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Post by jamma on Dec 2, 2005 21:17:53 GMT
OK, we don't have a "WEIRD STUFF" category, so I guess this might fit here under the umbrella of Synchronicity ... The other night I had a dream in which the word "Shani" appeared (I saw the spelling!) ... somehow I was "dispensing" Shani, which was like a pinpoint of energy, everywhere I went ... it was a GOOD thing ... I saw the color green ... I got up and wrote down the word, went back to bed and forgot about it until today ... I didn't know what Shani meant but suspected it had something to do with India, both because of the spelling and because of two "profound" dreams I had about 15 years ago, both of which involved Hindu deities ... In one of those dreams, I am in a temple and a dancer gives me a sacred object, telling me, "You are the keeper of Shakti." ... I don't understand what she means but sense a great joy and responsibility ... In the other, I am at a renaissance fair and encounter a young waiter ... we have never met but recognize each other from a past life ... we go into a stable-like shelter and stand, looking into each other's eyes, and "become one" ... I realize that he is an Avatar of Vishnu and I had been his consort. When the moment of "joining" is over, we return to our present-day incarnations and know we must go our separate ways, but we linger awhile, feeling a deep nostalgia for the past. (I woke from this dream still feeling the loss, because this was the most profound "union" I had ever experienced in my life.) The amazing thing about these two dreams is that 15 years ago, I knew nothing about Indian mythology (and still know very little). In fact, when I had the Shakti dream, I had never even heard the word and had to look it up in the encyclopedia at work. Today, however, with the wonderful internet at my disposal, I was able to seach for "Shani" and found that in Vedic astrology it is the name for Saturn -- the ruler of my chart! (Now that's just spooky) ... Here is a beautiful legend about Shani/Saturn and how it is wise to honor him: www.webonautics.com/mythology/shani_saturn.htmlWhile on the same mythology website, I looked up Vishnu and discovered that he is the Preserver, and his consort is Lakshmi -- goddess of wealth (wow!) ... On Lakshmi's page (link below), she is depicted with a small elephant at her side ... this COMPLETELY blew my mind, because as I was dropping off to sleep night before last, I had an image of a small elephant, trotting happily up to me like a puppy! www.webonautics.com/mythology/lakshmi.htmlI don't know exactly what all this means, but it seems like my unconscious is trying to speak to me in symbols (or maybe that I lived in India in a past life) ... I would dearly LOVE to hear any of your insights, speculations, intuitive flashes ... (and if Lakshmi is listening, I ask her to bless us all with her abundance and generosity) Jamma |
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 2, 2005 22:22:20 GMT
Jamma,
Wow. Thank you for posting this!
It’s definitely SYNCHRONICITY at work, and yes, the language of the unconscious is symbol. That is the modus operandi! The more you consciously unravel these symbols, the more you let them ‘sink in’ intuitively, the more you honor and respect the messages of your unconscious self.
My first feeling is to check your current Saturn (Shani) transits. What are you experiencing now? How does that ‘pinpoint energy—very Saturn by the way—represent? How are you ‘distributing’ Saturn in your own life and in your relationships with others?
It seems that devotion to truth (Satya) is the key to uniting Saturn and the other deities!
Saturn is honoured by ‘feeding crows and dogs’ (offering love to outcasts)! Wearing sapphire or obsidian, black onyx or any black stones also ‘carries’ Saturn in our lives.
Saturday is of course Saturn’s day.
Can anyone post some prayers to Saturn, Kronos or Shani?
Great dream!
Kim
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Post by primamateria on Dec 3, 2005 3:08:30 GMT
Hi Kim and Jamma,
I've searched through some of the books that I thought I'd find an invocation or prayer to Saturn - found something which I will post about later but Jamma here is the prayer of thanks to Lakshmi...its a mantra
OM Nameh Lakshmi Namah
Peace and Prosperity,
primamateria
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Post by jamma on Dec 3, 2005 22:24:28 GMT
Dear Kim and Prima ... Thanks for all the feedback!!! I searched for a prayer to Shani, which, I learned, should be said on Saturday -- today in the US ... (btw, I was also born on a Saturday, so just in case I hadn't gotten the message via astrology, here's my part of the old rhyme: "Saturday's child works hard for a living" -- sheesh!) Below is some info from the Shani page ... I'm not sure what's what -- which is the prayer -- Dhyanam, Mool, etc.? ... Anybody know what to do with the numbers? I don't have an idol of 5 metals but I already wear a sapphire ring ... The cut and paste lost some of the coding, so I've added the link at the end ... PLUS: Prima, on this same page, you can click on the Rahu Graha (from list on left), and it will give you all the info and prayers for the NORTH NODE! (Are we cookin' with synchronistic gas, or what?!) ;D Love, J mailerindia.com/nava/index.php?tsaturn |
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Post by primamateria on Dec 4, 2005 9:41:38 GMT
thanks for that Jamma...yes we certainly are cooking with gas!
