Is this relationship over?

[sopranokris]

I just cast a horary asking the question: "Is this relationship over?" I'm concerned about Saturn being in the 7th house and the Asc at only 3 degrees. Is this horary unfit to read?

[Kim Falconer]

There are more than 3 degrees on the Ascendant--3 Aqu 21'--and Saturn in the 7th is readable, especially in a relationship question. Some astrologers won't read charts with Saturn there if they are doing the chart for a client (because the 7th is the Astrologer in that case). You are doing it for you which means you are the 1st, not the 7th.

In any instance with Saturn in the 7th you need to be guided by the more cautionary aspects--the glass just becomes 1/2 empty, not 1/2 full so to speak. There will probably be something to correct or reconsider.

With Mercury Rx, there is something to reconsider--a change of mind in some important matter.

Everyone, when you do these charts for horary, please leave out the asteroids, at least for the first reading. We are working with an ancient and traditional art. Fixed stars, YES, Asteroids--no, not at first. We can consider them 'after the fact' but keep it basic to begin with--These 13 extra bodies cause the horary pattern to diffuse and you need that initial IMPACT for the 'hit'. thanks.

Would anyone like to comment on the question?

I think the moon's final aspect to the Rx Mercury is indicative--there is more to hash out!

Kim

[Juliet]

Seventh house ruler Sun will apply to a straightforward trine from an angular house with Saturn soon, so that means a 'yes'. Saturn in 7 seems to present no problem at all, since it represents you.
But, I always wonder, does this yes mean:
Yes, it's over? Or will you start seeing each other again?
Kim, did you take 5th as ruler of other??

[sopranokris]

I ask this question because I truly feel that the relationship is over. We live over 1700 miles apart. I'm not willing to leave my child and move to another state and he's not willing to leave his children and move out here. So, basically, we both love each other deeply & dearly, but we will never be able to be together unless one of us makes a HUGE sacrifice and leaves their child (or in his case, children) behind. We both just ended long marriages but our respective spouses are fiercely opposed to either of us moving out of state with our children. So, we're stuck!!!

It's like fate is playing the cruelest joke in the world on us. Here's the man of your dreams but if you want him, you have to give up the one thing in the world that means the most to you. I can't leave my son, I just can't do it! So, I feel what's the point of continuing the relationship. We're never going to be able to live together. I don't think I can be content to limit our relationship to e-mails, text messages, phone calls and a face-to-face visit once a month. His opinion is "what's wrong with the way things are now?" I guess it's that Juno/Eros conflict we have (me being the Juno person, him being the Eros person). It's so frustrating!!!!!!

I think it's over, he says it's not. So, that's why I posed the question. I'm ruled by Saturn in the chart. Do the grand squares & grand crosses mean anything (I only did aspects to major planets, no asteroids) ? I get the feeling from looking at the chart that yes, the relationship is over.

[Kris]

Hi Spronokris,

This chart clearly indicates your concern in more than one way.

Moon conjunct Jupiter was the last major aspect. You were restless (sco) over the matters of Jupiter lord of 2nd house (family and finances) and 11th house (friendship and his children). Mercury on 10th cusp is very strong and it's exact opposition to 4th cusp portray strongl conflict concerning home with reference to your son - retrograde mercury being lord of 5th house.

The focus point of the chart is the connectivity between AC lord uranus (you) and 7th lord sun (your husband) through venus in 12th who makes a semi-square to both of them. Your frustration is magnified by failing ambition of erotic love (Venus conjunct eros in cap) and the impact is subconcious (venus in 12th). It is pertinent to talk of asteroid eros here. Right.. Kim ? Your hubby is very cold with retrograde Sat in 7th. And it's opposition to Neptune in 1 is even more problematic.

The dynamics are so strong that the issue in hand - the relationship - is at question. I feel the conclusive semi-square made by venus is the key alongwith AC lord's conjuction to the fateful point anti-vertex. Your vertex in 7th indicate fateful encounters with the people and anti-vertex in 1st means the separation would be initiated by you. Both AC and DC lord in dual sign also indicate change of status quo in the relation.

Does it make sense pals ?

Kris

[Kim Falconer]

All good points, everyone. Yes, Kris, I would count the Eros conjunction to Venus. You delineation was strong and clear. Thank you.

Juliet, I'm not sure where to put this relationship--because there was a recent divorce, we might give the 7th to the ex and the 5th to the new lover. In that case, the last aspect of the Moon is the conjunction to his ruler (co-rulers unite).

Saturn in the 7th certainly speaks of troublesome relationships, all round!

Sopranokris, I get the feeling the continuation or withdraw from this relationship is up to you.

Sometimes we get locked into thinking that a relationship MUST live together or 'be with' each other all the time. We can get fixed on traditional views.

