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Post by Kim Falconer on Jul 23, 2005 20:18:24 GMT
Amoroso, I'm confused now. When did you ask the question? July or January? In horary, you can not ask the same question twice, unless the situation has drastically altered. Even then, you get a questionable result. I'm off to work now but will check back on this tomorrow. Kim
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Post by Amoroso on Jul 27, 2005 16:02:59 GMT
I'm on vacation now, but you answered the question. Talk to you all when I get back!
Love, Amoroso
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Post by Amoroso on Jul 31, 2005 19:35:27 GMT
Dear Kim et all, Some of the cobwebs have been cleared from my brain by a lovely family beach vacation. In re-reading this thread, I realized that I had not been clear about several things. First of all, this chart was cast and the question asked only several weeks ago. However, I typed in the wrong date, so it looks like I asked the question in January, 2005. I have reposted it here-- i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/RealAmoroso/Currentwhenwillweseeeachotheragain.gifWhen I realized I had typed in the wrong date, I went back and looked at it as if it had been cast and asked in January. I was surprised to see that Kim's answer did, indeed, apply to the date in question. But the original question was asked in July. Can it still be answered? Have I gone completely senile? Assuming it can be answered, I am still quite unclear about timing. Thanks, and it's nice to be back, Amoroso
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Post by svenskasfinx on Jul 31, 2005 22:11:13 GMT
Dear Kim et all, Some of the cobwebs have been cleared from my brain by a lovely family beach vacation. In re-reading this thread, I realized that I had not been clear about several things. First of all, this chart was cast and the question asked only several weeks ago. However, I typed in the wrong date, so it looks like I asked the question in January, 2005. I have reposted it here-- i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/RealAmoroso/Currentwhenwillweseeeachotheragain.gifWhen I realized I had typed in the wrong date, I went back and looked at it as if it had been cast and asked in January. I was surprised to see that Kim's answer did, indeed, apply to the date in question. But the original question was asked in July. Can it still be answered? Have I gone completely senile? Assuming it can be answered, I am still quite unclear about timing. Thanks, and it's nice to be back, Amoroso Hello and welcome back Amoroso!! Let me post this image so everyone can see it: Hope you've had a good trip, and some time to relax. take care, svenskasfinx
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Post by Kim Falconer on Aug 1, 2005 0:48:51 GMT
Amoroso,
I'm a little confused about what happened though if we look at this chart we see that his ruler (7th house) is the Sun which is void of course. Interestingly, it is within a degree of your ruler (traditional Saturn) though out of sign. It's like 'behind the veil' you are together (conjunct) but manifest here-just out of touch. Can you see how this might be?
Even if we take the Moon to co-rule you, we get no aspect to the sun because it changes signs before she can oppose it.
But if we give him the co-ruler Moon and you Uranus (modern) we get an inconjunct (the 30 degree semi-sextile) in 2 plus degrees. There could be a word (unexpected, secret and not quite satisfying) at some point--fixed and cadent moon says "no time specified".
It's certainly an unsatisfying and somewhat paradoxical answer, but the best I can see right now.
Anyone else?
Glad to hear the holiday was lovely! Kim
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Post by Amoroso on Aug 1, 2005 1:06:34 GMT
Thanks, Kim! (and thanks, Svenskasfinx, for posting it) So, here are some questions about this chart.
1. We are using the seventh house to indicate C., and that's probably correct. But I read somewhere that married querents should use the fifth house as" the other." Comments?
2. Do traditional rules of horary state that conjunct planets which are in different signs lose significance?
3. How does one tell that the Sun is "void of course" and is this as important as when the moon is void of course? (That the chart can not be read.)