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Post by Guest on Dec 5, 2005 2:38:26 GMT
Jamma,
In the ancient world before time was it is said, there were priestess' who were custodians of knowledge and wisdom and their gift was in shakti - they channeled the light for others to use in order to manifest. They were considered sacred beings. Then there was a schism and the goddess went underground in order to protect the earth from being abused. Each power spot of the earth is a remnant of what existed in the etheric since the original temples were withdrawn "to remain hidden and buried until mankind's perception can open to them". Apparently, these ancient temples were geometric in nature and where the Goddess lives and dwells. "Associated with each of the 12 temples was a high priestess and she would arch the light all into one, and divide of them between the 12 priestess' according to their needs and requirements. Much trial, much of what you would call initiation, and learning and teaching was given to the priestess' until one would be seen as worthy of carrying all twelve flames. For all beings everywhere carry all twelve flames". It's a matter of development into higher consciousness and has to do with the chakras and planets and the ability to balance the solar system until one is "beyond dimensions - where the paralell worlds of life are fulfilled." It's a huge responsibility and takes life times. Maybe that is where your feeling of responsiblity comes in but the original joy involved.
Just food for thought,
Jade
ps, i keep showing up as a guest because I forget to log in....will try to remember....
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Post by Kris on Dec 5, 2005 5:56:55 GMT
Hi Jamma and others,
Enough research had already been done by the members to get basic feel of Shani the Vedic name for Saturn. He is a 'task master' in western astrology and 'trouble maker' according to Vedic astrology.
Traditionally in India:
Shani represents black color. Shani is the biggest evil. Every trouble humans face is attributed to Shani. Statements like "Shani sitting on head" are commonly heard. According to Vedic astrology Shani is good, bad or neutral according to the placement of rest of the planets in the chart and the AC. There were numerous configurations to decide what Shani is for a native. I cann't narrate them all here.
Black sesamum oil is offered to appease Shani. The priest at the temple offer prayers on behalf of the native. Alternatively, some people offer sesamum oil to ShaniDev (representative of Shani) who visit houses every Saturday. Number 19 represents Shani. Prayers, if started, should be offered by chanting Shani Sthotram (Sanskri recite) for 19000 times uninterrupted during a period of days chosen by priest. Interruption invites even bigger problems, it is said. The Shani Sthotram is out of my memory now. I shall post it later on.
Every priest won't offer prayers to Shani, only designated priests who undergo a sacred ritual only can do it.
Trying to wear a gem stone for Shani ? Well, I suggest not to do it in a hurry especially if you take the name Shani not Saturn.
More in next post.
Kris
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Post by jamma on Dec 5, 2005 19:46:13 GMT
Wow, Jade -- this is exciting ... Thank you so much!
Where did you find the legend? I would love to learn more ...
I was so moved by this part: "For all beings everywhere carry all twelve flames" ... that's what we're doing here on the forum, isn't it -- trying to explore and learn to carry all of our flames? ...
And Kris -- I hoped you would weigh in on this ...
As I said, I have no real knowledge of Indian myth (perhaps that's why the dreams speak to me this way -- so I'll be curious enough to think about their messages) ...
I would be very happy to hear what you have to say about Vishnu/Lakshmi (and their combining as Laksminarayana) and also about Shakti ...
I will be careful about invoking the Indian dark deity's name and will stick to Saturn from now on ...
Having Saturn so strong in my chart might be considered a burden by some, but I have learned to get along with him most of the time ...
And I do consider Saturn "good" ... without him there would be no structure and no Time ... we would all exist as formless "potential" ... of course, I know attaining this state is the goal for many religions ...
Maybe Earth is a washing machine, and Saturn is in charge of laundering the material world ("perfecting perfection") until the cloth disintegrates and our universe returns to pure energy ...
I have sympathy for Saturn, forced to toil until the end of Time ...
Thanks again, J
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Post by jade on Dec 6, 2005 6:37:03 GMT
Hi Jamma,
Those were some powerful dreams. Dream-wise it's thought, that when intimate with the animus or anima of ourselves as depicted by another in our dreams, it can convey a merging with the soul, or at least a recognition between soul and personality toward wholeness. "A marriage" of opposites (maybe you already know this).
