|
Post by svenskasfinx on Jul 29, 2005 1:04:05 GMT
Hello all I know it seems to be an odd question to ask, but when Saturn is the ruler of the chart, IS it still fit to read? What if it is the ruler of the 7th house? Was there a problem with traditional horary with the DSC or was that the ASC..? Also Mercury is RETROGRADE. (this is the 5th house ruler of the chart but the question is about meeting a famous person perhaps via a mutual friend) I understand that it's a problem with the degree, too soon or too early (not with this chart) but are there any other factors in reading these and finally Time considerations.. when it will come to pass as read on the other threads, what exactly determines that? Which house for example. The question: Will I meet Howard? (Howard Devoto at the Urbis show?) (I make a note here, I have to communicate to him via other people and mutual friends but have never had a direct communication or meeting) I make a note, 11 degrees Cancer the ASC of the chart in question is the exact midpoint between my Venus and Sun. (they are in conjuction anyway) Does this make the chart any more fit to read, and if so, how does one determine this answer about the meeting. (Howard's own Natal Uranus is about that degree as well at 9 degrees 59 minutes Cancer and he is a Pisces time unknown but guessed as a Taraus ASC.) (his natal Mars conjuncts my natal vertex) The vertex of this chart is nearly but not quite conjunct mine by a little more than one degree. I think if it has to do with meeting a strange public figure, Uranus the ruler of the 10th does seem to indicate something.. especialy with its relationship to the ASC (DSC) of the chart and the 11th house ruler is exactly Sextile to the ASC ruler in the 11th house. I just see alot of 9th to 11th house aspected.. and my friend in a foreign land...(UK) to possibly help me to meet up with him... maybe not.. Any ideas? Thanks ahead of time, svenskasfinx
|
|
|
Post by Juliet on Jul 29, 2005 14:30:20 GMT
Hi Svenska! Could you please post the chart again, without the asteroids?? That would make it more easy to read. Thanks! Juliet
|
|
|
Post by svenskasfinx on Jul 29, 2005 17:38:00 GMT
Hi Svenska! Could you please post the chart again, without the asteroids?? That would make it more easy to read. Thanks! Juliet Here, um sorry about the confusion! Mercury retrograde you know! I also note that Neptune and Moon are not Sextile but in fact SQUARED.. Horary doesn't traditionally like that; I know this aspect will make everything associated with this awfully confusing! Thanks for having a look.. svenskasfinx P.S. I notice that the fixed star Sirius is just rising.. (that is conjunct my Venus.. but maybe out of orb for this chart to have it conjunct the ASC. either way, I don't know!
|
|
|
Post by Kim Falconer on Jul 30, 2005 0:46:51 GMT
Hi Svenskasfinx, First up. The chart is radical and fit to read. Saturn in the 7th house in a horary chart implies 'a problem with the set up of the chart or with the astrologer'. The 7th (when asked by someone else) is the house of the astrologer doing the reading and if Saturn is there, something is wrong or needs to be re-checked. I found this quite true when I used to (years ago) do chart calculations by hand. Saturn in the 7th invariably meant I'd made a mistake that had to be corrected before the reading continued. Any planet retrograde suggests a 'reticent' or even illness in the person that planet rules--they do not reveal their true nature. (in horary--not other charts!) To answer your question, we have to work out what house (sign and planet) rules Howard. You have the Moon, so she can not co-rule him. If he is designated 'the other' then we give him Saturn. As there is no approaching