Combust and Confused

[AquarianEssence]

Right now Sun is conjunct Saturn along with being parallel him, Mercury, Venus and Mars within 8.5 degrees. So that means all those planets are virtually without power right now and any question concerning them would have no as the answer, correct? If so, that would put Moon in a powerful position right now, by declination as long as she is in signs not in major aspect to the Sun.

So my next question is when significator of querent is Capricorn and Saturn, making significator of quiested the Moon and Cancer, does that then disqualify Moon as being co-significator of querent? Or does that transfer the power of the quiested to the querent?

[Juliet]

Hey Aqua, I'm not sure. Will try to find something. My own opinion: I should take the Moon here as representing the quesited and the course of events. Strange, I've never had a chart with that situation, only the other way around: Cancer as querent, that was easy.

Could there be some answer in this configuration, (Saturn combust, no Moon 'available' to represent the querent)? Could it relate to your question? Is there another significator available for you? I assume it's about you, otherwise the solution would be to turn the chart...

With Cancer on the DC, is Saturn in 7 or 8?

[AquarianEssence]

Saturn in 8th. The question was, since I couldn't get a readable chart with the other questions...Are my children just as well of with Bob, my ex as they are with me. July 30, 06 7:17 pm, asc 8 Cap 25. I was really putting my ego and intuition on the line with this one. But I always force myself to see things as honestly as possible.

I guess this configuration could be the answer. There would be no mother there. No there is no other significator available for me. I thought of looking at it from the point of view of the 5th. But this would give the same answer, I think, which would be no because even though Moon squares Venus at the descendant she is also combust the Sun so has no power and according to what I read the answer is no.

I looked at both Placidus and Reg to see if it made a difference but it didn't. What was interesting is that my ex's Sun is on the 2nd cusp of the Reg chart and the degree square his 9th house Scorpio Moon is on the 2nd of the Placidus chart. His Moon is the apex of a t-square with Pluto and Jupiter-Sun. Why is it always about money? In this case we could look at it being about the 10th house parent of the 5th.

Another interesting thing is that Mars is at the degree of my son's Sun intercepted in the 8th. And even Mars is within 8.5 degrees combust. This one bothers me a lot.

[Amoroso]

Aqua,

Could you post the chart so we could see? Maybe we can be of more help with the whole visual.

Amoroso

[Juliet]

Yes, please, although I won't have time the coming days...
My first impression: you are symbolized by Saturn and he is symbolized by Moon, fits the question exactly. You are a father too, he is a mother too. These symbols tell a story of their own. But that is my first impression. I don't see any of the aspects of course.

I wish you strength.
Juliet
Aqua, Combustion is but one of the accidental debilities, here is a table:
www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html

[AquarianEssence]

I haven't been able to find another way to get these images other than copy image in Winstar and paste in Paint in my accessories programs. I tried making it bigger but it didn't work. So here it is:

[AquarianEssence]

Oh cool, I guess all I had to do is save it as a gif rather than jpg file.

[AquarianEssence]

Well according to the link above, my score makes me worthless. Looking at the chart after seeing this list brings back all the painful memories of our divorce. There he is, the Moon in the court environment claiming I am an unfit mother, neglecting their education all of a sudden after nearly 20 years of home schooling without a complaint from him. And there are part of my children with him, ready to help him for some reason. See Satan, me, being burned by the Sun/father? I'm really getting tired of having Lilith forced on me.

So my significator combust Sun says no they are not just as well of with him than me. But the Lilly score says I'm about 13 in the hole and lacking fitness. He's not much better off with Moon square Venus and in mutual reception but that doesn't even help because she is combust Sun, not getting burned as bad as me though. The only thing he has going for him is Moon sextile Pluto in his 6th, an opportunity to work. I was booted out. And Pluto shows about what he makes an hour. Guess its worth more than me according to a lot of peoples value system.

[Juliet]

Hi Aqua!

Aqua, this apparently is such a painful situation for you, I doubt if horary charts are the answer. Is there no one to advice you irl?
Horary charts are not made of iron, I believe it was Jade who stated it before...

Saturn is formally in 8 yes, but just leaving 7.
The kids are Venus and they are one deg removed from the degree of Jupiters exaltation.

Synchronicity. I hired a book on horary by Karen Hamaker-Zondag, and what was on the first page it fell open to:
(transcript) ' The Moon here presents us with a problem: she is co-significator of the querent, but also significator of the quesited.' She then continues to state Moon can be used for both parties anyway, the chart will provide an answer, by turning the chart for instance, when looking at your ex's perspective.