In regards to the legend, there is a website; http/:www.fullfillmentmeditation.com. There is a book you can order, "Before"....... It might stir some memories. There is another book (as well as others)"Shakti", it's good too.
Perhaps those words touched you because in your heart, you carry a universal perspective (not hard to imagine since you are a Pisces to boot). Those words touch me too in the sense, that it's important to recognize that the same potential resides in all.
As for Saturn, I have it in Capricorn in the 7th house (square sun/merc rx, 11th/10th....Creatively, I'd always felt blocked. I'd always wanted to write (mars conjunct Gemini asc.) and I remember one high school year, the teacher told me my paper was "very poorly written"....ouch! I contradicted myself on the topic matter throughout the paper. I now recognize it was the Gemini influence and not just my saturn stumbling block! It seems with the two, I didn't have the confidence (saturn) to take a stand on either side (gemini). I was a hodge podge of ideas seeking a focused outlet. It was so frustrating I used to sit at my typewriter (remember those?) and literally cry. So I would write about feeling frustrated....at least that was something. Interesting how with Saturn though that at a young age, we take such things, like even constructive criticism to heart. We are already so hard on ourselves or at least I was. We are acutely aware of our failures and what seems to come so easily and graceful to others. I think it also gives us the insight though that being jealous or envious of this toward others is not the way. We plug on, saturn wise, knowing applying ourselves with perseverance (all the way fighting doubt) will bring just rewards. Maybe that could relate to what you stated... "Maybe saturn is in charge of laundering the material world until the cloth disintegrates and our universe returns to pure energy". Saturn will have to sacrifice itself, and "toil until the end of time" (itself). I feel sorry now for me too!!! lol
Have fun with your explorations of Saturn/Shani,
Best, jade
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Post by jamma on Dec 6, 2005 7:20:43 GMT
Jade, you are so intuitive! ... when I was talking about Saturn, I was tempted to call him Dad! Thanks so much for the link and book tips ... My Saturn is in the 7th, too, in Leo, quincunx my Pisces Sun and Capricorn Asc -- what fun, eh?? I was talking to a friend tonight about how I don't think I get as depressed as some of my peers because I have such diminished expectations -- "Gee, I didn't break any bones lately -- what a fabulous life!"  ... And I know what you mean about writing ... It's so hard to get over the self-doubt ... I am SUPPOSED to be writing, I know (Gemini NN, Mercury in 3rd house), but I always end up wondering, "What have I really got to say, any how?" ... I can do hack writing -- put together a few paragraphs to wrap around a picture for a newspaper story -- but I can't seem to get going on fiction (have REAL trouble creating tension -- I want all the characters to have perfect, wonderful lives and live happily ever after -- ha!) ... This is the only kind of writing I really enjoy -- letters to kindred spirits! ... Have you read Eileen Naumann's article about what it takes, astrologically, to be a writer? ... She says one of the necessary things is to have a strong SATURN connection! ... www.azastrologers.org/Articles/Nauman-Writing.pdfAnd the other good thing about Saturn ppl is that we tend to flower later in life!  ... Be of good courage! Jamma |
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Post by Guest on Dec 7, 2005 9:16:57 GMT
Hi Jamma,
The "Dad" part on my post regarding saturn was deleted after you must have read it. Our posts seemed to have crossed in cyber-space last night (it's not there now).
I have a major inconjunct also and yes, it's just been oodles of fun! Mars on asc. (gemini)inconj. moon in the 8th house (Capricorn). As posted above, my saturn is also in the 7th in Cap. and it squares my Aries sun/merc. My mother used to wonder why I was different than my Aries father and sister.....saturn. I used to think of my own concious as "not letting me get away with anything!" Harks of retribution built in..... Regarding inconjunct planets, as Rodney King said "can't we get along"? I hashed my moon/mars out in my thirties through a relationship (unbeknownst since I had no computer back then or the appropriate sources to really study). Back then, transiting uranus and neptune were conjunct my moon/psyche. That period of life changed me completely after much emotional embroilment, but had magical elements also. That decade has been the material for something I've been writing on for years and hoping to get back to soon. But there are times when I'm in a phase and it just doesn't seem that important. "Diminished expections".....sometimes I expect to finish it and it be successful....sometimes I expect it will take more than I can muster and not be finsihsed and inwardly I will feel a flop for giving up the try. "Eh, it's just my ego wanting recognition anyhow", I conclude (saturn is good at that) because it's easier to use that as an excuse and be mentally lazy! It's tricky sometimes, because saturn can use itself to hide behind. I think that there has to be, as Eileen Naumann states, a passion, fueld by something inspirational and deeper, like pluto or neptune that causes saturn to keep seeking to harness the dream. I have saturn sextile neptune in scorpio 5th, neptune opp. venus in Taurus (I'm lost without some form of inspiration even if delusional at times ) neptune trine pisces m.c. , saturn trine pluto on the ic. Seems to me, that even though saturn has often represented my own ego and the battle between it and the dream, it's the friction between the two that creates the transformation. I think that with the outer planets as the impetus which can literally "change our minds", this is why so many with saturn feel the blocks so profoundly or so frustratingly and the means of expression the same way. Theres a tension there between the manifest and the unmanifest on a psychological level particularly with the harder aspects to saturn.
