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Post by Kim Falconer on Jun 25, 2004 1:27:17 GMT
This new thread is for those interested in quantum theory and its parallels with mysticism and astrology. A new post on my main sight concerning the symbol of Aries and the nature of causation and time might be a good start. www.nrg.com.au/~d-falcon/Guide.htm#bearerAny comments? Warmly, Kim |
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Post by svenskasfinx on Oct 6, 2004 23:47:35 GMT
Hello Kim,
I was considering that idea of non-linear time, how our awareness could actually itself can in fact transend the idea of time as a straight forward event, and that "cross fertilization" idea proposed by Jung, concerning the roots of the archetypel---
I was playing around with a fictionalization that for some select few, there is an awareness that time itself is not linear.. dealing with the idea of quantium physics in an older sense that one's own awareness of the events can contaminate or change the results you see due to expectation.. (the old, "is light a partical or a wave?" arguement, both but our expections persude even our scientific instruments...)
And this change of results due to awareness, or expectations does not limit itself to humans, because we know, chance itself increases the chance of the event happening again in the future, and this expectation of the event also brings about probability.
Although it sounds convoluted, it draws a picture of a snake eating its own tail, or that figure eight on the side called infinity...thus in my shaping of my fiction, I could address actual theoretical ideas pertaining to the shape or form of time, and its behaviour, and how the consiousness of a creature can influence it by its own expectations, much like ideas concerning religion.
It is in this expectation, or awareness there has been something in the past that some how steps its influence into our future, sitting itself at a rather odd angle and feeding its events back in the same way two mirrors could possibly refect each other for a theoretical infinty or how an amp can "feed back" with what seems to be no percievable sound to our ears.
I hope this was going in line with what you were thinking about, or give you something to pick appart or play with.
Thank you for your artical,
svenskasfinx
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Post by Kim Falconer on Oct 8, 2004 1:03:55 GMT
Dear Svenskasfinx,
This idea of how awareness and expectation might lead to a particular experience is interesting. Astrology, of course, tells us how we might perceive something, our orientation to it. Hence, we get a picture of events based on predictable perception and “expectations.”<br>
I think I understand you to be saying that if we “expect” time to be linear, then our experience of time will be such—a leads to b. That expectation, however, may not be coherent with all possible outcomes. B may, in some cases, lead to A. We are indeed back to the Uroboros, the snake that swallows its own tail.
How do you see this relating to Jung’s concept of Archetypes—underlying connecting principles that occur in all places, in all people, in all times? Do you see this as a kind of unconscious “awareness”, the roots of a collective unconscious link?
Thank you for your comments here. I was beginning to wonder if anyone out there was interested in this thread of thought!
Warmly,
Kim
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Post by svenskasfinx on Oct 12, 2004 20:52:30 GMT
Dear Svenskasfinx, This idea of how awareness and expectation might lead to a particular experience is interesting. Astrology, of course, tells us how we might perceive something, our orientation to it. Hence, we get a picture of events based on predictable perception and “expectations.”<br> I think I understand you to be saying that if we “expect” time to be linear, then our experience of time will be such—a leads to b. That expectation, however, may not be coherent with all possible outcomes. B may, in some cases, lead to A. We are indeed back to the Uroboros, the snake that swallows its own tail. How do you see this relating to Jung’s concept of Archetypes—underlying connecting principles that occur in all places, in all people, in all times? Do you see this as a kind of unconscious “awareness”, the roots of a collective unconscious link? Thank you for your comments here. I was beginning to wonder if anyone out there was interested in this thread of thought! Warmly, Kim Dear Kim, Thank you for taking into consideration my some scattered less focused thoughts--  Intutively I feel that there are actually "real life" examples that show there is a kind of leakage from past/future events.. and not only humans have the ablities to go beyond linear time perception. I feel that "ghosts" and "promonitions" are good examples of the echoes of past, and future events.. engeries that are future and past, happening in the moment we call "now". The Jungian concept of Archetypes to me feels like more of a macro/mega cosmology conclusion... a theory that in some way, the minor mirrors the major and visa versa only due to the nature of our own perception, and the need for parts of the mind to play rolls in spacific ways. For me, in theory, I feel that because the brain itself is organized in such a way in the human animal, thus our society is more or less based upon this hidden inner structure; this inner structure influenced by the outer life, and inner life; this inner life and outer life influenced by envirionmental factors and universal factors which may or may not have a powerful effect, but influence none the less. The roots of that, are in essence the base areas of our own consousness and our own base layer influenced by biology and events happening on a universal level.... everywhere I look I see it as a convoluted circle or cycle that feeds its future with an ever non-existant past, which we in theory create when it suits us as a collective.. Ultimately our goals are to develop (probably ) to the point where we don't need to fall back upon the excuses of a