Creativity- dynamics in a synastry...

[kimmy]

Hello everybody,

I have this chart of two friends of mine:

A) July 19, 1976- Firenze, Italy – 3.45 pm ( female)
B) February 14, 1965 – Milano, Italy – time unknown ( male)

They are both into arts and are going to begin a project together. I’m looking for the signatures that can show the potential of their creative partnership, if it will have a good outcome ( in professional and personal terms), which kind of difficulties they may have and how and where they can work to overcome them...
The synastry looks quite strong and energetic, with the most of the planets in fixed signs, and strong squares and opposition both in their synastry and individual charts. There are quite exact conjunctions too. Lots of “creative”energy should be going on through the opposition of their Aqua/ Leo stelliums ( it goes on A 3rd-9th houses axis and sounds excellent for mental stimulation, communication and intellectual work). B moon ( even if I lack B exact birth time) sits on A Leo stellium ( it should be good in personal terms as well: intimate, comforting, instant emotional understanding). And there is an exact conjunction (in SCORPIO) of B Neptune on A Ascendant; it widely opposes another wide conjunction in Taurus of AB Jupiter on the edge of A 7th House.
So: a clashing chart, with lot of polarity, but in some way also “balancing”…
The plus:

- A Leo power should be able to warm up the very cerebral Aqua/Virgo type B. B air energy is just what A lack the most in her individual chart, so B presence should be compensating... it all amplified for A because of the House axis. A should be able to get instant understanding of B emotions and needs ( Moon), to give them a shape and maybe having a stabilizing power over them (B Moon on A Venus-Mercury-Saturn). About Saturn: it should be not so “drying” and harsh for B Moon, as it is meshed with Venus and Mercury and near to A Sun too. Do you agree?

The difficulties (what I need to understand better):
- B Saturn exactly opposes A Mars on A 4th-10th house/career axis and that sounds quite harsh and “freezing, a sort of “out of time”… how do you think it could work in their interplaying?

- B Neptune- A Ascendant conjunction: how to read Neptune here? Higher Inspiration or BIG deception? And how does this signature works in both of them? I mean: Neptune ( impersonal planet for B) sits on A angle and it should affect A very powerfully and personally ( A is also very NEptunian herself, with natal Neptune in 1st house)…But how does A Ascendant work for B ( it sits on an impersonal planet of him)…is it not equally influenced? Is it a sort of one-way stream?

Sorry if it all sounds as a “supermarket list” and I’ve been so long ( shortness is not a big gift I have got, and yet I’m not very used to English and to post on a Forum!) So Forgive me…
I ‘d love to get your thoughts.
Thanks for your time.
Love, Kimmie

[Aphrodite]

Hi Kimmie. Welcome!

I would like to share my Neptunian experience with you. Mind you, a discussion of one planet and the aspects does not make for an entire chart reading. So, please take my comments in context.

I have natal Neptune/Scorpio in my 1st house (Moon and Jupiter/Chiron in Pisces, too). Since it is a generational planet, I encounter more people with their Neptune in my 1st house than elsewhere. So I barely notice when it happens. For me, Neptune in my 2nd house is more of a problem. These people leave me broke!

People with 1st house Neptune can easily create an illusion, which most people will accept without delving into. With Libra rising and Neptune in a grand trine with Venus and Jupiter, I can literally pour the best of myself through Neptune (smoke and mirrors!) and within seconds have everyone I meet think I'm the sweetest little kitten in the world. ;D First impressions can be quite lasting, so I have to be careful! Conversely, when I meet people I do have to take care to project something positive, else that be misinterpreted, too! I have to constantly think about who I am and what I wish to represent. Then I have to use all my faculties to clearly express myself. This is a lot of work! One can't be "on" all the time. Understandably, I need alone time to disconnect with others, else I set up an exhausting emotional / "psychic bleed" that continues until I have nothing left to give. Neptune connects on some level with most everything in my chart, so I need time out for soul level maintenance on a regular basis. Most people are convinced that I am an extravert and are shocked when they find out how introverted I really am!