With your leo saturn inconj. Pisces sun you'd probably be a person who could shed insight on the person who was the catalyst for so much in my life. He had Pisces sun/jup in 12th trine neptune/8th and leo moon/mars in 5th. He was an interesting mix of compassion and a very large heart, but also given to arrogance at times and getting what he wanted (probably sun opp. pluto had some to do with that. Plus ven/s.n. opp. mars/moon with saturn in wide opp. to moon. We both were two dysfunctional wrecks....lol. But deep down, the best of friends (composite sun/venus in 11th.....our human issues just kept getting in the way! ). Now with transiting saturn in leo, I've wondered at times what his current process is. What has been your experience with saturn in leo natally, or also with it inconjunct your Pisces sun? What have you experienced in how that affected you in your relationship/s (saturn 7th.) Have you often felt two different parts of your nature (sun/merc/pisces, leo/saturn) seeking reconciliation? Guess your Capricorn asc. plays into that largely also. What house is your sun in? I can say that with mars/moon inconjunct, it was mars on the ascendent that finally reconciled my dilmea emotionally. I had been (a classic interpretation for mars/moon inconj. is a "love martyr"), and I was one until I finally recognized my own needs as well. Then I got very mad, and all I'd repressed deep down subconciously (mars on 12th house side) came up. I had to forgive two people, him and I both and it did change me, but at the time, him, unfortuneatly, not much. He wouldn't participate in helping to heal what we had been in denial of (individually or together) for so long.
I'm happy to state though that through it all these past years, writing is something I have never given up on. It's just that it haunts one sometimes when neglected. Diminished expectations are felt more now in the relationship area. My venus opp. neptune was shatterd. I mourned my innocent view of the world. Maybe though, I've wondered, it's just more about being realistic (saturn) where once, one could have been full of foolish fire and had expectations that were better off diminished! I think though, that we should expect life to be fulfilling in what ever way we seek it. Still having dreams is important to me.
Eileen states that Merc. in Pisces elicites "sonnets, poetry, emotionally intense fiction", but you said your characters seem to lack the tension you seek. Maybe your Pisces sun inconj. leo saturn holds a key in that dept. in some way. I know my inconjunct planets held a key to some of the most fundemental aspects of my nature. Do you have any planets in Capricorn on the asc. or in the first house? The inconjucnt leo saturn to your ascendent would probably hold a big key as well to your life's purpose, or at least be a stepping stone there. Other aspects in your chart may show how you might share that purpose through fiction or poetry. How does saturn manifest the light of the sun?
Okay, that was alot of questions and it's late.
Best, jade
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 7, 2005 21:47:18 GMT
These are very interesting insights into the inconjunct. Thank you! Have you noticed that, at least for Jamma, a YOD is involved (Asc sextile Sun-both inconjunct Saturn) These 'double quincunx or double inconjuncts' do make the 'finger' or apex planet 'KEY', as Jade points out, to expressing the energy in a creative way. With Saturn activating that point, all the energy of Asc. (outer expression) Sun (purpose) and Saturn (ambition, limits, boundaries and condensed, sharp focus) demand some kind of experience. Can you recall what was going on when Neptune was at the opposition to the apex of this YOD, Jamma? When Neptune was 3-5 degrees Aquarius? That would have been in 1999. Uranus would have opposed the point in 1997, perhaps paving (demolishing?) the way for a new dream? Anything stand out? Inconjuncts are so like 'detour' signs. You are going along the path, whistling Dixie, and the next moment life picks you up and puts you in a WHOLE NEW UNEXPECTED situation and says, "Deal with it!" I have Saturn in the third inconjunct the Sun (10) Scorpio to Gemini, with Saturn triggering by the square/sextile aspect-- so this material is all very 'close to home!' Kim |
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Post by jade on Dec 8, 2005 4:34:50 GMT
Kim,
I kept feeling the need to visualize Jamma's chart. My mind kept veering off to find it, but couldn't manage it. Now that you state there's a yod involved, that does seem a potent focus. I will be interested in what she has to say, particularly with Neptune in opposition to the yod. Many years ago I read a book that stated (to the effect) that our perception here is an "apex of focused tensions", not so much in balance but rather a mix of imbalances and that it's the "imbalance" that makes this possible. Makes one wonder then, that if that imbalance is imposed upon, like with netune or pluto by transit, what kind of mind altering experiences or at the very least, new perspective on life is had?