aspect between him and the you (your rulers) the meeting will not take place at this upcoming event. If we take the 10th (public figure), then Uranus and Saturn co-rule him. Again, no approaching aspect so no meeting at this time. (the Urbis show) There is no translation of the lights either, so no third party can help, for now. A spiritual leader or new age thinker would be ruled by the 9th. A surgeon or occult practitioner, the 8th. A partner or "the other" by the 7th. An employer, dentist, vet or personal trainer by the 6th. A child, lover, art teacher by the 5th. A parent, father, farmer or real-estate agent by the 4th. A neighbour, teacher, sibling, or postman by the 3rd. A banker, financial advisor belongs to the 2nd. The first is you. A widow, recluse, clandestine associate, secrete enemy belongs to the 12th. A friend, association member, like minded others belongs to the 11th. A parent, mother, president, political figure, professional, judge belongs to the 10th. The derivative houses come into play here to (and aunt is the 3rd (sibling) from the 4th or 10th (parent). When we identify which house Howard falls into, we can read the chart. Kim
|
|
|
Post by svenskasfinx on Jul 30, 2005 7:36:35 GMT
........."To answer your question, we have to work out what house (sign and planet) rules Howard. You have the Moon, so she can not co-rule him. If he is designated 'the other' then we give him Saturn. As there is no approaching aspect between him and the you (your rulers) the meeting will not take place at this upcoming event. If we take the 10th (public figure), then Uranus and Saturn co-rule him. Again, no approaching aspect so no meeting at this time. (the Urbis show) There is no translation of the lights either, so no third party can help, for now. A spiritual leader or new age thinker would be ruled by the 9th. A surgeon or occult practitioner, the 8th. A partner or "the other" by the 7th. An employer, dentist, vet or personal trainer by the 6th. A child, lover, art teacher by the 5th. A parent, father, farmer or real-estate agent by the 4th. A neighbour, teacher, sibling, or postman by the 3rd. A banker, financial advisor belongs to the 2nd. The first is you. A widow, recluse, clandestine associate, secrete enemy belongs to the 12th. A friend, association member, like minded others belongs to the 11th. A parent, mother, president, political figure, professional, judge belongs to the 10th. The derivative houses come into play here to (and aunt is the 3rd (sibling) from the 4th or 10th (parent). When we identify which house Howard falls into, we can read the chart..." Dear Kim, Thanks for that! Howard Devoto is hard to classify, he is what I'd like to call "the reluctant celiberty".. He is considered "reclusive" and yet an inovative influence, perhaps the 12th and the 9th are not a far step from how we could classify him. If we use derived houses, then he is the 9th due to the fact he is the friend of a friend, but not directly associated to me. (11th of the 11th right?) (I don't just choose the 9th because its making the only solid aspect to the Moon ) Do you think this fits? Thank you for getting me thinking about this, and yes, the whole Mercury retrograde is concerning in the Horary as well. the 5th house would be the partner of my friend...(virgo on the cusp of the 5th house) Thank you for your help, I think I've just learned a few things just now and I rather enjoyed that! Even if disappointed, its still interesting. best wishes, svenskasfinx P.S. I have been motivated to try Name Asteroids as well, and Peter (1716) shows up the ASC of this chart by the 12th house at 10 degrees 6 minutes. (asteroid Howard (12561) at 21 degrees 13 minutes Gemini in the 12th) I found it odd.