Please find someone to talk to!
Juliet

[AquarianEssence]

I'm sorry Juliet, no I'm on my own here. My parents are part of the problem, Lilith, you know. In fact, Jupiter is transiting my BML right now. He is my most powerful, least friction body so I just have to trust. I'll be all right, I always have been. I just have to process somehow. I can tell this whole subject has been uncomfortable for you. Thank you for your input.

This chart confirms why my children have reacted to me this way. I am the mother not him. But it clearly looks like he's doing a lot of talking. Since the Moon only reflects the light of the Sun, his current position is rather debilitabing to all around. Sun even burns all boundaries in this position. Notice my house is empty while his is rather full. While we were married I played the role of both mother and father almost exclusively. Moon is placed in the same house as in Bob's natal with the 3rd, Taurus the missing leg in his t-square. His mom's a strange character. You would think she worked with Moon in 6th of 4th but she didn't, not in her whole life. In fact she never even got a driver's licence until he did. She never attended school functions. She finally got some friends when she joined a senior group. As far as the 9th house, he started college but quit after 6 months and managed to get 3 of 4 kids so far to work with him rather than continue their education. My oldest graduated with an electrical engineering degree at 29. Also it was his mother-in-law to be that hooked us up, my step mom and dad. I just noticed that his mother's Sun is on the ascendant. He really did want a mother more than a mate and that is probably why he's attacked my motherhood so furiously. I don't have her birth time but the ephemeris shows this 11th cusp as her Moon degree and this is his point of mother, My moon is a couple degrees later, void or sleeping.

Venus is in Mercury's term and face. Mercury is in the degree of my Photographica. This again reminds me of my ex's porn that keeps showing up in my children's hands. I mentioned my son's Sun with Mars, the other son still at home has his Sun intercepted in 2nd exactly opposite of Mars, ruled by Jupiter who has some dignity being in his own term and Mars face. I'm concerned that the light is void and it is deep, in over his head. Since he rules the 10th of the 5th, it looks like this parent doesn't have a clue what's going on. Jupiter also rules the 8th of the 5th or my 12th, while I'm sleeping? Venus in Mercury's term and face conjunct Mercury with her ruling the 11th computer of the 7th again brings back the porn issue. The older boy would be the 5th, but the younger one would also be the 7th, so this complicates it even further. But it clearly shows him as the one that I know found the porn after our separation and he is the one opposing me currently. The only aspect to Venus within moiety of orb is sextile Moon so he has an opportunity here but it's Venus only contact. The last aspect was a trine to Uranus.

When Mercury first hit 21Cancer Venus was at 22Taurus antiscion the Sun. That would also be considered combust. Sun was where our marriage Sun was, 26Gemini so that would have been our anniversary.

The interception says to me that because the Virgo/Pisces balance hasn't happened there is a deficiency in 4/10 that has been projected onto 5/11. That could be a lack of self esteem, money or sexual deficiency projected onto the children. Does my ex have the attitude that I failed to do my duty (Virgo) as his wife in satisfying his sexual needs (Pisces) which knows no boundaries and that is what is projected onto them. Jupiter is in the house of the children's obligation and work. I've been told it is my work and they shouldn't be made to do it. My ex almost raped me during our last year together which was celibate. He grabbed ahold of me and demanded his "marital rights", as he put it. I was so scared. I finally got his arm off me and accidently drew blood. Usually my nails were cut but they weren't at this time. I grabbed the phone and ran to the bathroom and locked the door. I still didn't call the police, I called my dad. Not sure why. He just said don't worry, he's sure he wouldn't do anything, knowing I'd called him. During my divorce dad told me I had no right living in that home if I wasn't going to give my husband sex. Needless to say, I don't have much respect for my dad or ex any more. The intercepted failure couldn't be my debt to him because I gave him the $40,000 for the house a year before I had to.

The Vertex is my ascendant. Besides being parallel the Sun and all the others, therefore castrated, it is also contra parallel Neptune and Pluto, objecting to the lack of boundaries regarding Pluto issues. Moon in this chart is conjunct my Poseidon, the mirror, truth, refraction of light. The mirror was used as protection from Medusa to cut off her head. Mars is contra-antiscion my Medusa always prominent when I'm booted out of a job. Her head then serves as a protective shield.

