Is this the end now?

[jk]

Now i must admit that i feel a little foolish constantly coming back here for some "sign" of some sort of "hope", but here goes....

We are meeting tonight, It looks like it's over but there is still a lot of uncertainty in the air. I guess that i'm just wanting to see what insights the hororary has to offer. Given that many of you are on the other side if the pond then you may not read this till later any way. But i would still be grateful for any insights in to the reading.

Many thanks JK

I have drawn up the chart from the time that i formed this question. I don't know what planets would be rulers of whom. But that rising sign at the last degrees of Virgo probably says it all

[primamateria]

just quickly, jk... you are the asc - so Mercury and the 'other' is the dsc, Jupiter.... they are not making any applying aspects, but your co-ruler, Moon, is very soon conjunct the 'other's' ruler Jupiter... so this gives an answer in the affirmative... yes, this is the end. also, the south node rising, square pluto, tells you that this is also the end of some patterns.
hope this is the answer you were hoping for!
blessings, and strength,
pm

[jk]

primamateria said:

hope this is the answer you were hoping for!
pm

Ha Ha! Well, no, not quite!

I was wondering if it was the end of the relationship.

But at least after we talk i'll get some conclusion or be able to reconcile myself to it. The last few days have been hell giving him all the space he has asked for and not knowing one way or the what the outcome would be.


Thank you Primamateria, for your help.

[Juliet]

Dear JK,
This is a matter I'd always wondered about and read the answer to sometime in the few last weeks: and thus I believe the relationship is NOT over. Remember an horary is a very graphic description of the situation.

In an ending relationship, you would get a square or an opposition of the rulers, or no aspect at all. Moon is applying to a conjunction with Jupiter before Jupiter will move direct again, after a long retro period.
Neptune is the modern ruler of Pisces. What do you feel representing your bf best: Jupiter or Neptune? Neptune is received by Mercury(affection from you), and Jup is not. Since Uranus and Neptune are inmutual reception, we could swap them, and one of the last aspects Moon will make is a trine to Neptune. Another sign the relationship is not over.

None of the rulers is strong now. Moon is in the Via Combusta, Mercury is retrograde and changing signs soon, and Jupiter and Nep are in retrograde motion too.
Mercury's state might very well reflect your doubts as to your bf's commitment. Merc is also in Saturn's term and face, a not so nice place to be in horary.
When looking at first bf ruler Jupiter: it is actually stronger then Mercury and Moon here, because it has some essential dignity, it at least is in its own term. Swapped Neptune is very strong, because it is its own sign, although in 6. Is your bf very involved with his daily work, or ill in some way?

Your co-ruler and what-will-happen Moon is in the 'grip' of Mars, sign, triplicity, term, and face, and in the sign of its fall. Do you two fight a lot now?
When Mercury changes signs to Cancer, you will be in the sign of Jupiters exaltation, which basically means he at least has some very warm feelings for you. You also move out of the house of friendship and hope to the tenth, which I find hard to interprete in a relationship chart. Motherhood? Your public face?
Mars might be important here: it is in that same 11th, and in Jupiters term and face. It is ruler of 3 and 8 here.
Communication could be key, or sex and transformation. Mars stands for conflicts too, of course.
I understand you and your bf are in the 'next' stage of your relationship, where things move out of infatuation to a stage beyond, or not.
Okay, what does Moon do? The last aspect it will make is to the NN in 7. The NN was considered as a bad influence in traditional horary, but it is seen as having Aries connotations now, or so did Kim explain once.

The relationship will not end now, but notice there is not much mutual reception, which would aid enormously. That last aspect feels promising to me though, even more since it is in Jupiters sign and Venuses exaltation. Mind you, to be honest, it could also mean you find 'marital' bliss anyhow, be it with or without him.
This chart is rather complicated. I'm sorry if I can be not that clear.
I wish you all the best, JK! Try to stay grounded and close to yourself, that is always the most important.
Juliet

[jk]

Juliet,

Thank you for your reply and for the time you have put into looking at the chart.

Firstly, well the complicated man is probably more Neptunian right now - it's been on his Mars/NN for a while (though as a rule he’s very Uranian). He is struggling with the desire to be as free and spontaneous as he wants to be and, on the other hand, meeting his responsibilities, work and money and me and my son etc.

His love of football and going out with his mates to watch it and drink beer has multiplied dramatically during the world cup and this also involves not being able to see me even when he says (and knows) he wants to. He's has let me down a few times recently (even though i insist he goes and watches it and he says no i'll come and see you- he still manages to not turn up). But worst of all is that it lets down my son too, who has grown very fond of him, so you are right his has led to more arguments. (well, 2, in fact)

The upshot of our meeting yesterday was that he has decided that it's over. Although he still loves me he has decided that he can't cope with the responsibility of a relationship. He can't bring himself to change and doesn't want to keep on letting me down all the time and he knows he will, so it's better that it ends.

Funny thing is that i never asked him to change, i thought we could work around it simply by not arranging to meet when the football is on. I actually like his urge for freedom and spontaneity, but maybe I am naïve to think that it can be catered for with just a touch of consideration and thought thrown in. That links to what PM said too. What i asked for was a change in patterns, a change in how we dealt with both our wants not a change in ourselves per se.

But then it's not as simple as being about football. He is hitting himself over the head about his whole life and just not finding himself capable of moving away from being an adolescent. He also, quite obviously, prefers the life of a single man to having to fit in around another’s wants or need. He rarely makes it past this point in any relationship he has had. As you point out, the bit where you need to decide to move on from the initial phase into (dare I say the word) something akin to commitment.

Weird thing is we got on so well when we were chatting, even though we were separating. We both love each other still. As we were walking from his place to mine (he had some stuff to collect) and we were laughing about something or another he said – You know, there is still hope. I told him that was unfair and that it was wrong of him to say that. I really don’t need to sit around hoping that he may change his mind, we both know it’s not going to happen.

But you are right about the relationship not being over either. Given that we still love each other (and he was pretty gutted himself about ending it) we have decided to stay in touch (having said that it certainly isn’t rare for one to say to the other “I’ll ring you” at the end of a relationship).

We will still see each other, I for one, need weening off of relationships plus we live in same area and go to same places. He said he’d ring me, maybe Saturday, if that wasn’t too soon. I said it was up to him but lets not forget there’s the third place play off for the world cup that day. I’ll probably be going to a mates to watch it anyway.

I think he made the right choice, in the circumstances. Pretty darn heartbreaking, all the same.

And strangely, i do feel pretty grounded about the whole thing. Been here before, i know the drill!


Many thanks, again, Juliet,

Jo

[Juliet]

Hi Jo, I'm sorry to hear about his decision, I really feel for you!

Love, Juliet