|
|
|
Post by Kim Falconer on Jul 31, 2005 7:48:57 GMT
I've been staring at this chart realizing finally that I am way too tired after a very long day of work to "get" anything! I am thinking that he may be the friend of a friend and inspirational teacher which is the 11th from the 11th or 9th. If you look at you and the friend, well your moon and he's Neptune so there is a very strong alignment with that person! Because you are connected to the friend, he may 'intermediate' and be the link (he is, yes?) Saturn/Uranus rules the 9th (unless I've gone blind) so there is no direct contact at this time BUT you are in the house of your friend (you have gone to him) and he is in the 9th (he's gone to Howard) and there may be a potent link there. See what happens, report back and then we'll all know more about what this chart is saying! Kim
|
|
|
Post by svenskasfinx on Jul 31, 2005 9:03:45 GMT
Kim! I think you're correct; that 11th house ruler in the 9th must be IT. Moon in the 11th house.. ect. Its all too appropriate that the ruler of the 10th is also the ruler of the 9th. (friend of a friend) But Neptune, ruler of the 11th house.. in the 9th, that sounds correct.. Moon in the 11th making a strong square.. but its also making an opposition to Mercury. (actually both are influenced by an opposition to Mercury so it will certainly be an odd moment digging up things which don't come up very often if I have my Mercury retrogrades correct...) My final question about the chart is, what about the 18 degrees Vertex in the 5th house in Scorpio coming into opposition (conjuncting the antivertex) from the Moon in less than 2 degrees? Does that have any meaning on the timing or of the state of Moon? It just seems curious, and then there is the 16 degree NN in semi sextile to the Moon and sextile to Neptune.. (It too is in the 11th house.) and yes this says something but I feel inadaquate to read somethings that are said. take care and thanks, If anyone else sees anything, its ok.. I'd like to look at this from all the angles I can.. its not only a learning experience but rather exciting subject matter for me best wishes and thanks! svenskasfinx
|
|
|
Post by Kim Falconer on Aug 1, 2005 0:57:40 GMT
My final question about the chart is, what about the 18 degrees Vertex in the 5th house in Scorpio coming into opposition (conjuncting the antivertex) from the Moon in less than 2 degrees? Does that have any meaning on the timing or of the state of Moon?
Hi Svenskasfinx,
I agree we need to give him the 9th house.
Everything the Moon touches by application (applying aspect) is significant. I suspect that Moon conjunct the Anti-vertex says something about the significance of this event as a turning point in your life. You may "grock" something that means you can no longer life your life the way you have thus far. My experience with these kinds of epiphanies is that they are amazing blessing at the same time as being a bit of a curse. It's like the trip to the underworld. You can never go back--meaning you can never go back to the way things were, because you hace changed.
Smile! Kim
|
|
suz
Junior Member
Posts: 42
|
Post by suz on Aug 1, 2005 1:17:02 GMT
Hi
Quick question.... Would you count the semi-square from the Moon to Saturn as an applying aspect? If yes... then there is to be contact at this meeting?
Suz
|
|
|
Post by Juliet on Aug 1, 2005 7:03:57 GMT
Hi Svenska!
The eleventh is also the house of wishes and dreams, so you there seems very appropriate. I'm not sure I understand that choice for the 9th house. I understand he is not 'just' the other in this instance. But I mean, his importance to you is not derived from his being a friend of a friend. What are your expectations of meeting Howard? Your hopes? (By the way, can't you just ask your friend to introduce you to one another?)
The last conjunction the Moon made was to Mars. Was there any conflict around you leading to this question? To me the twelfth seems a good house for a musician. They and movie actors are usually the most paradoxic public figures. They touch your soul, and through that you feel connected to them on a deep level, but they're the most (here my english gets all frumpy) unadmissable/guarded of all. And twelve, Neptune, Music, poetry, and in Howards case, being sort of a recluse. Just some thoughts. I'll think about it some more!! Great, this horary stuff.