So now your question: Higher Inspiration or BIG deception?

Higher inspiration is certainly a possibility, if one has the strength and commitment to take the high road. BIG deception is also a possibility. The low road is so much easier. Most likely these individuals will experience both. In fact, it is the inability of mere mortals to live up to their own high ideals or to get others we meet to live up to their "perceived" potential that creates the deception.

With Neptune, the truth becomes the lie and the lie becomes the truth. Neptune has the ability to express as pure love (AGAPE) and when two individuals share this planet so closely - it is there. The love is there. However, most people cannot muster the trust or courage to accept this kind of love or to return it. It is rare to find this energy operating mutually at it's highest octave of expression. Instead, it often expresses as Savior/Victim mentality. Neptune is not a personal planet. There is nothing "HUMAN" about it. But we mortals interact with it in very human ways. So we deceive and hurt ourselves and others with it's energy. But the beauty of Neptune's loving nature allows us to forgive and to heal. Doing the "work" that Neptune requires is hard. Quite often, nothing less than total sacrifice and commitment is required. However, when we do what is required, the reward is there. We must experience and master both sides of this energy before we can advance to the next stage of our evolutionary growth. Therefore, I suspect that this pair has come together to experience an opportunity for soul growth as much as for the creative potential of the project.

I feel that any planet in the first house can be a mixed blessing until you gain experience in dealing with all that personal energy. It is pretty easy to take advantage of an inexperienced 1st house Neptune. Frequently the individual "sacrifices" themselves voluntarily! The female might be old enough to be aware of some of the issues and hopefully has learned to control the message she sends. Unfortunately, if she has intent to deceive and really knows how to send out that smoke screen, she could do some real damage. The synastry aspects can go both ways, too. Therefore, with Neptune, the (dis)illusion and confusion can go both ways, as well. She can be badly used! Examine Pluto closely to understand how she handles that. Scorpio rising might want to destroy the offending party, but Neptune is telling her she must turn away, she must sacrifice herself. This is her cross to bear or nail someone else to.

So, in her relationship with this gentleman, it is extremely important that she think through who she is and what role she will play in his life. Then she must take extra care to ensure that she has conveyed these decisions to him. Finally, they both fully understand and accept the decisions. This energy works both ways. With his Neptune right there, the importance is tripled! We have a major MUTUAL USER relationship developing here, whether either party will admit it or not.

I'm not saying that deliberate deception will be a problem. However, there is enough of an age difference between the two, misunderstanding could be a real issue. (I'm not going to sidebar here into all the parental themes in their charts. Just a mention.) With Scorpio rising she may assume (consciously or unconsciously) that she can totally dominate and control every aspect of the relationship. At first, she may even be satisfied that she is in complete control, because he may seem very open minded and mallable (he's not!). Most likely has misjudged her, too, and thinks it is the other way around.

With Neptune in the 1st it is best to remember the old adage, "What you put out in this world you get back times three." So here is the basis for a classic co-dependent - passive/aggressive relationship. It can take some time for all this to fully play out (although probably already in full force!), but it will unless they both pay attention to what is going between them and ALWAYS CHOOSE THE HIGH ROAD. Also, you pointed out a few other aspects that this couple must work on in order to be successful partners. Both individuals must make the commitment to complete honesty with themselves and with each other, else they will not like to reap what they have sown. In addition, these two have some very powerful aspects in the composite chart. The energy is very strong and they have much to work with for good or ill (and there is much good!). It is their choice. Much depends on where they are on their individual path of evolutionary growth.

My final Neptunian advice: GET IT IN WRITING!

Well, I am please to meet you Kimmy and thank you for offering me a chance to express my own Neptunian energy.