It is possible that this new relationship is created just perfectly for what you need right now. Ending a marriage is hard going, hard emotional work and often the LAST thing we really want is to walk straight back into a binding, contractual agreement (marriage--7th house commitment). It is possible that you need the love and joy and creative excitement and uncertainty of a romantic love affair (with the man of your dreams!) at this arduous time. It is part of the healing.

I don't think it is over unless you want it to be.

I don't think the relationship is 'impossible' if you both want it to happen. (some of us would kill for those emails, txt messages and a monthly face to face, believe me!!! Am I right, girlfriends???)

Situations change. Agreements change. Your son will not always be living with you. He will grow up and start a life on his own. You man need to move because he requires a different school. (you may need to move, at some point, for your work) Your ex-husband may see the situation differently in time… everything is still quite raw and hurtful now.

End the relationship if you want to, but not because it's impossible.

Nothing is impossible, I promise!

Warmly,
Kim

[sopranokris]

It's so interesting how the strong Eros in this relationship has really changed me. It has definitely been a powerful contact and it seems like every time our relationship starts becoming routine, something happens to shake it up! I guess the "shake ups" are what scare me the most.

Kim, you're right. I *do* need the love, joy & excitement of a romantic love affair right now. I think he & I both need it because we're going through the same thing. Again you're right, I'm so fixed on traditional views that I'm not looking at what we have between us and just let it be what it is. He said if we want to talk commitment, he'll do it. I stopped him right there. I don't want to jump into a commitment after just ending a 13 year marriage (his was 7 1/2 years). I'll just let it be what it is. I've been feeling like it's over lately because I was getting so focused on the future instead of just going with the flow and let things happen naturally. I'm not going to end the relationship at this point although I still feel like things have dramatically changed between us. I think we're both afraid of the power of this connection. It's so hard to describe in written word. It's just so intense & powerful that I don't think we could end it even if we wanted to. Does that make any sense?

Kris, you are *so* right about there being a conflict involving my son. My ex & I have been arguing over who gets custody (he's almost 7 years old). I've always been the responsible one in the marriage. I work downtown which means I leave before 7 AM and don't get home until after 6 PM during the week. My ex (who FINALLY got a job after 7 years of loafing around the house) works at the same school where my son attends. They're on the same schedule, same holidays, etc. I have to give up full time custody of my son and it's KILLING me!!!!!!! I feel like I'm in the middle of a battlefield getting hit from all sides right now...LOL!

Thank you all for your most insightful thoughts & all the wonderful advice and support!!!!! I'll keep you posted on what happens

--Kristin

[Kim Falconer]

This is a difficult time of transformation for you, Sopranokris, and I get the feeling you are handling it very well.

It is often quite a revelation to see that what we have attracted is actually what we need at the time! (even when it seems so difficult or disruptive).

I'm glad you can appreciate the value of your relationship in all its unconventional wrappings!

Kim

[sopranokris]

Kim, difficult transformation is the understatement of the year!!!

Thanks for the encouragement, I do appreciate it. With Uranus transiting the 4th house and Pluto working it's power in my 2nd house, plus Saturn squaring my natal Saturn, it's been a rough ride indeed.

Yes, I certainly did need C to come into my life and he is everything I need (except close in proximity). He has told me before that when he met me, it was like he got his wish of what he exactly wanted. Strange how things happen like that, isn't it?

Yes, it most definitely *is* an unconventional relationship. However, it's been very healing in a way for both of us. I guess because it's still so new, I'm not used to the unique nature of it. Nothing has stayed the same and the transformation of Eros is certainly at work here. Even if it doesn't last, I am already a changed person because of it.

Take care,
--Kristin

[Kris]

sopranokris said:

It's so hard to describe in written word. It's just so intense & powerful that I don't think we could end it even if we wanted to. Does that make any sense?
--Kristin

I am glad to note, deep thought had gone into the relation. It is not easy to end 13 year old marriage that may leave a big void in life. There is a strong underlaying theme that keep you both stay apart. Try to identify, be patient and give somemore time to 4th Uranus to settle the issues. I say this from own experience of keeping my family away for nearly 4 years for want of children's carrer. I faced numerous problems, omni present pressure and no respite which were not even imagined at the time of planned separation. Everything was in doldrums. I reasoned out the effect due to transit Uranus in 4th from natal Sun and transit Saturn in 1st making numerous aspects to my natal personal planets. I did not call back my wife as things were shaping nicely with children though not with me and my wife was wrongly implicated by my own people. I just patted and f\pacified her time and again but did not call her back as it would disrupt the whole plan revolved around chilren. I kept my cool and patience and it paid me rich rewards at the end.

Your mails underline the strong feel for your hubby. "Feel for each other" is what all matters in a relation rather than the chemistry between physical bodies. I understand 13 year long union is outstanding for non-Asian couples. I advise to make suitable amendments to ease out the pressure and dissolve the idea of breaking the marriage.

Wish all the best
Kris