All my best,
Juliet
|
|
|
Post by svenskasfinx on Aug 1, 2005 7:40:41 GMT
Dear Juliet, You're right to ask that question, and provoke myself to ask "Why do I want to meet him?" Well its partially because I've become such good friends with another person who happened to mention that the two of them were going to appear (once again) in a museum setting in Manchester. Now usually his friend doesn't bring up the topic of Howard. It is a hard topic, and what I have studied about Howard, his words and what he has done, it seems if he is working within music, even as a sideline now days, there feels as though there is hope for me, on many different levels. Partially due to the idea of how I am touched by his ideas (as a "fan" may be) but then on another level what I think appeals most of all is his survival as a creative person, (on many levels again) in the spotlight of the miss understanding and hype of the media. He has lessons to teach me, just as his friend has, concerning being an artist in a world that likes the idea but rarely the artist themselves. I think I empathize with the pains of being missunderstood by those closest to me, and can only imagine how it might feel if one had the media involved with outragous misconceptions and only interested in rumours..It makes me wonder how strong one must be in order to survive? Just to speak to him, would probably give me an idea.. and I'd like to hear it from his own words about how he feels, and how he created what he created without speculations on my part..(maybe he will show this during the questions and answers). Lastly, you are correct, with public figures we tend to feel an affinity which may or may not be there.. we know so much about a person, and yet, never realize we've just had that experience with knowing them publicly: its a different thing when they get to know us.. and the eyes of the one who you know so much about turns to you.. its like interaction with a record, or television.. or even a magazine.. and yet they are just as human, if not more so than everyone else.. this is part of my motive too, I want to see Howard's Humanity and not a projection by what other's have captured of him. That is all. 12th house, poet, photo archivist, historical figure become recluse, suspicious, perhaps paraniod-- Piscies; it sounds right, but friend of a friend, because he actually knows of me.. and gives me the impression he would speak to his friend and ask, "is she trustworthy?" in my mind. IN 9th house, genius who saw the future, a visionary, an explorer, a teacher of "how it's done"; a man who started a revolution by understanding when the future was about to begin... and a friend of a friend. Mars being the last contact; I was motivated by my need for freedom a little. My husband finally said he'd let me go, after my friend told me he'd put my name on the guest list if I did go, it was a case of heated emotions. My friend told me I needed that break because if I stayed at home, and missed this chance, I'd go "stir crazy". (a weird thing to say) I think I was provoked, almost to prove I was not a woman who lives in a box. thanks for your questions, best wishes, svenskasfinx
|
|
|
Post by Kim Falconer on Aug 2, 2005 1:03:52 GMT
Just a quick note--Suz, good call on the semi-square (exact in 13 minutes of degree). The problem is that the minor aspects--semi-sextiles, semi-squares sesquare etc, are usable mainly for confirmation of what is shown by the major aspects. I'm reticent to use that aspect as a timing device because it is not confirming.
Comments?
Kim
|
|
|
Post by Juliet on Aug 2, 2005 6:36:54 GMT
Svenska! I do understand the choice for the 9th a whole lot better now. Thanks. When will the event take place?
All my best, Juliet.
|
|
|
Post by svenskasfinx on Aug 2, 2005 8:00:08 GMT
Svenska! I do understand the choice for the 9th a whole lot better now. Thanks. When will the event take place? All my best, Juliet. Friday Night: August 12th 7 to 9pm, Urbis Museum, Manchester UK:....and yes, I looked up the transits for that time as well as noted that my progressions are very very active on that date. I have my Progressed Mercury conjunct my Progressed Sun exactly on that date, and it seems that Retrograde Mercury will be going over that Progression a few times also. I also have a transiting Saturn conjunct my Progressed Mars happening now (progressed first house!).. and a transiting Chiron (and Icarus) in conjunction with my Progressed Moon (changed over to Aquarius and in the progressed 7th house) Things are happening! thanks for your well wishes and understanding, as well as questions, svenskasfinx
|
|
|
Post by svenskasfinx on Aug 14, 2005 22:04:00 GMT
Ok the story I come back with was;
I did kind of meet Howard. I noticed how pained he was doing the whole signing the books and posing for photos kind of thing.. maybe I messed up by not giving him a post card directly.. due to the fact he works at a photographic agency, I just didn't want to shove things in his face when I did want to actually do more than stand and watch him and pose with him in a photo..(I notice that with other people invading his space he was polite but I could see it seemed perhaps draining to him) thinking back now.. I wonder if playing it cool and not trying to annoy him was actually a good thing..
I did however pose for a photo with him and he got really very very close to me, trying to make the compostion for the person taking the photo better, it was odd..it bother's me how with certain people I only speak when spoken to...
I think my question I asked probably did change my life, now not remembering that there were cameras on... I was so full of passion when someone mearly suggested that the personal history of what had happened with Pete and Howard and Richard was all really blown out of proportions... and was perhaps all hype rather than the obviously undermined by the media story that it really was..
It still goes on today.. Howard's responce to my question was..."I can't add anything to that... you said it all so well yourself..."
take care all,
svenskasfinx
|
|