RebuildChoralProgram?

[Amoroso]

Dear All,

I would like to respond to so many threads right now, but need to ask another horary. The question is

"Should I take on rebuilding the choral program?"

As the last horary showed, I am to just expand what I am doing right now in order to a) better use my talents and energies now that I am well and b) enable my husband and I to turn the Titantic around and make some big changes.

The music school where I teach used to have a fabulous choral program which is now non-existent. I have been invited to rebuild it, but before I agree, I need to outline my expectations for support from the institution. My years founding music education groups has taught me what to have in place right from the very beginning.

i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/RealAmoroso/RebuildChoralProgram.gif

For starters, I don't know what would signify the job. 10th house, 5th, or what. I noticed the Moon is in the 6th--an apt place, because even though I am focused on work issues right now, I am conflicted about the offer because nothing is in place.

A few horaries ago I asked a similar question about a wonderful job, but I turned it down because their funding wasn't in place. (I have often been on the other side, scrambling for funding, so I am sympathetic...) Funding is not the issue here, but rather more of a general philosophy of administrative support.

Thanks much!
Blessings,
Amoroso

[Amoroso]

PS I am reminded of something Kim said to me the first time she looked at my chart and found the Leo stellum in the 10th house. She said, "can you find a small country to rule?"

Perhaps now I have learned a bit about my Pluto/Jupiter conjunction there in relation to personal planets? I certainly hope so.

Amoroso

[Juliet]

Hi Amoroso!
I would choose the 10th, since this is about vocation. And, as Jamma said, Neptune on the MC. Saturn is ruler of 10th, and retro, appropriate too, since it's about rebuilding.
No applying aspects though between significators, and Moon is VOC again, as in your last work-question. 'No major changes' as Kim put it. It will sextile Chiron though, healing.
Pluto/Venus/Mercury (you) conjunction in 7 makes me think of turning the Titanic of your marriage, a brave and intimate undertaking.
Jupiter in 5 forbodes wel for creativity, and is ruler of both 11 of hopes, dreams and wishes and of the DC, where Mars (your husband) is again.
Uranus tells of unexpected events in your career.
This is what I see now. The chart does not scream a Yes or No to me, seems to describe your current situation though.
You are about to conjunct Venus in 7. Or 8. Where is it when you use Regiomontanus houses?
Merc and Venus are both in Marses term, but you are in detriment in Sag. Can you imagine what that means??
Will come back later!
Juliet

[samina]

I am reminded of something Kim said to me the first time she looked at my chart and found the Leo stellum in the 10th house. She said, "can you find a small country to rule?"

Very funny!

I would tend to see the 10th/6th as the job -- the Uranus square Mars opposition ASC seems to me to describe the gateway for all that energy to come through for work.

The Mars conj the DSC in Sadge conveys to me some obstacles or conflict impeding your plans, but I agree with previous comments that Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, and the NN all seem nicely placed. And Uranus at the top of the chart in Pisces clearly denotes music in a community/education environment!

I'm not getting a strong yes or no, either, tho, although it does seem to describe your situation very well!

samina

[Amoroso]

Dear Jade, Juliet and Samina,

Thanks for your thoughts on this. That Moon in Via Combusta had me up most of the night pondering the ins and outs of this situation.

(By the way, hope Kris and Kim are both feeling better!)

Jade, the Sabian symbols seem quite appropriate--both the positive and negative manifestations are right on. Actually, they are clearer to me than the other times I have tried to meditate on the symbols.

Juliet, What are the Regioma-whatever houses? I think the Saturn inconjunct Mercury (describing a past aspect) and Mercury in its detriment perhaps describe an inability to articulate my feelings and needs in this situation. I think that's why I was up all night. It seems to reflect the Saturn-Mercury opposition in my natal. At times this gives me great strength and discipline in the ways I communicate, and at times it just shuts off the communication entirely.

(Just an interesting aside here. Kim recently noted that Mars rules muscles. That Saturn-Mercury Opposition is part of a grand cross with a Pluto-Mars opposition, which puts Mercury, Mars, Saturn and Pluto in a grand square. For many years the cartilage under my tongue, the frenium, was so tight that I was slightly tongue-tied, and that had to be surgically cut to give my tongue the freedom to speak and sing.)

