoniously with hour partner you will have a hard time making it through all the other stuff. The 6th is what prepares us for the 7th. The 7th is the value of the 6th. The 6th is the value of the 5th. The 5th is most important for any kind of relationship. We must BE love, then everything else follows.
We must see ourselves as one with the other (1-7), that we are worthy (2-8), with open communication and minds (3-9), creating a family both within and without (4-10), giving and receiving love (5-11), working together and serving each other needs on a daily basis (6/12). I think the most important place we have the opportunity to make the full circle work is with the 3/9 and 5/11 axis. Here we have a super sextile that can lead to super sex(tile) opportunities. If both partners want a relationship based on real love and honors that we are different but equal, they are willing to exercise their 3/9 muscles connected to the 5/11 heart. In other words, they are willing to fight it out in Love to resolves any differences. The result is renewed and revitalized 5/11 which manifests in 2/8. But then again, 2/8 manifests in 5/11 so the circle keeps on turning.
|
|
|
Post by tom on Jun 15, 2006 23:06:29 GMT
i like seeing houses 4-8 as a development of relationships...most don't progress that way, but i find it important to at least be able to i suppose catch up with any that're missed.
for example, if you have a 7th house relationship without the joy of 5th or the work of 6th, or the trust of 8th, a lot is missing. or if you start in the 5th but never get to the 6th, but try super hard to get to the 8th, it just won't work. (this idea is based in jodie & steven forrest's ideas from their skymates books - they call 4th-8th "the arc of intimacy".)
these houses are for me a literal progression, and i see in my own life that i can't begin anywhere but in the 4th if i want to have a good, solid experience that can feel like a keeper - though i know that's just me and how i work: 4th comfort, rootedness 5th joy, play, fun 6th work, dedication, focus 7th equality (= complimentarity), balance, fairness, mutual support 8th deep trust
it seems to me that keeping an awareness of all these houses can make a really healthy relationship, or at least one that has much more of a chance that one rooted in one house.
the one i'm in now is a lot of 5th house, and we're about to hit the 6th with conscious tantric breath work. but i realize that the 4th house energy was there from the minute we met, and to tell the truth, that's the only reason i felt comfortable being in the 5th with her.
|
|
|
Post by gemstar on Jun 16, 2006 0:46:09 GMT
Nice comments!!
|
|
|
Post by primamateria on Jun 16, 2006 0:58:20 GMT
this is such an interesting and confronting thread... I've logged on a couple of times in the past few days to post on it - but then chickened out!! I'm really kind of freaked about relationships at the moment - more so than at any other time I can remember. An older woman said to me at the weekend 'if you want a man in your life you need to be needier'... this can't be true?? Then Jade said to me that being so independent can mean losing someone! The strangest thing is that when I'd not done a single thing about my personal growth and evolution it was all that much easier to 'relate'... now the more self-contained and content I am, the rarer the opportunity I get to be intimate with anyone. I would have thought the opposite to be true - that the better the 'me' I am, the better the 'other' will be - and the stronger the intimate bond. (I use the word 'better' to mean 'better for me') Instead I am attracting men who seem disinterested, disassociated even (and not ensouled) - but that is not what I mean to project! So how does the house system fit with this? I've been attempting to be a whole human being - to take my whole 'chart' as a microcosmos of Self - a mandala - and yet somehow I must be failing because I am drawing others to me who are in a state of near schism. There must be something seriously wrong! Is this my Nodal return - a kind of fourth-tenth house axis crisis of personal-emotional security mirrored in the world?? I thought I was alright! What is it that we are to see and learn about ourselves in an 'other'? At times everything feels like a statement of 'worth' - isn't that a second house issue? Other times I wonder 'who am I in this?' - a first house/identity thing... in fact I could go around the whole circle and make comments and ask questions - in a relationship all of me is called in...and all of him. ah, just thinking out loud! pm
|
|
|
Post by gemstar on Jun 16, 2006 5:19:45 GMT
Hi Prima.... It is late and I want to reply with some words to comfort you. Hopefully they will not be too loopy as I have been up later than usual (tossing and turning til the wee hours! Probably post-Tango-festival time change still...dancing til 3-4am is a killer on my body time clock for a few weeks!). My main thought to you is that I believe there is a certain balance between being 'centered' and also 'available'. Being available opens you to all sorts of people....and because people seem to be attracted to that certain charisma or kharma from a centered person, you need to sort through them. Weeding. There are a lot of people searching for answers in their lives...yet many do not do the 'work' of examining themselves. Barely taking responsibility for who they are or what they stand for. Maybe some people believe that if they bring someone 'centered' into their lives who is what/who THEY themselves want to be, than they feel they have found a peace of sorts. In actuality, it might be a temporary feeling for that person as their TRUE evolvement shows it's face eventually. But we all know, true centeredness comes from within each of us individually. So...sometimes you meet lots of people...sometimes you meet a lower number than usual....soooooo??? You only need ONE person. AND, you might meet a few cool friends along the way!! Even still, I think it is more difficult to meet people than ever these days....so you take up hobbies which interest YOU and enjoy the process of Life. It is rather odd how the Universe will surprise you when you simply allow things to happen in due time. Personally, I know lots of men (not ones I want) feel attracted to me and I simply enjoy the 'relating'. You know....chatting, discovering....moving on. However, I remain choosey and try my best to not lead anyone on who I am not interested in. My standards are very high for myself and for a potential partner so the wait is a tad longer in-between the relationships. In the meantime, I enjoy lots of friendships with men and keep the boundaries simple with them. Anyone can go out and grab someone to have a relationship with....that is