Light and love to you,

Aphrodite

P.S. You didn't ask about transits, but I was just noting the upcoming full moon. It occurs at 00 TAU/SCO 43 - dead on her Moon/Ceres/Psyche square and everything else attached to that - including her stellium and his Moon, I think. He has the asteroids Agapenor @ 00LEO08 (square aspect) and Child @ 01PIS32 (sextile/trine aspect with transiting Saturn in opposition). Transiting Saturn will oppose his Natal Saturn (which is conjunct his natal asteroid "House"!) in the upcoming months. It is currently conjunct their composite "Pandora". Sounds more like a co-dependency than a partnership. But there is just sooooo much going on here!

[kimmie]

Hi Aphrodite!

Nice to meet you and Thank You for your attention, for sharing your experience to me! I love your Neptunian insight ad outlook, and your writing is so very pleasant to be read! I personally love Neptune and adore people who own Neptunian traits... They always caught my attention, I love that something “eteheral” and unearthy they seem to possess, be it in their expression, facial features, or just that something in their gestures or attitudes. And I always find AMAZING every time how much Astrology can give so exact, keen, “graphic” clues/ keys to read everything it happens. I’m thankful twice, because you are way long more skilled and insightful in reading charts, I’m still on a quite superficial level, your wise insights are a real help to me.

The “picture” you made is so detailed and …

- I confirm it: the Misunderstanding Issue you described so well is there in A-B story, already happened: met in 2004, something broke between them at the end of 2005, and they stopped talking each other for almost 1 year. I have no info or clues about the exact nature of the misled, but I know ( from A) that she suffered a lot because of that separation, and it was her the one who close herself the most to any attempt of reconciliation with B for many months. I had read it all as a Leo/ Aqua dynamic and a problem of communication among them ( 3rd/9th axis and AB Mercury opposed): the stubborn and aloof Aqua B hurting at some level A Leo pride which regally denied her attention to him. I was thinking about it as a PRIDE issue. But now your observation put everything in a more deep and complex perspective. Eventually they did regain the contact at the end of 2006. Now they seem close again and willing to do something together, despite anything it could have be happening among them. Sounds very in tune with your observation! Fascinating. About their knowledge level ( my personal opinion, I know both of them personally) I consider them two very high-minded and soulful types. Both very idealistic as much as they both are stubborn. A is much more less life-experienced than B, and , yes, trying to cope w/ her dizzy and compassionate Neptune in 1st. I do can add that they do love each other very very much, from what my experience and observation on them has been. It’s something near to “nurturing”, completely accepting each other ( I guess due to the Moon contacts), a very strong bond, but it is not tasting as a “sexual” thing. And she looks like the strongest one. A talks often about “recognition” went on among them.…So maybe they could really be into the the full of this the Neptunian AGAPE lesson… For sure I’ll keep on observing and collecting facts… I’ll be able to tell you more, if you are interested, along with the developing of the events.



- Pluto: Pluto contacts are saying something “deep” and different to the Fire / Air energies of their traits ( A Pluto trines B Venus in earth sign; B Pluto in Virgo stellium w/Mars-Uranus conjunct A mars sounds “explosive”, some astrology interpretation see it as VIOLENCE! It also trines other planets…). Control issues seems to be there. The Earth force is there also in their Jupiters conjunction in sensual Taurus ( cusp of her 7th house)… the neptunian Agape conjuction is just – in the chart- in front of it… it’s like a polarity they seem to go through ( it’s the one that B also owns NATALLY!) …and maybe not only Agape love is the one they can or could be experiencing… what do you think?

- You mentioned about the “parental themes”. What do you mean with it? Do you mean Moon or mercury, the stuff related to “sibilings axis ( 3rd/9th)?

- THANKS for the transit look you gave to me. I’m totally new to Asteroids dynamics ( that’s why I’m here and passionately reading everything each one in this forum is sharing about it!) and not good at all with transit’s lectures yet… The dynamic you wrote me about sounds complex and important, isn’t it? Could you please ( IF and WHEN you have time) help me with the meaning of that configuration? What is going to happen? Is there anything particular they need to know and care about? Hope anything worrying...

- You mentioned Asteroid HOUSE: has it something to do with “material house”? Person B has actually some issues about that...