Anyway, part of the stress in this chart reflects how hard it is for me to formulate a plan that meets the school's needs and articulate it well, taking into consideration my own needs and feelings. It would be so easy to just railroad all my needs and take on another Herculean project designed to move mountains with very little pay. My situation is the reverse of what has been expressed here on the forum lately. I have never been in the corporate rat race, but have mucked through the artistic rat race my whole life, and right now I am most interested in getting what the local market will bare for my skills and experience as a musician and teacher. It is interesting to note in this chart that the Moon also rules my second house, and Taurus is in the 12th house!!!

In sorting out what I need to say to the Dean of the school, I believe that applying Chiron-Mercury will be lived out. There are many other communication concerns, too, which probably is why Mercury is in the 7th.

I think Uranus in the 10th is more descriptive of the group work than a huge disruption of some kind.

And last, but not least, I was pondering that Neptune at the MC, and the traditional Horary view that Neptune represents illusion, confusion, etc. It is also interesting that it is in Aquarius--with the rulers of Saturn (building) and Uranus (groups, vision, revolution.) I will have to "break through" some long cherished notions about education and my part in it to create a plan that the school wants and needs. It is sort of like when Neptune appeared in transit on my natal Chiron/Eros, (in the form of C) and my long-cherished notions of marriage slowly began to crack.

Thanks again!
Amoroso

[Kim Falconer]

Well. maybe it's all the ginger and lemon and mint and honey I'm drinking but I get a huge, in your face, YES!

Look at this chart!

The ruler of the 1st is the ruler of the 5th (you and teaching, creative arts, children!) Jupiter is in the 5th...the moon is PAST the square to Saturn, and the ruler of the 10th (your career) is trine Venus (music, money, love)...AND, Mercury (you & the Choral) are in mutual application to Venus, ruler of the day to day work 6th. And, the sun and Saturn are in mutual reception.

I don't know what the problems were in this project or why it died out but this is a bright GREEN light if I ever saw one.

I wonder if there is a 'partner' involved in this rebuilding--you will have help of an 'equal nature'...from someone who will work very closely with you.

I think Mercury in detriment is reflecting all your hesitations because of past experiences, past expectations ...if you approach this afresh--without assumptions or expectations--the kingdom is yours!!

Am I dreaming?

Kim

[Juliet]

Hey dear Amoroso!

Juliet, What are the Regioma-whatever houses? I think the Saturn inconjunct Mercury (describing a past aspect) and Mercury in its detriment perhaps describe an inability to articulate my feelings and needs in this situation. I think that's why I was up all night. It seems to reflect the Saturn-Mercury opposition in my natal. At times this gives me great strength and discipline in the ways I communicate, and at times it just shuts off the communication entirely.

And what happens after the communication shuts off completely?? Isn't that tongue tied feeling a first step to something else altogether or does it usually stay?
That surgery you had on your tongue seems so symbolic and dramatic!

Are you aware of your needs and feelings in this situation?

Regiomontanus is the house-system traditionally used in horary. (I always write Hooray)
Love, J

[jamma]

Dear Amoroso,
My intuitive two cents:
The horary said a big YES to me as well ...
But when you spoke of your reservations, I immediately thought, "she needs a partner this time who will help carry out the herculean task" ... and, then I read Kim's post about a partner being involved!

Regarding the Saturn/Merc Pluto/Mars grand cross:
So interesting you brought up the muscular problem which caused you to be "tongue tied" ...
My sense here is that it's Pluto as much as Mars -- deeply buried Plutonian passion trying to express itelf, then getting censored at the last minute by Saturn ...
This makes me think of your past stomach troubles -- all that roiling energy trapped inside, dying to get out ...
I wonder if this could be part of your hesitation, that if you take on this huge project and aren't able to articulate your needs (and get them met!), you will suffer internally (psychically, emotionally AND physically) ...
... pause ...
All this had me pondering how you can create an open pathway for expressing your needs (and desires -- don't hold back, ask for it all ... after all, you are a queen!) ...
My first thought was to do an end-run around the vocal by presenting everything in writing, neat and logical ...
But it seemed like this wouldn't be enough ...
So I pictured your singing for them (really for yourself) first -- opening the channel so that as you speak your needs the passion will already be right there, propelling your words ...
May your dreams be fulfilled,
J

[Kris]

Dear Amoroso,

I am stunned finding Mars in SAG.
The date of the chart is 6th Jan 2005.
Is it 2005 or 2006 ?