Thanks so much. Blessings, Amoroso
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Post by Kim Falconer on Aug 1, 2005 1:20:00 GMT
I am not sure, but you may well be correct in assigning C the 5th house (lover, student). In that case, he is ruled by Mercury and your co-ruler moon makes an opposition (still undetermined amount of time--Moon fixed and cadent) Horary counts only approaching-in-sign contacts. No out of sign aspects allowed. Separating aspects are events from the past. The sun is void of course because it makes no approaching aspects. Any planet that has no applying aspects is 'void of course' until it changes sign (and has applying aspects). When the Moon is void of course in a horary, the chart is read by saying "nothing will happen" OR "there is nothing to worry about". The Moon--which signifies events--is not applying to anything and no events equates with "nothing" or "no worries". Does that make sense? Kim
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Post by Amoroso on Aug 3, 2005 21:02:52 GMT
Dear Kim et all,
In Horary, does that fixed Moon mean that I am in no hurry to see him? (a state of mind of the querant)?
Does the Moon/Mercury opposition mean something other than that there is separation--?
And is there a reason we don't take his fifth house ruler also, which trines the moon? (The question was “when we will see each other again,,” not “when will I see him.”) which is why I ask. It seems that the way the question is asked is very important.
I am curious--it seems horary could be bent so many ways to suit an answer someone wants.
Thanks much! Learning so much all the time, Blessings, Amoroso
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Post by Kim Falconer on Aug 4, 2005 1:14:43 GMT
Amoroso, am I looking at the correct chart? I thought the 5th was Gemini-Mercury being the ruler. Yes, you can take the 5th for him. " In that case, he is ruled by Mercury and your co-ruler moon makes an opposition (still undetermined amount of time--Moon fixed and cadent)"***
Your state of mind is shown by Mercury (for you in the 7th--your thoughts are on relationships and your marriage--for him, his 3rd-his thoughts are on communications, letters, siblings study...school, all 3rd house things).
The Moon reflects events and being fixed and cadent, nothing happens fast. From Ivy Goldstein Jacobson: "If the Moon cannot complete her final aspect because the planet changes signs before she reaches the necessary degree (as in the case with the sun at 29 Cancer 20) the person will
The sun at the 29th degree (ruler of the 7th) could say something about the state of your husband. Is he 'at the end of his rope' about some matter?
***Oh, hang on. I get it. You are saying his 5th house ruler (Pluto) trine to his mercury. Well, if he were asking the question and Gemini was rising, yes, that would count. But you are asking the question and we need to see it from your perspective first.
(Is there some way he would see you but not you him---if you were on stage, performing?)
I'll give this more thought.
The rules of Horary are strict in order to prevent the 'bending'.
More soon! Kim
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Post by Amoroso on Aug 4, 2005 17:49:08 GMT
Thanks, Kim! I see now what I was doing wrong. I wasn't turning the chart to get his fifth house ruler.
I have a major performance in November that I suppose is possible that he will attend. However, I will not be inviting him if I have not heard from him, but there will be publicity so he may find out about it.
It is intriguing about the Sun at 29 degrees. If we are referring to the situation in general, my husband does not know three-quarters of it. He was upset to find out we had been in contact up until the end of March--he thought it was weird and inappropiate. But that's all I can think of.
Ah, time will tell.
On to other charts Blessings, Amoroso
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Post by Amoroso on Aug 5, 2005 19:46:21 GMT
Kim,
You wrote: "The Moon reflects events and being fixed and cadent, nothing happens fast. From Ivy Goldstein Jacobson: "If the Moon cannot complete her final aspect because the planet changes signs before she reaches the necessary degree (as in the case with the sun at 29 Cancer 20) the person will"
but the sentence was not complete! Can you finish it for me?