If any of my suspicions are true, my hands are tied unless they will tell me. And would they ever if they are being told it's their obligation because of my failure? Or worse yet, if they feared I would be hurt. I'm sure they know all the attacks on my car are him. And Nathaniel is the one who found his dad's lighter at the door of my car when a check he owed me for a dental bill was stolen the day after I finally got it from him. It took me 2 years to get him to replace that check.

[Amoroso]

Aqua,

Several other thoughts--

You (Saturn) ARE separating from the Sun, moving into your 8th house of Transformation. In horary, if a planet appears in the last 5 degrees of a house, it is considered IN the next house. You are already becoming clear, or separate, from him at some level.

Ivy G-J, one of Kim's horary-astrology-heroines, states that a chart--any chart, not just horary, needs 3 indications that something is so before an astrologer can declare it. This Saturn moving in to 8th is seconded by Moon, as your co-ruler (as Juliet stated, she can stand for both of you) in an upcoming trine to Pluto. You are under some transformation, hidden in the 12th, psychological process, something to that effect.

If we are looking for a third indicator that you are undergoing transformative change which is to your ultimate good (god that sounds so high-falootin' and not at all acknowledging your painful place right now..sorry--.) I would take a look at Neptune in the second, which is on the 8th/2nd axis. Something in your "house of values" is confused, deceived or enchanted. Well, that's a fine group of adjectives, but I think the answer to that is found in your wording in your last post:

"My score makes me worthless" and
"tired of having BML forced on me."

First of all, Lilly's scoring does not make you worthless. Horary is a moment in time, a brief glimpse into things at the time you asked the question. In that brief moment, I respectfully suggest that you were feeling quite POWERLESS in this situation, but that is quite different than your worth Is that what you meant to say? And the fact that you are in separating aspect from the Sun is important.

I know SO many women, myself included, that at some really deep level define their sense of worth by the money they make. I have been through this, too. It is especially crippling to women who are trying to raise kids and work. If I work harder, faster, smarter, if I make more money, I will be finally be worthy because the family, my man, my father, my sons will see my worth, they will respect what I have to say more if I have money behind me and let then do whatever they want then I will be worthy.

And THAT, Aqua, is the real BML speaking. Your second phrase "tired of having BML forced on me" revealed what that Neptune in the second may be all about. She is defiantly riding your back right now, but perhaps not in the negative way you are interpreting Her. She is screaming for you to define worth and values and effectiveness in a totally new manner.

Transformation indeed.

Horary is just a moment in Time.

I write this with the best of intentions.

Blessings,
Amoroso

[AquarianEssence]

Thank you so much, Amoroso. I totally agree with you. When I wrote those things, it is exactly what boys dad says and feels. I was speaking his actions. And to a certain extent, my sons in that they are only treating me the way that is acceptable to their dad. They get more attention from him this way. None of them ever had a problem with me as their mom before the separation. He never praised even their most outstanding accomplishments but now they are getting encouragement from him.

As for Lilith, I don't see her as negative but she is used in that way. I know I married a man like my dad because I was born into this family to be Lilith, the real Lilith that honored, worshipped and obeyed her God, above her husband. I'm not too sure the original story of Lilith had God punishing her and taking away her children. I think the original story is that she was a vestal, serving to unite man with God but Adam expected her to submit and serve him only. When my ex complained I made him babysit (his sons) while I went to the art shows to try and sell my art he was in fact saying I couldn't expect him to share responsibility for our children and allow me to share any part of myself with someone other than him even if my God/higher self called me to do that. What is being forced on me is my dad's, his, and many other mens revision of this ancient myth, one that serves their selfish insecure purposes.

I know my worth, my weakness and strengths. It's just that it isn't being acknowledged by them or the world at large. I know that on another plane I am valued, shown by the fact that whatever I need is always there for me. Even when I am kept from taking care of myself, the universe takes care of me. My mother and father are of the spiritual plane, my guardian angels making sure I can do whatever it is I'm here to do. And I'm sure this is at least part of it.

Yes, Saturn is really speaking from the 8th. There is a lot going on astrologically, with me now. Pluto is trine Pluto, Saturn-Neptune on asc-desc, Uranus has just opposed my Sun, Jupiter will soon trine Jupiter and Uranus but before that. And when the Saturn Netpune opposition is perfecting my natal Uranus square Neptune which was separating at birth, will be completely over by converse progression, separated by 1 degree. The Jupiter-Uranus square Neptune-Venus has been my biggie, the only applying major tension aspect in my chart, so that is a real turning point. Since Neptune rules my 8th, it is especially so.

Thanks again,
Connie