With your saturn in third Kim inconjunct the sun 10th, (aspects and planets so similar with Jamma even though different by sign and house), it would be interesting as to what changed your life and led you on the path to being a writer your self. Did this aspect, perhaps triggered by something else, lead you away from a calling or support it ultimately? Like you said, and I have to agree, we are merrily on our way toward something when we then feel sequestered into something that has seemingly nothing to do with our original purpose. In my case back when, at a point all felt lost. I'd felt to have fallen off my path completely, and felt despair over wasted time, etc. But I found that the experience did ultimately fit in, just that at the time the purpose of it was hidden.
Jamma, we're hoping you chime in....
Jade
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Post by jamma on Dec 8, 2005 5:01:58 GMT
Dear Jade -- I have LOTS to talk with you about re: Saturn and Leo and inconjuncts and writing blocks/ego issues/excuses and the Aries/Pisces dynamic (my late husband had Sun in Aries, with Moon in Sag opposite his Gem Asc -- talk about dysfunction!)... In fact, there's SO MUCH to consider that my brain feels like a teakettle about to boil over ... I think I need some quality Saturn time to sort it all out ... ... Could you possibly post your natal chart and aspect list on photobucket and send me the links? ... YIKES, Kim, I never knew how potent Yod aspects could be ... In 1997, the Uranus opposition to Yod pt, my dad died and I felt as if the ground had crumbled beneath my feet ... my whole foundation was destroyed ... until that time, I never realized how much I depended on my dad just "being there" ... despite the uncomfortable interactions we often had, he had always been my rock and I suddenly felt cut adrift (mixed metaphor, I know -- maybe my rock was in the middle of the ocean) ... In 1999, Neptune at 3-5 Aquarius coincided with my first experience of the internet (the ultimate sandbox for Uranian/Neptunian hijinx, as I would come to find out -- the hard way) ... What happened, almost immediately, is that I became involved in a chatroom "romance" with an Aquarian (synchronistically, just yesterday I calculated my Venus/Mars midpoint, and it's at 4 Aq 59'!) ... Well, down the Rabbit Hole I went ... landing smack-dab in the middle of Fantasyland, where Neptune had a field day ... The other person's mysterious way of communicating, intimacy countered by aloofness, disappearing for long periods and returning just as unexpectedly (all in cyberspace), only fueled my imagination ... Adding to the mix, my natal Mars in Aquarius trine Uranus in Gemini magnetized my curiosity, and I quickly became obsessed with this mystery man ... After more than a year of mental anguish (and some devious spade work on my part), I was able to discover the Truth (all hail Satya) ... And the Beautiful Illusion vanished ... My dream man had never even existed ... "he" was a fiction, created by a woman ... I was heartbroken, just as if someone I loved had died ... (mourning the loss of someone who never was -- that's gotta be the ultimate mind bender) ... When I was finally able to confront the woman, she explained that pretending to be a man online had been an exercise for a writing class ... but I still wonder if she got some sick thrill out of gulling me ...  ... (Just ran a quick natal on this woman -- her Neptune is exactly square my Sun) ... Now I'm going to pay more attention to Yods! Jam |
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Post by Amoroso on Dec 8, 2005 13:04:07 GMT
Dear Jam,
I just wanted to let you know that a similar Internet hoax was experienced by my dear brother. He was hit hard by Eros and it turned out to be a male reporter posing as a woman to do an article on men who fall for much younger women. Other than the fact that the topic seems stupid to me, it was a very cruel experience for him. He confronted the journalist who had the grace to be a little sheepish, but it was devastating to him none the less.
I am glad the experience is behind you enough that you can analyze the transits. Great thread!
Blessings,
Amoroso
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