If you thought of 2006 but put 2005 by mistake, forget that project. Everything there is out of place. Just unmanageable.

Kris

PS: I am feeling lot better concentrating on my domestic and official responsibilities. I feel deviation from 'serious' practice of astrology is helping a lot.

[Amoroso]

Oh my gosh, Kris, you are right! That's a BIG difference.

This chart is not right! I will post a chart with the right year.

I am glad you are feeling better.

Amoroso

[Amoroso]

Here is the correct chart:

i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/RealAmoroso/2006RebuildChoralProgram.gif

It is quite different!

First of all, let me say thanks to all the posts. I believe things happen for a reason, and all your ideas actually helped me a great deal.

Perhaps the wrong date helped to bring up some underlying issues that I had to think about before the question could be answered.

Here's what I notice, but I am not sure how it is answering the question:

I take Saturn, ruler of the 10th, as the significator for the question, because it is a job with a current employer. Saturn is in the third house (early learning--for young women ages 11-17) and in Leo (creativity, children.) The square to Mars reminds me of that tongue-tied thing. It is trine the NN in the 11th (Hopes and dreams, like-minded groups.) But it is in opposition to the MC and Quincunx my significator. Perhaps this is where the "third party" support as well as an odd turn comes in. I am having to spend a huge amount of time laying down the conditions to be met before I take on even a small portion of the job.

Pluto in the 7th may signify the huge transformation of my marriage.

Jamma and Jade, you are so right in your observations. I don't want to repeat my pattern of unexpressed whatever and blow up!!!

The problem with being in the arts is like any other job. To make a living, one's own creativity suffers if you aren't mindful of how you're living.

Thanks, everyone!
Amoroso

[sopranokris]

Hi Amoroso,

Not much I can add on horary as I am still very new to it and still learning. Just wanted to say that I think it's wonderful that you are considering rebuilding a choral program. I am avid musician outside of work, mostly choral and oratorio work I've seen so many school music programs fade away over the years so it's refreshing to see one having the potential to make a come back. I've directed a choir before so I completely understand how hectic & stressful it is to take on the challenge. Best of luck to you if you do decide to take the job!

[Kris]

Perhaps the wrong date helped to bring up some underlying issues that I had to think about before the question could be answered.
YES Amoroso,

That's it. The underlying issues of this project are reflected by the chosen wrong date. I take the clue from Hindu system of horary. It says that if a basic point adapting horary go wrong everything concerning the issue go wrong. It's a irrevocable situation. All posts including your thought reflected the situation well. This project continue to burn over the past issues however hard you may try to restore order.

Kris

PS: Thanks for your concern about me. I hope you bounce back quickly.

[Amoroso]

THANK YOU EVERYONE!

I have turned down this project after (obviously) pouring alot of thought into it. I am FINALLY learning to listen to instinct.

I have always had such a difficult time distinguishing between INSTINCT and WISHES.

My experience with Horary so far has shown me that the traditional view of the opposition in horary is valid, no matter how you sugar coat it. In this case, Saturn opposition MC and Neptune was a pretty strong statement that taking on this project was not a good move right now.

We have to remember that, unless Saturn is a significator--and even then--Saturn in Horary means slow down! Caution! Restriction! Limits! That is not necessarily a bad thing.

I think astrologers are still trying to work in the modern rulers. Neptune, in horary, really does seem to mean that there is confusion or illusion around an issue. If I had interpreted that Neptune-Saturn Opposition as "there's energy to GROUND this DREAM into REALITY) it would have put me in a position that I do not want to be in again right now.

Well, isn't this typical of a natal Mars in Pisces? I had to swim around for awhile before I could make a decision!!

Thanks again,
Amoroso