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Post by svenskasfinx on Dec 8, 2004 11:02:34 GMT
Hej Kim and everyone! I was kind of curious after my astrologer friend Catarina said about relocation charts; I felt she may have too much enthusiasm for them, however I had a look and have been looking at mine for a while.. With the movement of the vertex, I feel a bit confused about exactly HOW much inflence a relocation chart COULD have. Any ideas? I've been thinking about it for a while now, so I thought after seeing some new objects added that maybe it was time to ask. RELOCATION CHARTNATAL CHARTI also have Pandora in conjunction with Chiron at 3 04' degrees Aries in the 7th house in this chart and Prometheus (1809) in the first between Pluto and Palla/Uranus at 23 55' degrees Virgo (although I am uncertain of its meaning, I the story of Prometheus as a connection between Pandora 55 and Chiron thus I looked it up. I'll put up a question about it later. Any ideas, or something I should know? It seems impressive having so much in the tenth house but I feel I'm really in the shadows most of the time and no real influence.. I'm not as ambitious as others here would like me to be.. Thanks ahead of time, and any comments or ideas are of course welcome, and don't be shy . svenskasfinx
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Post by Juliet on Dec 8, 2004 17:07:47 GMT
Hi!!
Your Mars (Cancer??, at first sight that's unclear in the chart you posted, I initially thought Mars was in Gemini...) conjunct Sun in 10... Mmm, but what about that square to that mighty powerful As/Pluto in 1/Moon in 12-stellium?? You are creative there, right?? For short vacations, I usually go to an island in the North of The Netherlands, NE from where I live... In the relocation chart my cap Moon moves from the 12th to the 1st House. I'm very openly emotional and open there, and unusually attractive to men. The (very beautiful) friend I travel with does not have this, otherwise it could also be just the change of scene.
I went to a Greek isle two years ago, and my Moon moved deep into the 12th, and I felt emotionally overwhelmed and unable to communicate my feelings.
In 1998 my family and I traveled to New Zealand, my relationship surged upward, so we had a very happy time there: my Sun, Mars and Pluto were in 7. The r was under constant scrutiny by me at that time (with exception of that holiday) , and bursted in '99. Moon in 11, and my As changed to Aquarius... Cancer vertex conjunct Ceres in 5... Thanks for your inspiring question, Svenska!!
Juliet
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 8, 2004 22:58:00 GMT
Svenskasfinx,
Thanks for bringing up relocation. I feel it is a very important part of what brings change.
As I have mentioned before, there are three things that model change astrologically:
1. Time (transits, progressions, directions, returns etc)
2. People (synastry)
3. Location (Astro*carto*graphy or relocation charts)
We have talked much about transits and synastry, yet very little, if at all, about relocation.
And Juliet is right, her examples elucidating!
I think it is important to compare the natal to the relocation. What has moved? How does that feel?
You say you are not in touch with your ambition though many people with a 10th house Sun are not either, at least not right away. It’s a big deal and it can take years to “grow into”. That everyone encourages you may be your ambition coming back at you from projection! That Moon on the Ascendant is VERY cautious. It doesn’t want to try anything new until it know it is SAFE, especially in Virgo, especially as your Solar ruler.
Perhaps just look at one planetary energy at a time and compare your experiences natally to that of your relocation. How do you feel different? The same? What seems to want to wake up were you are now?
I relocated to the other side of the planet, and boy do I experience some contrasts here to my natal chart. It doesn’t negate the natal, any more than a progression or synastry would. It is meant to be compared with!
Thank you both for this interesting thread!
Warmly, Kim
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Post by svenskasfinx on Dec 9, 2004 6:30:17 GMT
Hello! Thanks for the quick responces and wonderful insights!
I just edited my first post using some other asteroids (I couldn't fiind the exact combination, but the natal chart is UNDER the Relocation chart.
I still get the impression there is a lot of pressure for me to be ambitious, but then again, I had my own ways of dealing with that before, its just that they don't exactly work here (being as introverted as possible and then explode onto the scene with a new project)
This is how I've always worked, what happens is that my projects that I thought were "personal" become more of interest to my immidiate family and are more subject to critique before they are even done, so I seek solace via the internet, to show my work to others...
strange huh?
Oh never mind, I never thought myself ambitious, just not really bothered, but never really felt the NEED to be exclusively interoverted until I came here, where I tend to stir things up without trying.
I don't feel quite so beatiful here either.. partially because I feel more weighed down... not as free and easy going.
Lets talk about the movement of the things from the 5th house to the 2nd house, and things in my first house becoming 10th house... does this really make me project this way? Will others treat me this way too?
Just wondering.