easy. Perhaps many people are simply satisfied for a time to be with SOMEONE....anyone. It seems that many people are happy with having their basic human needs 'mostly' met and figure that it is as good as it gets. I personally know a few folks like that and their relationships are just that....BASIC. Blah. Just OK. Their bar is set in the middle somewhere and they believe that pure love and joy is something of fairy tales. The high level is not attainable. Well Yaaaahhhh...if you don't ask for it or try to be that better person who will attract that kind of love, what can they expect? They don't. They settle. And sometimes, they want you to settle like them-so they feel better about the choice they have made. I notice and sometimes speak my thoughts and other times....let it rest. Why spoil someone's mediocre life choice by reminding them that the bar DOES reach higher if you try!! Well sure....you can not attain somewhere higher if you settle for mediocre. What can someone expect? So...you spend more time with yourself....it is certainly better than a mediocre relationship-Yes? I would think so-but that is me. There is not anyone I would trade places with actually.....so it forces me to be content with where I am at this moment! Sometimes I feel like everyone else has a fantastic home to return to each night....everyone is happy and lovey-dovey....etc....yet, this is an illusion I paint (my mind tries to psyche me out at times!). It is a lonely feeling of course and then after a short bit of self-pity....I shake it off and look for the simplest pleasure to enjoy. Enjoying the peace of that moment. And feeling thankful that my Life is evolving as it should..even despite the transits which might be playing havoc with my life. BTW-Lots of people are having a time of it lately. That Grand Cross in the fixed signs is not pretty and perhaps it is hitting a sensitive place in your chart. Have you checked? I have not read all the information on the 4-10 houses axis...etc....it sounds interesting! There is a bit of each house in me as I develop more, so I feel that it might be a simple theory that is just that...interesting. I do not break my realtionships down on axi such as those. I prefer to focus on the ACTUAL placements and themes of the synastry at hand. Certainly all influences of the houses are part of our development....but I am unsure about this other axis idea. Is is specific to houses where there are actual planets placed there? Or is it random useage of houses? 4-10, 5-11 etc.....my brain is slowing waaaaaaay down as my sleepiness is creeping up on me. Sorry if this is getting a bit muddled in thought. Hey....what is the plural of axis?? Axi?? Axixes? Hee-hee....it is too late for this Gem brain to concentrate on proper pluralities.....ZZZZzzzzzzzz...... Off to la-la land.....Feel Better Prima!! Remember to let the Universe bring you what you need---- when the time is right. In the meantime, be your Best You and continue to Honor your Spirit! Hugs- GemStar
|
|
|
Post by gemstar on Jun 16, 2006 16:29:53 GMT
Hey Jade....you reminded me that I wanted comment on the idea of being more 'needy' to the opposite sex. In some of the books about 'getting the guy', I have read that kind of statement. Basically, if a man does not think he is important or 'needed' by you, possibly he will feel unable to provide whatever it is that a man wants to provide for his mate. Now that women are much more independent than our mothers, society and many men have difficulties with the changes in roles. Yes, it may have been more easily defined in the 50s...the woman stays home and cleans/washes everything and everyone 24/7 while the man earns the money. The man usually had full say in where the money was spent etc.....easier as far as defined roles FOR MEN. Less satisfying for the woman. She might have had to keep her mouth shut if unhappy....afterall, til death do us part meant exactly that back then. There would have been feelings of NO ESCAPE....No way out. It is my personal thought that many of the marriages which have lasted 40-50 years primarily did so because one person gave in...and did their 'duties'....perhaps gave up their 'needs' for the security of the marriage- their primary identity. That is why you hear many, many women in their 70s-80s (we have a large number of older women in Florida) state that they would NEVER marry again. Hmmm......what does that tell you? So maybe we grew up with our parents in more defined roles. That was our example. That was most men's example. So what happens now that women are working and earning a living-often times earning more income than their partner? Ahhhh......what can that bring up? I-N-S-E-C-U-R-I-T-I-E-S. A person(man) might now feel replacable or disposable....where as in the past, the woman might have felt replacable....and very often was the victim of such replacement if she voiced her opinions too loudly. (My parent divorced over this very issue!! My father blames 'Womans Lib' as the reason things changed in their marriage.....duh. Too bad he still believes the world revolves around a MAN being in charge....** Gemstar takes a moment to throw-up on the side**). No thank you!! Now...where does that leave the man who was brought up with one example for marriage and now faces the new and improved REALITY of women today? Confused I might say. It must've been that Pluto/Uranus conjunction in the mid-60s which transformed the options for women and people of color. No doubt that change was long overdue!!! Too bad it is still present in many cultures today....surely I would be stoned to death myself if my Soul had landed elsewhere!! Perhaps as women, we have fought to be treated as valued equals and sometimes forget to keep the door open to 'sharing' our lives with another. By that I mean, valuing a man for the many gifts he brings to us. Appreciating the qualities of HIM, even though we may now have the ability to survive without a man! Sorting through the mate-partner-pile is certainly a task....however, finding the right mate for you is worth the time, isn't it? Finding a secure person who is not threatened by equality is important to the longevity of woman-man relationships these days. Who wants to be a slave to another-whether it is a slave to earning money which is wildly spent by the non-income producing spouse at a shopping mall or the woman whose endless and boring life of same stuff-different day duties and having little to no help from the other inhabitants of that home?? Both scenarios are not pretty. Balance. Synastry. Knowing YOUR needs. Giving to the OTHERs needs. Being happy alone with ourselves or finding additional joy with another!! Expect no more than what you yourself bring to the table.....and accept nothing less. Hugs- GemStar
|
|