bad past, or a future bleak and hopeless...for as I keep saying, the past is theory and the future supposedly hasn't been written yet... supposedly, and yet we are living in one moment influenced by all these events and energies around us called "now". Collective unconsiousness is an undeniably interesting theory, and I do subscribe to it, in my own way, but in the past a few teachers of mine in the field of art and "Goddess Consiousness" debated that possibly Jung was taping into more ancient wisdom. This ancient wisdom is obvious in this day and age, where we call, speculation and theories of things "Philosophy" and it happens to be dominated by men, even now in a modern world, where as the great Oracles of the ancient world, of Ancient Greece in particular, taught the founders of modern philosphy a few things, and they happened to be mostly women. (at least it wasn't almost certainly homogeny we find in our modern world in the reverse, as men too could be Oracles but it was disregaurded that women up until recent times could be philosphers because that would require thought.... and women were considered once like children, no thoughts and all impulse, but even that isn't true of children either.) Right now we live in a time where what was once mysticism could be considered as philosophical thought and theory, and once was philosophy and speculation is now called Science, and once was Science, (which was in conflict with mysticism, or religious mysteries) is now mysticism, and quantum theory is just back to the beginning of an "explainable" universe being speculated upon, with the ideas that our own thoughts about the universe changes its nature. Doesn't this sound a bit magical? I have been talking about this for years before when I found out that Chaos Theory found no longer in the camp of Philosophic debates but in fact considered hard science; who would have thought it? And it does all come back to the idea that sometimes people disregaurd as mysticism; "You are as you think, you think as you are." But this neglects to give me the one thing I want to really try..and was written down for me one day by a young lady from Scotland, "It it good to think, but a much greater thing to IMAGINE." This message says to me, one can transend the seemingly endless cycle by CREATING another set of ideas, and one does not have to be trapped by time, but rather create as one may wish.. and if it doesn't work, try harder, and imagine it bettter... I tried to answer this question as best as I could, but I feel a bit outside of it in some ways..but to think about this is a very personal thing to me at the same time, because I see how perceptions and expectations people have can ultimately determine people's lives.. and on the other hand, I see people so stubornly bent on not being influenced by the mystical that they feel that their lives are to be living examples that there are no mystical experiences, only interactions in the human mind...and that destiny doesn't exist. I on the other hand, see it both ways (mercury in gemini probably) because I have seen the mystical take place, and know that all things called chance, have a bit to do with how one sees it... so the better one's perceptions, the more likely one can "get it correct" or "imagine it correct". But ultimately we make our choices, so fate can be in our own hands, but if we don't see it as such, we tend to feel either in service to the universe or some greater force, and our lives are not our own... we have to have a bit of both to be balanced. Not all "cold logic" and not all "mystical" but one that suports the other... Human kind at best and worst... is out of balance... in some way.. thus archetypes were created by our selves and the needs we have and what we serve, none the less, a vicious circle. Thank you for your time, svenskasfinx  |
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Post by Kim Falconer on Oct 16, 2004 3:04:25 GMT
svenskasfinx said:
Human kind at best and worst... is out of balance... in some way.. thus archetypes were created by our selves and the needs we have and what we serve, none the less, a vicious circle.
Hi Svenskasfinx,
I followed your comments and evaluations here with interest. I liked most what you said at the end, about archetypes arising from the collective out of necessity. It is like that idea that some aspects of dreaming is a ‘compensatory’ action in the unconscious to create balance. Archetypes may be the collective unconscious’ way of creating or restoring balance on a larger scale.
When I spoke in the other post on this thread about Jung’s four laws of the universe—energy, causality, space/time and synchronicity—I made reference to the idea that the first 3 laws may actually be contingent upon consciousness as well.
Michael Talbot, “Mysticism and the New Physics”, says “…if the laws of the first three principles prove to be contingent upon consciousness, we may suspect a slow and continual change of axis from causality to synchronicity. At some point in the distant future causal laws may form the minority. In such a universe, consciousness and the other three principles would be seen as synonymous and as Satprem puts it, “The great equilibrium is found again.”<br>
Thanks for all your thoughts!
Warmly,
Kim
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Post by BodaciousBabe on Dec 8, 2004 12:16:03 GMT
Well, like, duh!!!! Of course! See, Kim, I let Pandora out a bit! BodaciousBabe |
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Post by absolutcranberi on May 13, 2005 7:15:27 GMT
Wow...what a take on Aires and the ancient protrayal of the glyph of the Ram Not looking ahead...but to what appears to be behind "him".
For me, it feels right....that the Ram is looking backwards and perfectly portrays the quote you gave from John Wheeler, 1977....referencing that at the quantum level "what the observer will do in the future defines what happens in the past"..... to me, at least this itty bitty small sliver of quantum terrority is pretty easily observed in action in everyones daily lives.... Heres what I mean....