Other relocation charts can be posted on the thread, so I can see differences between natal and relocation charts if you don't mind... I'd like to see examples and ideas here.
Thank you so much!
Svenskasfinx
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 9, 2004 10:00:07 GMT
Dear Svenskasfinx,
I’ll give you some charts to post as examples. I just have to have time to recreate them in photoshop without any data—it has to remain confidential.
Meanwhile, I am most interested in how Mercury moves from the “dark side of the Ascendant” 12th to highest position near the MC. I have to think that this new location would be conducive to learning, teaching, communicating, studying, computers ect ect.
People might “talk” a lot about your career…you might think a lot about your career!
I do find that the shift from the 1st to the 10th, particularly the Sun, makes for a more externalized ambition. If you don’t express it, or feel it, though around you with “pick it up” and send it back to you! So, yes, projection is possible.
What would you think about your own ambition if you had a dream that people were encouraging you to be more ambitious with career, mission or profession?
The shift from the 5th to the second makes me think that creative drives and the things you love (5th) are going to be turned into talents and resources!
How long have you been at your new location?
These things do take time.
More on this soon, Warmly, Kim
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Post by svenskasfinx on Dec 9, 2004 11:08:12 GMT
Hello and thanks Kim;
depending on the size of the charts, I guess you can epost them to me via my address here. Then I can put them directly to photo bucket, but if you want me to get you a photo bucket account, and give you access you I can give you details on how to post things yourself.
I understand that new things are not always so simple.
As far as the chart thing goes, I've been here for more than 5 years.
One of my biggest ambitions has been fulfilled but only to a certain extent. I would like to have MORE children, but if this chart is any influence, my 5th house ruler is in the 8th house, (I had a C-section due to sudden complications that happened at the last minute, so my husband would not like to go through that again)-
On the other hand, I have had chances to shine sometimes, during my time in school to learn Swedish, I have even found myself picked out for St. Lucia.. although I didn't win, I was surprised that I was even nominated, due to the fact I don't exactly look the part. I did sing with that group and I even sang on stage for the school 3 times in one day in the spring festival.
I just really want my more artistic/creative side to shine as opposed to my mental side which is so mistake prone, in other languages, including English!
At my age, I have been considering even showing up for one of those "pop star" competions, the kind they show on TV, but I'm a bit shy about it, due to my age, and because it never happens to be on the correct date. My other friends said, they'd never know how old I am unless I said something (age limit of 29 on most of them) but I am as you say, super cautious, don't want to commit to something which wouldn't be good for my family.
Sorry for the long post.
Take care,
svenskasfinx
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Post by BodaciousBabe on Dec 9, 2004 13:14:33 GMT
Dear Svenskasfinx,
"so my husband would not like to go through that again)-"
With all due respect, what about "so I don't have to go through that again!" I hope to soon start a thread on Chiron in synastry between moms and their children.
And after reading your whole post, it sounds to me like the "relocation," at some level, needs to take place within yourself.
Some of the world's greatest singers, in all styles of music, are extremely shy and private people. They hear, and have to answer, a Call so distant amidst the din of this plane that it is hard to find the way.
And as for mixing your mission with caring for your family--well, it is hard to find female role models to emulate, but they are there. Think of taking "baby steps" toward your goals and they will be realized. I have am adult voice student, a female lawyer who works fulltime and has three young children. (typical hyper-yang American, right?) After studying singing and singing in choirs for three years, she "birthed" a brilliant idea for an unusual CD. She has been working towards that the past two years, in very baby steps, and it is taking shape.
We can't have it all at once, but we can have it all. (a message from my 12th house...)
And feel free to ask me off forum any questions about singing you might have. This is my field, or one of them, with that MH/Uranus/Pandora/Moon--among other asteroids-- "stew" at the top of my chart.
