Do I already know my next guy?

[Juliet]

Hi everyone!
I'd like some fresh eyes to see and help me with this horary.
I've been without a relationship for quite while now, and asked if I know my next bf. Had a time of rather grave depression for some months, but feel better now, ready to contribute here once more. Moon has just left 6, the house of illness. I was officially diagnosed.

This is the chart. I put Hera and Juno -for illustrative reasons only- in since they are the asteroids of commitment, and I'd like a committed relationship, not an affair. The funny thing is I had not used Hera in a chart before, and here it is in the exact degree of the AC, a nice description of my state of mind.



Initially I saw a straightforward Yes, since my co-ruler Moon and 'his' ruler Venus are both strong in Tau, and formally both in 7, which seems apt.

But the applying conjunction is prohibited by the sextile Moon will make to Mercury in intercepted Cancer, in 8. Moon is co-ruler of 8 because of that interception.
Mercury is in Moon's sign, Jup's exaltation, Venuses term and Moon's face, a nice position with these beneficiaries. But is Mercury another person, or a 'thing'? It is ruler of 8 and 10. Cusp of 10 is midpoint my natal Mars and Mercury. Work? Emotional, transformative work I still need to do? It is something I relate to, because Mercury is received by my co-ruler.

The conjunction to Venus will be the last aspect of Moon anyhow, which feels very comforting to me. Things will end well, on the DC!
Mars is my ruler. There is no applying aspect from Venus to it, but there is a close parallel within 28 minutes, a YES. Mars furthermore is ruler of 1 and 5, the house of fun, sex, music and children. It is in Leo, the theatrical sign, and Leo's ruler is in 8 again...
I tend to fall for technical, very musically gifted guys and used to work in theatre, with musicians and theatre technicians mostly. Am looking for another position there now.
I'd appreciate any imput! Who or what could Mercury be? Venus? It rules 11 too, a friend?? Cusp 11 is exactly on my natal Venus.
Thank you.
Juliet

[AquarianEssence]

I ran across this link while browsing this morning you might like: www.skyscript.co.uk/deginf1.html#can It has Ptolemy's dignities and debilities. Under the luminosity column which perhaps can also be read as knowing or not knowing along with light or dark complexion, degrees are listed as being light, dark, smokey or void. The descendant degree is male and light according to this. Venus, the ruler is male and dark. If we look at desc. as the appearance and the ruler as to wether you know him or not, I would say you can see him but you don't know him. The ascendant is void and male. He describes the void as having little understanding. Lord of the ascendant is male, smokey and deep. Deep means in over their head and needs help from outside. Very fitting. Moon is light and male showing again, you can see him, if light can be interpreted as knowledge or ability to see.

Apparantly, Ptolemy did use it this way according to what he says for the void quality of luminosity. According to him, my Moon degree says I'm not to bright and more you get to know me the more obvious it will become. I hope my Moon being void eliminates this if it is true because I don't want to think of myself as stupid. My Mercury would also be void according to this.

Hopefully someone who follows traditional astrology will have some insight here. Wouldn't Moon 4*conjunct Venus mean you may run into him in 4 hours, days or weeks? Not sure how timeing works. Isn't Venus quintile to Mars? That looks like a creative project or oportunity. Mars in his 3rd, communications. Mars separating square to Jupiter by the same distance as his separation from Saturn. I wonder if he was recently (2degrees) separated or divorced. Saturn can be endings and Jupiter is marriage, the husband. I realize Mars is you but you may be reflecting the energy of this person if the square and conjunction don't fit your past. I think we put out the energy we want to draw in when we are thinking about something.

Just some thoughts. Hope it helps.

[Juliet]

Yes, a whole lot. Thank you, Aqua!
About that Jupiter representing the husband, is it a rule you always use, or is it something you interpreted from this chart??
And I believe we can write Ptolemy's rules off whenever we see fit!

[Amoroso]

Dearest Juliet,

Just a brief observation or two--

Isn't the Moon's last aspect to the NN in your 4th?
and
Venus also rules the 11th (or did you say that?) It looks like he may be a friend or part of some arts' group with which you associate.

As you know, traditional Horary doesn't use Jupiter as a husband/male significator, but I believe traditional Vedic astrology does. And I read something recently where the astrologer uses the Sun and Jupiter (not Mars) to signify a woman's animus.

Not staying around the forum much these days but wanted to say HI and say I am glad you are feeling better.

Love,Amoroso

[AquarianEssence]

I think traditionally, Jupiter relates to Uncles, ministers, attorneys etc. But since Zeus was the great husband in myth I think of him that way if it's about those things, or as the common law husband. I think of Venus-Aphrodite as the wife along with Juno. I would like to know how much the classic rules fit and don't. If something is true it continues to be true. We may add more meanings or not have the whole picture though. I also think that the new planets need to be included into the ancient techniques if we are to hold to truth, along with updating the language.

Jupiter does fit being both a minister and an uncle along with husband in my chart. I have two ministers, one on each side of my family; an uncle and grandfather. Jupiter is conjunct Uranus (grandfather) in my 12th, large institutions, in Cancer, family. They both stood side by side as the officiators of my first wedding. My grandpa was offended I had my uncle to the main part of the ceremony though. Jupiter is 1st. Grandpa closed with prayer after words. The conjunction also fits being in the 6th of the 7th as my husband's irratic but usually stable work in the construction field. I never knew what time he would be home. And both husbands have thrown me for a loop on more than one occasion.

[Amoroso]

Dear Aqua,

You raise a good point and one that I am not qualified to answer. But after studying Horary for a year and consulting a few other astrologers, I lean towards conservative interpretations of Horary as the ones that have I have experienced "coming true." An example is the aspect of the opposition, which lends so much strength if used in a mindful manner in natal, composite and synastry charts, simply means something quite different in Horary.