IF...Aries rules WILL and ACTION generated by self-direction, then, the self determines what will happen in the future....thus creating first what happens in our present...and is untimately lived out....in our past.
Example: I determined long before it happened I would one day go into another world...the unbelievable breathless world of the sea that Jacque Cousteau took me into as a 5 yr old thru TV. Much that I did in many moments that became "my present" at age 10, age 15, and on and on....was learning how to accomplish what I WILLED to happen at age 5........and over time...I took a lot of self- ACTION toward that goal...learning how to dive... earning the money for the classes the equipment.....until finally.......I was estatically on my first dive...........living the "past" that I created in the future as a 5 yr old.
Coupling that idea with our natal horoscope...looking where Aries is in our chart, where Mars is directing our WILL and ACTION...seems to me would fit just right in order to identify what areas we have already self-derermined from the future self to ACT on..........showing us where we will ACT in this lifetime......to create an earthly living past that directs the soul toward its highest good.
When I think about Jungs findings on human nature....and the psyche.....and in particular his belief that Archetypes may represent very "archaic remnants" or "primordial images"..... I/we have to wonder... whose WILL and ACTION created the first schism that made Archetypes necessary? Eve? The Serpant? Lillith? The WILL and ACTION of the Creator Himself?
I dont see how we can separate the collective from the individual...because we all carry an Archetype signature in our natal birth chart. The Archetype speaks to us about our character formation...and as Jung said...."character is destiny"........whatever WILL and ACTION our future self determined is necessary to mold us into authenticity is what I think the natal birth chart points out for us through the placements of Mars and Aries and their aspects. Beyond the individual level....I think that by virture of the fact that many souls come at the same time...or within the same generation that similar placements of Mars and Aries in others natal charts to our own...show us that collectively we grouped together to perform an ACTION that would be beneficial to all of the universe...each individual path joining the same path of those others.
I think this is very different from the actual terrain we will have to cross to accomplish our WILL'S goal... I think the terrain is shown by the other planets ... sorta like......Neptune may tell us we are going to find a patch of very deceptive ground that we have to cross , mercury might or might not keep us on schedule....and we know Saturn isnt going to be letting us kick up our heels...(but staying sober on this journey is probably best anyway)....but but......Venus might give us one cute traveling companion....guess what Mars' WILL and ACTION might do then....now, that could be a great trip!!! The point tho is....the ancient glyph does seem to be telling us to look back.....review how we have put our WILL and ACTION to use. The Ram looking backwards from the future.
Blessings and Hugs to all....
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Post by william on Jul 11, 2005 3:58:11 GMT
Hello, this is my first post here in quite a while, i did introduce myself a while back, maybe a year. so.... hallo ;D I read somehting somewhere about light itself knowing no time or space. I attended an NLP seminar, and the fascinating thing about it, was that this particular gentleman recorded (in digital) his young children before they could really speak english properly ... the pre-speaking speak, which i find incredible in itself... he played around with the 'reversed' sound file... sped it up, and slowed it down until he found what appeared to be words. they said .... "he's recording me". someone attending asked: does time flow in both directions ... to which the fellow had no answer. got me thinking tho... my take on the hologram/matrix is that because light seems to know no time or space, thought conjures the action, and matter, no 'matter' how subtle is catching up due to matter being of a lower vibration than light. similar to spells being woven in thought and the event having correspondance to the weaving ... (if and when it happens) id love to contribute some cymatics to this kind of topic...aka vibration's affect on matter. i hope that bears some relevance to this topic. xoxo William |
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Post by Kim Falconer on Jul 11, 2005 22:58:15 GMT
Hello Will Scarlet,
I do remember your posts a while ago. Welcome back.
That is quite astounding, the recording of preverbal infants saying "he's recording us." Shivers.
You said, “…light seems to know no time or space, thought conjures the action, and matter, no 'matter' how subtle is catching up due to matter being of a lower vibration than light.”
As far as I can tell, that is exactly what’s happening.
Isabel Hickey, one of my first astrology mentors, always said, “Energy follows thought”. Because the planets represent “energies”, there seems to be a kind of dance between where the planets are, what we are thinking, what is manifest and how we respond. Synchronicity…and like you say, a spell woven.
Totally relevant.
Let’s hear more about cymatics.