Blessings, BodaciousBabe
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Post by svenskasfinx on Dec 9, 2004 15:59:25 GMT
Hej BodaciousBabe thanks for the message only one problem: I want more children and would be willing to go through that and more possibly.. I want more children! He says, "consider what happened" and I say, " I'm still willing.".. I think one child is just so sad... and I imagined myself when I was younger with a house of about 6 children.. but time went on and I'm not as young as I used to be. So thinking that 2 will be just enough, is kind of hard, and the idea that someone, or something (even though no one but my husband and my mother in law has said to me that perhaps this is not possible) I would like one more child, now, when things are kind of quiet, and not when I feel my carreer taking some kind of form and then use it as an excuse not to fulfill my goal. I don't feel any real drive in anywhere else actually, save for those moments I would really like to get some reading done. Honestly though, I think my husband gives me problems with me even considering my having it all because, in some ways, due to his very nature, he doesn't always help as much as he should, and then wonders why I don't do what other people do. I have been very direct with him too about it. I can imagine that if I did what I wanted to and let things fall, they would fall. But there are always sacrifices one makes, for things to run smoothly. I don't get as many moments of peace as I should get due to the fact I have super energy boy, and a husband who suddenly becomes helpless at the wrong moments. (you know they do that sometimes ) And often I say to him: If things were turned about, would you want me to treat you like this? To which he gets a bit sullen. As a few male friends have said to me, once you start getting out there, the ballance of power is going to shift, and he should know he needs to be supportive now, or otherwise he may just become dead weight and hold you back. I on the other hand think, he just wants the mum thing to be a chore so I'd leave the domestic bliss and go earn some money. I on the other hand feel that jobs are resources and if I go out and take a job, and send my son to day school, I am using the resources unwisely (and that someone in need may loose a chance) because we don't NEED me to work, and I'm better than any day school as long as I get a chance to have some peace. (some people never see their children, and I am so sad about that, because why does one have children if one does not have them in their lives?) On the other hand, if I am talented, why should my age get in the way? When I read about the "developmental contracts" that people signed because they didn't know better, I would have to say that age makes one a little more cautious. My friend was really funny and said, "Have you ever heard of a band member or pop star say, "...I knew what I was getting into when I signed the contract.."? No, and the way the industry is going, its not very likely you will ever hear that phrase." I don't like being told what to do. I don't want nature or other people telling me, this is your life this is what you do... I'm disciplined, I'm cautious, but I really don't like other's to make important derminations for me.. especially with the phrase..."...I think you are too..." (fill in the blanks) short, old, fat, thin, ugly, beautiful, tallented, inexperienced, .. you name it. Ack! I guess I am a bit more Uranian than I assumed, or maybe too Chironic (is that a word?) I scoff at the professionall world, and I scoff at a traditional world, (which consiquentially never existed) for a world of my own making, so this is my problem. The solution: ?? Well, I am still trying to find out if it's OK for me to feel the way I do about the world... and because I feel my perceptions of things colours the way I see things, and the situations that arise, I try my best to think positive about it, and remain unbiased. Eventually I will move on when things don't suit me; hopefully I will create more opportunies for myself and other's when I do find my perfect place, but I do need love and support, and that is my main flaw, because I nose dive into love, when it's correct, because I see it as a rare gift, and sucesses in the professional world can only mean something, if you have that one rare thing... I'll do my best. take care, svenskasfinx
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Post by BodaciousBabe on Dec 9, 2004 18:13:30 GMT
Dear Sven...
Regarding your 10th house/MH--Caroline Casey says in her book "Making the Gods Work for You" that the MH can be indicative of career, but that it means "what you put out" and "what you take in." I like that description very much.
In the Liz Greene article I just posted under the thread on Apollo, she talks about the various meanings of the tenth house other than "job to bring in money."
And I had two C-sections and a loving husband who wanted me out of the house making money as well as in the house taking care of the domestic scene. Been there. Each of us has to figure out what our center is and operate from that point. Sounds like you are well in touch with yourself.
Blessings, BodaciousBabe
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Post by svenskasfinx on Dec 9, 2004 18:30:59 GMT
thanks for your blessings! thanks for your input. Dorian
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 10, 2004 11:27:01 GMT
Dear Svenskasfinx,
Thanks for the offer to post relocation charts. When I get time (I seem to get busier and busier, as does this forum!) I would like to put some up. I think learning about relocations from examples sometimes is the most expedient method.
It is so complex sometimes, the whole array of choices a mother has—more children, family responsibilities, career goals, artistic endeavours, time for fun, play and connection with like-minded others…and time to BE ALONE!
I think a good clue is to focus on what gives you the most enthusiasm. Trust that.
It never lets me down.
Strength and love and blessings, Kim
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Post by aquariusrising2 on Jan 24, 2005 16:54:42 GMT
Hi Kim and All: Just reading the posts above. I have a question. I am relocating to Denver (living in SC now) and I looked at my relocation chart. It looks, from what I can tell, pretty encouraging. Am I correct in assuming, from the threads above, and other things I've read about relocation charts, that the natal chart is always the focus and the themes, the strengths, the soul purpose, etc. This doesn't change. However, relocation may add new (added to, not negating) dimensions as to how you fulfill the "issues" in the natal chart. Some geographical locations better than others. For example, my ascendant (obviously) is Aquarius. In my relocation chart is changes to Capricorn. Would I, perhaps, find myself with a bit more of an ambitious personality, or more "stick-to-it-iveness"? My Sun and Venus move from 5th house to sixth house. This wouldn't affect my creativity, it would just make it easier for me to use it on a daily basis or, or it may be more healing? Am I on the right track with this?? So many different kinds of charts, so little time! ;D I greatly appreciate any input here. Thanks! A.R.