I’ll love to keep on writing! I hope you too, I’ll be always pleased to read your observations and experiences. You can also contact me at [e-mail]. anytime when there is the risk to fill the forum with too wide discussion ( and I apologize w/ everyone in the Forum if I’m long and off topic at time…).

Thanks again! Love, kimmie

[Aphrodite]

Hi Kimmie,

I wish that I had more time. Some of your questions are beyond the scope of what's feasible to discuss on a message board. That's why I picked only one aspect to discuss. Of course, whenever I try to discuss Neptune I go on and on for days and never quite feel that I got it all out correctly. Perhaps I shouldn't sidebar so much, eh? For me, it is hard to explain or discuss because, 1) it is so personal to me, and 2) hey, it's NEPTUNE we were talking about! LOL!

I am glad that I got at least part of it right.

I do try to contribute to the board when I can, but mostly can't do too much because of the time factor. Also, I am not a professional astrologer and have a busy life far removed from the topic. However, your post came at a time when I had to personally choose what to do with Uranus bang on my 5th hs Pisces Moon square 8th hs Gemini Mercury/Juno. I've got some other interesting transits as well. I was searching for a way to use the energy and not be used by it. Suddenly deciding to spend the entire evening delving into the creativity aspects of the charts of two strangers seemed like just the ticket. It was kind of a "serve or suffer" thing, which I was glad to be able to put to use.

So I can't get into everything, but here is a little bit.

Parental themes:

Ceres smack in the middle of a tight Sun/Mercury/Venus stellium in the composite chart. Can't say anything more about it because we do not know what house that falls in. You would need his birth time.

Her Cancer Sun, conjunct Ceres/Mercury and square her Moon/Chiron in Taurus. That's a lot of energy that has to go somewhere!

He has similar contacts, but more complex. Ceres conjunct Mercury/Venus, and the Sun probably gets in there too. Ceres contacts most everything in his chart, including the Moon's nodes. We don't know his birth time, but I got a contraparallel to the Moon using NOON. This is probably wrong, but you never know. Seems a little too coincidental.

Which I will use to segway into the asteroids...

I don't get too wrapped up in most of the itty bitty ones. I glance at bunches of them and disregard almost all of them. Of course, I use the big four, plus Chiron. But the other asteroids are not usually significant by themselves. I only include them when they are in tight contact with something else that is going on. When I say tight, I mean a conjunction within 1 degree of aspect, and anything else connected to that. I find that the asteroids will 1) add detail and, 2) confirm the larger picture. They tend to show up coincidentally! Also, unless there is a mythological connection, you interpret them literally. So, "Beagle" is nothing more than a DOG! Now I have cats, not dogs, which makes sense because "Kitty" is in my 7th hs conjunct the descendant (remember - within 1 degree!). Why would I have a dog as my partner?

Here's another example: In my Natal chart, Aphrodite is conjunct Astarte and one of my personal name asteroids in the 7th house. Guess what? Venus is my chart ruler (Libra rising)! So I find this relevant, however, only as a footnote. If Venus was not my chart ruler and those asteroids were in my 6th house, I wouldn't even give it a second glance.

So, now you know how I got my moniker! ;D

Now for your question about "House". A little background:

I have been tracking asteroid #4950 House because I have one of those condos in California that can't be sold for any price. House is conjunct Uranus in my 10th house and sextile the Ascendant and Ceres (Yes, all that within 1 degree of aspect. Remember about the Kitty asteroid on the descendant? It seems I was destined to have kitty partners living in my house! ;D). Despite all the financial crap that has been going on here in the US housing market lately, it has been fun to watch in the aspects of House in my personal chart and the charts of people around me. It seems like every place I turn, there it is.

So I'm looking at the charts of your friends and thinking that there is a lot more going on between these two than a creative project. Which one of them is broke and needs a home? Then I look at the transits and see his Saturn transit and... Oh look! There's HOUSE again! LOL! Coincidence?

Well, that's all the time I can commit to this. Good luck to you!

Love and light to you - always!

Aphrodite