That being said, many horary astrologers still do not use the outer planets, and I am quite comfortable including them.

Normally I am pretty progressive, but I do still wonder about Horary. For example, horary said I would "hear" from a certain person in 2 weeks time, and the aspect was a quincunx. That exact date that horary said I would hear from him, he came to me in a very powerful dream. Quincunx, indeed!

But if you have examples of Horary where you used Jupiter in the manner you are describing and it came to be, please post or share with us. Very interested!

Still learning,
Amoroso

[blueorchids]

Wow! That Venus Moon conjunction seems to say green light majorly!! I don't see Mercury coming through in sextile as a problem, is that an indication that another party through COMMUNICATION (in cancer--nurturing) will bring you together?


Interesting enough his Sybian Symbol is Taurus 29:

2 Cobblers are talking animatedly as they work. A Talkative lover of debate with the natural ability to entertain. Thinking takes precedence, and the emotions are apt to be neglected. Feels an urge to explore and analyze. Often talented, but disputes over details may leave talents thwarted.

TWO GARRULOUS OLD COBBLERS WORK SEATED ON AN OLD BENCH A symbol of discursive reason, the battle of "pros and cons" within the inner being. Analytical, recapitulative judgement. When positive, the degree is a recognized integrity as an outer sign of exceptional talents, and when negative a willingness to putter the years away at tasks devoid of all personal meaning.
He is in 6th (daily details/ work) conjunct to the 7th. I am intrigued by the work connection and the notion of exceptional talents but also perhaps talent not in full bloom because of the attention to tiny details...cobblers as artisans, technicians and yet there is artistry there too.. Since you are so close to him in the horary, I would assume you indeed do know him. So who do you think it is...

[AquarianEssence]

Amoroso, I'm a real beginner with horary. I thought, though, that the quincunx wasn't even used traditionally. I have a lot to learn about the rules though.

Juliet, you'll have to let us know how Jupiter fits in after you figure out who the mystery man is. I'm anxious to find out. Or if it could represent you being divorced or ending a relationship 2 degrees ago.

[Amoroso]

Yes, I would've thought the quincunx in horary was a non-traditional aspect but both Ivy G-J and Anthony Louis swear by it.
They also use the 135 degree aspect!

So far all my horary qunicunx's have come to pass.

Wow, three posts in one day. So much for my self-imposed exile!
Thanks, A and Juliet!

Amoroso

[Juliet]

Will come back tomorrow to this post, but am feeling really happy and grateful for all your help!!!
Hi Amoroso you are right about the NN.

Love to you all!
Juliet

[Juliet]

Dear Forum,

Took some time, but here I am.
I'm bad at grasping term like Prohibition and Frustration (who'd like to remember those kinda words anyway?) but BO, (thanks for the Sabian text, I loved it!) the sextile from Moon to Mercury really prevents the conjunction from Moon to Venus to perfect.
It is not grave here, since moon is co-ruler and tells what will happen and the conjunction will be there anyway.
Also, I already got a YES to my question with the parallel from Mars and Venus.

What I like is that the chart is so graphic, with that Moon-Venus conjunction on the angle. Changes will be important and strong with that fixed Tau there, I expect 'it' to take 4 months. And with Venus also ruling 11: what could be better then a guy who is also a friend?
There's one big complication now: since my depression I've been avoiding all men except for my very best friend, my sons and my brother. Working on it though!

Since I was so curious to know who or what that interfering Mercury presents, I asked another question about that. The chart was graphic again. I got Virgo (my Sun sign) as the Ascendant, on natal Eros, and Mercury retro, returning to 10. Also, the MC of the chart is Gemini, which makes Mercury my ruler and the ruler of work. Mercury was ruler of 10 and 8 in the original question. I am dedicated to finding another job and career, so I feel Mercury represents these efforts. The new chart actually had Venus on the MC, and I hope to find a job in the arts again.

It actually takes me some digging (Mercury in emotional Cancer in 8) to get back on career track, and I have all the help I need now!

My ruler Mars will make a trine to the POF in 11 next. And is not received by Venus at all, but will move to Venuses term in two degrees. Venus is received by Mars in its term, Mars obviously likes Venus, but Mars is in detriment where Venus is. Venus is a lot stronger, and very much 'with' himself.
For a description of his physique:
www.skyscript.co.uk/venus_att.html#48back

Saturn and Jupiter seem important here, since they occupy the exact same degree. I'll get back to that later. Gotta go!
Love to all!
Juliet

[AquarianEssence]

Could Mercury be a little too nervous? Mercury in Cancer is feeling oriented rather than logical thought oriented. Could be a nervous stomach and the cat's got his tongue.

[Kim Falconer]

These are wonderful and thorough explorations of this question! Much to think about.

I would agree with the YES, you 'know' him, or know of him because of the parallel of declination between rulers. I also think you will 'know' him a whole lot better in 'four' (4 degrees, as Aqua. mentions)...not hours though...but 4 weeks or months...even up to 4 years! Aren't we coming up to 4 weeks now? Eyes wide open, Juliet!

The fixed nature of the co-ruler and his ruler makes it more difficult to pin down the time.

Mercury in this chart can tell you 'where your head is at'. It is in your 8th...and your thoughts are on an erotic, transformational relationship (sex of this sort!) intimacy, shared intensity, etc. Not light weight. You may also be thinking, at the time of the query, about joint finances, the end of a previous marriage, taking risks, debts etc...anything 8th house.

His thoughts are shown by Mercury in HIS second. He's thinking (at the time of the question) about his resources, what he values and what might bring him happiness...he may be thinking about developing his talents and improving himself.

This will be a good one to watch for the timing of events...right about now, and mid-to-end of Sept being KEY.

Fascinating!

Kim