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Post by Kim Falconer on Jan 24, 2005 22:15:21 GMT
Yes, you are on the right track. First up, remember the three basic things that “associate” with change:
1. Time (transits) 2. Relationship (synastry) 3. Location (Astro*Carto*Graphy or re-location
The NATAL or RADIX (root) chart doesn’t alter, yet the above activities DO signify change.
Your move (you aren’t actually in Santa Cruz right now are you? My home town?) will bring your natal 12th house to the Ascendant, to the foreground. Not only will you have the more grounded, cautious and thoughtful approach of the Capricorn (people will see you as more ambitious, more stable, more pragmatic) you will also be more aware of the “unseen real”, the collective unconscious, your dreams, your hidden treasures, any skeletons in the old closets…you may want to work with those less fortunate or in institutions like hospitals or even prisons. You may develop a creative side you didn’t know you had. Does Saturn come to the Ascendant? That increases the theme of hard work, ambition, and determination. Also, perhaps working with other people’s “dark sides”.
See how this works?
You shift of Sun into the 6th brings the focus on health (improved with the Sun there—lots of vitality and energy). You may get into a whole new fitness program-gym, health food, work-outs—the body really enjoys this move! You attract what you want (Venus) while at work (6th)! The day to day routine, be it a new job or your whole new life, buzzes with creative expression. (your creativity (5th) becomes your job (6th).
Look to see what planet moves to an angle. (within 10 or 12 degrees). This will tell more about what themes will be highlighted by the move. What happens to the 7th house? The 10th? Does the Moon go into the 4th? Think of all the changes of the re-location as permanent transits to your natal chart while you are there.
Let us know how this fits with your reasons to move!
Warmly, Kim
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Post by aquariusrising2 on Jan 25, 2005 17:22:10 GMT
No, I am in South Carolina. I should have been more specific. Oh, Kim, I received your apptitude book! ;D I haven't gotten very far yet, and I will post a thread when I have read all of it, but so far, I can tell you, it is a book I will go back to repeatedly! Very good! Well, your reply is facsinating and encouraging . "Permanent transits" make a lot of sense. I am relocating for a couple of reasons, the first being, as you know, I am in a an emotionally, unhealthy relationship right now, and the second being, I am a musician (singer/songwriter, etc.) and I have been working on a project with a friend that I hooked back up with a couple of years ago, (after not seeing him for 12 years. More like a brother, another Gemini!) Anyway, both of us really feel like we have something "different" with the music we are creating, but as he is in Denver and I am in South Carolina it is impossible to perform together (writing we are able to do via computer, digital machines, etc.) So, with the realization that the relationship I am in is "wrung out" and creating music and performing is what I must (need) be doing again. (I've been out of the business for a while) I am going out west (I lived there years ago). I really feel in my bones that this is the time to pursue this. What you described above, couldn' t be more encouraging! It seems to bring to the forefront the components I've been missing to "get it together". In my relocation chart, Neptune moves to the MC and Mars to the IC (Moon & Mars in 3rd House now). Pluto to the 8th. Saturn conjunct ascendant and Jupiter in 12th. In my natal I have no planets on angles. Oh, Mercury moves to the 7th, Uranus remains in 7th. Am I correcting in interpreting Neptune on the MC as creativitiy and music related? It is also at the top of a kite now. Cool (I think?) Would this configuration seem to coincide with my reasons to move? (it seems pretty good to me ) I'm a little concerned with Saturn conjunct ascendant, unless that just offers more stability? As always your comments and insights are more than appreciated and if anyone has any experiences with relocation chart vs. natal chart, I'd love to hear. Have a good day (or night)! A.R.
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Post by Kim Falconer on Jan 26, 2005 0:41:51 GMT
South Carolina? I always think of lovely trees! Yes, your move makes sense…Mercury up to the 7th and you partner with a Gemini, Neptune on the MC and your musical career takes off…and that Saturn on the Ascendant, well don’t worry. My son has Saturn on the Ascendant and he is the most focused, and subtly ambitions, guy you can imagine. If you want to “get it together” moving to a “Saturn line” may do just that. I am glad you are enjoying Astrology & Aptitude! Thanks for that feedback. You may find it helpful to read you “re-location” placements in there too. When I relocated here to the Bay, my natal Pluto moved from the Ascendant to the IC exactly opposing my “new” MC in Aquarius. One of the first things I did was break-up/divorce…something that had been simmering for a very long time. Any other experiences of how relocation can work”<br> Warm wishes, Kim
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