Thanks, Amoroso
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Post by Amoroso on Aug 5, 2005 20:36:39 GMT
Dear Kim et all, I've left multiple messages on this thread today--sorry about that, I have felt very unorganized all week with dealing with kittie's sudden illness and my mother-in-law here at the same time. Anyway, I am curious about the way things are to be verbalized in horary. It the question "when will I hear from C?" the same as "will I hear from C?' In the first chart, which I have not posted, the time has come and gone for "when will I hear from C" and I have not heard from him. The second question was asked by me to a friend in Texas who is learning horary, and this question was asked several months ago before Kim started this thread. Here is the chart: i17.photobucket.com/albums/b61/RealAmoroso/ChrissysHorary.gif1. Does this original question void the second question? (which, Kim, is the one you answered for me privately.) 2. Is this correct-- My third house ruler is the Sun, which is found in a semi-square to Saturn, his ruler. I assume this means a delay, frustrations in communication. However, there is a trine from the Moon to Saturn. I am sorry to be so dense, but I really do not understand how to come up with an answer, Kim, if you'd rather do this one as an Astro Tutor, let me know. I believe the Moon/Mars conjunction in the 10th represents the assertiveness it took for me to send the letter, and make "public"--at least to him--where I was with our friendship. I feel like I am untangling a web of misunderstandings on my part of how horary works. Thanks much, Amoroso
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Post by Kim Falconer on Aug 5, 2005 23:16:54 GMT
Amoroso,
How weird--the sentence just stopping there. Mercury is definitely retrograde!
I meant to complete the quote: From Ivy Goldstein Jacobson: "If the Moon cannot complete her final aspect because the planet changes signs before she reaches the necessary degree (as in the case with the sun at 29 Cancer 20) the person will abandon the matter before it can be finished (or because she believes it can not be finished or accomplished).
I will answer the next post on Monday. I'll have some time then!
Warmly, Kim
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Post by Amoroso on Aug 8, 2005 17:44:30 GMT
Dear Kim et all,
Now that is interesting, what Jacobson said about the Moon--
"the person will abandon the matter before it can be finished (or because she believes it can not be finished or accomplished)."--
Because I thought that HE had abandoned the matter, not me. But I have been thinking about this a great deal, and perhaps it is true. Perhaps I do believe that it can not happen and at some level I HAVE abandoned the notion that he and I could express our connection.
I can not fathom sneaking around, keeping it a secret, figuring out how and where to meet. I don't want to play that game so I guess I, in fact, do not believe it can be accomplished. Very interesting.
The issue of how to verbalize a question (See chart from two posts ago) does seem pretty important.
Thanks much, Blessings, Amoroso
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Post by Kim Falconer on Aug 8, 2005 23:40:40 GMT
Hi Amoroso,
My heart goes out to you for your kitty---
Why haven't I seen this May 31st chart?
I think there is a difference, in this case, between 'will I see" and "When will I see." When you asked the 'When" you felt it would be 'sometime' and the "Will" question seems to be coming from a 'different' place. Does that make sense? They are very similar and since you have been asking both of these questions in your heart for a long time, it is difficult to pin down. I need to look at that original question again and see what the outcome-date wise--was. Did we take C to be the 7th or 5th?
In this "will I" chart, the 3rd house is ruled by Leo/Sun. Can you see the 1st and 2nd-7th and 8th houses are ruled by Cancer and Capricorn and that Taurus/Scorpio are intercepted in the 5th-11th?
Anyway, your ruler is the MOON. (the querent's ruler in a horary is always the ruler of the Ascendant, not the house in question. You're the Moon in 23 Pisces (last conjunction Mars--urgent for a response!)
The next step is to find what rules the 'whom' you wonder if you will ever hear from. I think we are going to go with the 5th house (student/lover) as discussed before.
In this case, the ruler is Venus (Libra on the 5th house cusp).
The Moon completes her square aspect to Venus, giving us a YES answer with qualification:
You aren't going to like the results!
The square doesn't deny success but it makes the 'cost' almost prohibitive. It usually involves many obstacles, and set backs, suspicion, anger, and pressure. Venus in the 12 suggests estrangement, secrets and perhaps a telepathic or spiritual link.
The Moon's final aspect suggests you WILL hear from him but it won't resolve any of the inherent problems--mainly, how can the expression of this relationship be accomplished?
Does this make sense?
Yes, the wording of the question is vital. And so is silence. If you ask too often of a similar thing, or in a similar way, the energy dissipates. Questions asked when they are being ‘born’ (burning, immediate, present) usually provide the clearest answers.
Let me know how this sits.
Deep breaths, Kim
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