;)Kim
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Post by william on Jul 13, 2005 11:15:21 GMT
Cymatics:~ The work of Hans Jenny was the first to inspire me to get right into this phenomena ... I'm actually right now listening to a live streaming on the lauralee show, an interview with John Reid. he is talking about egyption pyramids and tone, and how he has observed sound creating heiroglyphs!!! also how the digeridoo creates australian aboriginal art. www.lauralee.com/index.cgi?pid=3098anyway! audible sounds are creating mandala patterns, and they are moving in an organic fashion. the patterns can look like bacteria; spiral galaxies; dynamos; the symmetry is unmistakable. there have been experimental research done in the pyramids in egypt where ... his name escapes me ... made tones inside the pyramids & the pyramid started to vibrate and hum with the harmonics of these tones ... i imagine due to the perfect geometry of the way these structures were built. (fibonacci ratio). i have experimented myself with my PC, a speaker, and some powders, some basalt dust. the sound was both created from the PC soundcard, and a the pc piezo-speaker, disconnected and hooked up to a larger speaker ... was a good look for the pc mine did not look as gorgeous as these videos, but the science is total repeatable!! here are some videos of hans jenny's work: www.harmonyera.com/1.2.research.htmI really do not know how to relate these concepts into causation and time, but vibration IS moving matter. seems like it could be the same vein as crop circles, being that they are so beautifully symetrical. a clean tone, from any instrument, being so mathmatically beautiful, has to be pretty profound if they are creating these types of pattens. love deep William |
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Post by Kim Falconer on Jul 17, 2005 23:55:03 GMT
William, this is really fascinating.
I am guessing the question is, "how is vibration related to consciousness."
The answer would enlighten the relationship to causality and time.
Much to think about!
Thank you,
Kim:)
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Post by jamma on Nov 14, 2005 19:21:59 GMT
Regarding the world being stuck in a linear mindset, has anyone read Leonard Shlain's The Alphabet versus The Goddess? ... www.alphabetvsgoddess.com/Since the Age of Aries, humankind has been systematically developing the dominance of the brain's Left (linear, masculine, binary, competitive) lobe by the act of reading and writing ... and since it's been "in charge," ole Lefty has wreaked all kinds of havoc ... full stop? ...
in terms of "expectation determining the outcome," is there anything more reliable than words moving along in a line until they end in a ...Perhaps the backward-glancing Aries Ram is "remembering the future" -- longing for the re-emergence of the Right brain's wonderful ability to apprehend "everything at once" ... Dreaming gives us an opportunity to balance the books, so to speak, because dreams are PICTURE books ... ... And, to me, the astrological chart is another way -- the perfect image of ourobos: a never-ending circle ... a view of the cosmos that lets us see "future," "present" and "past" all at once ... and shows us that there is really no distinction ... WOW! -- an image of a lovely woman smiling down on a 3-D holographic horoscope just popped into my head ... oh, how I wish I had the tech ability to make one ... although, come to think of it, if the idea is "out there," somebody with the know-how is probably bringing it into the physical realm (am I "causing" this or did I just "perceive the future"??)Kim, I think I recall (or did I dream it?) your writing that in relationship charts, the aspects show not just how we relate to that one person but to everyone with that same configuration ... and everyone who ever lived or ever will ... Wish I could remember the way you put it -- it was so elegant ... I know this to be true ... And now -- to illustrate -- I shall share the tale of Capt. Kirk and the Me-Witch ... In one episode of Star Trek (circa 1967?), Capt. Kirk's body is taken over by the psyche of "the evil Dr. Janice Lester" (my maiden name, which meant every time the show was rerun, one of my friends would send me the listing page from TV Guide -- chortle, chortle) ... So, when Kim recently related the myth of Circe and included the pronunciation, "KIR-kee," I flashed back to the witchy (bit chy, too) Janice Lester as portrayed by William Shatner ... (woohoo, Jung would have a field day with this one -- Shatner, an Aries, getting the chance to project his petulant Anima for all the world to see!) ... Then I had a delightful thought: The screenwriter -- "way back when" -- chose my name because Kim wanted me to pay attention as she was explaining the Circe myth ... Have a lovely yesterday, Jamma 
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Post by Kim Falconer on Nov 16, 2005 20:41:31 GMT
And clearly, it worked! You have paid attention and this, or corse, leads to creative change! I love your insights! Thank you!!! Kim |
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Post by primamateria on Nov 17, 2005 11:00:01 GMT
I love this topic, thanks Jamma for bringing it to the surface again... I have a great book, which I'm very slowly working my way through, called 'The End of Time' (Julian Barber) which talks about time as being more like a big bag of triangles than a line or a circle. I'm not sure I understand Barber's theories as yet, but it does seem instinctive to me that time is not linear. Although, I confess, I often fall into that kind of 'linear' thinking - even when asking my 'future self' to guide me through something - because even the idea of 'future' implies a separation which may not actually exist. My 'future self' is also 'now', my 'now' is also my future, when does now become the past? This is the kind of thinking that does indeed lead to a kind of infinite loop (or spiral)... Light, PM |
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Post by Kim Falconer on Nov 19, 2005 1:43:27 GMT
Yes, the Arrow of Time is more like a circle! If you want a good reference for getting your head around linear time, look at your natal chart. In that one place is your entire life, "past" 'present' and 'future' all co-existing in the one moment. That's as good as any place to start! Kim |
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