return charts

[tara]

Hi Kim,

I don't know how I missed your article before. It is great! I'm working on figuring out my return charts.

Since astro.com only does Solar and Lunar returns, I got my Mars and Saturn Return charts by editing the data, and narrowing down the exact time each of those planets was exactly (to the minute) conjunct the natal placement (it took awhile). I think this would give me the correct return charts.?

I noticed my my mars return ASC is only one mnute (not degree) away from natal sun - pretty much an exact conjunction. This shoud be an interesting two years.

And as the stars would have it, I will have two Saturn returns in a couple of years! Within 8 months of each other, due to Saturn's retrograde cycle. Figures!!

As usual, I am fascinated by astrology. I thank you for all of the input you have given me. Your article is really helping me out.

I'm going into one of the other forum topics now to post yet another question.

peace and light,
tara

[Kim Falconer]

Tara,

I am glad you liked the article and find it helpful. Post me your birth data (in an email or private message) if you like and I will quickly double check your Mars return chart. The way you did it on astro.com is how I do Eros or other asteroid returns, though you need to get it down to the second! (degree:minute' second"). I'll check it out for you as a small error will alter the house cusps and Ascendant dramatically. (Or, it might be perfect and you are right on track!)

Warmly,
Kim

[Amoroso]

Dear All,

I have a question about Return Charts.

Is there any point in comparing someone's Eros or Venus Return with another person's natal chart? Taking the idea that "people are permanent transits," how might this work?

I had not taken the time to explore Return Charts until Chrissy's posts. I have gotten a handle on returns by taking the date and time of significant events and looking at my Venus and Eros Returns. I am intrigued that there can be such a "cosmic overview."

Happy Winter Solstice and various December Holidays, everyone!

Blessings,
Amoroso

[Kim Falconer]

And happy Summer solstice to you!

I'm frantically updating Eros into Aquarius right now but will come back to this return topic soon!

Blessings,
Kim

[Amoroso]

Dear Kim,

When you have a chance to answer "Is it valid to take one's Eros or Venus return and compare it to another's natal?" I am still interested.

Remember the astro tutor you just did for me and I said "energy was moving?" Well, in light of my posts on other threads this week, I would say it's moving plenty, just not in the ways I expected!

Blessings,
Amoroso

[Kim Falconer]

Amoroso, thanks for the reminder—Everyone, if you have a question I haven’t addressed, just keep after me!

And, in terms of energy moving, that's often how it happens...we think a specific thing or area or person needs to open and then, as if a door was invisible right in front of it, something else opens first—totally unexpected!

I'm not sure about comparing a return chart to another natal--what is that actually going to say?

The return is a layer of the individual's natal and when you bring another into it, it will not have so great an effect—oh!!!, unless you are saying that in your Venus return (or whatever return) you have say Mars at 10 Aries and someone out there has natal Mars at 10 Aries--well then yes, that means THEY become a goad for something in your return---you project something onto them and back it comes! But your return chart isn't really doing much for them, save to bring them into the 'right place; right time, as it were. It's a synchronicity thing.

Is that what you meant?

Can you give me an example to work with?

Kim

[Amoroso]

Hi Kim,

An example would be a comparison of Person A's Eros Return with Person B's Natal:

His ER AC conjunct her Neptune
His ER Mercury conjunct her AC
His Juno conjunct her Sun
His asteroid "Neely" conjunct her Juno

And several reverse examples:

Her ER Pallas and Moon conjunct his natal Neptune
Her ER Pallas and Moon opposition his Moon

In theory, perhaps being around the natal person would waken this energies in the Return person, and how is that different than natal to natal?

When I have some time, I can take a look at previous Eros returns and natals, and glean some information that way.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Amoroso

[Amoroso]

I may seem to be talking out of both ends on the forum right now--all the threads on Chiron and my husband and Eros Returns and C! I just posted on the Horary thread that my hsuband and I have Saturn on our composite IC. Well, C and I have Neptune smack on OUR composite IC, so there you have it.

ANYWAY, another interesting observation on this thread, is that at the time I fell for C, transiting Neptune was on my Chiron/Eros. But read from C's Eros Return Chart, with the idea that people are permanent transits, my Chiron/Eros was on his last Eros Return Neptune.

Is this valid logic?

Amoroso

[Kim Falconer]

Yes, it is valid.

Neptune by itself in the chart is not so 'personal' though--it is more a generational thing until it connects with a personal planet or point. Your Chiron/Eros would be on EVERYBODIES return Neptune that year!

What makes it personal is how Neptune is apected in C.'s natal and how the ER Natal aspects planets in that chart. For C, this would be conjunct his Vesta and Ceres in the natal 8th. What aspects did it make to his Eros return chart? Angles, points and personal planets?

That's where it becomes more significant to him (though who needs MORE when there are so many synastry contacts?) I suppose these return contacts talk more about a 'when' than a 'why'! The 'why' is self-evident!

Happy New year!
Kim

[Amoroso]

Dear Kim et All,

In the synastry there is that Psyche-Eros inconjunct.

But in comparing his 2003 Eros Return, (his latest Eros Return was in October) My natal Eros is sextile his ER Psyche. A real AH HA moment, not that I needed one....

Thanks, Kim.

Amoroso

[jade]

"Duh"....how did I miss "Return Charts"?

Thank you Kim.....It's the solar return chart for the coming year. The nodes were ran on "true node".

The specs again:

Asc/Dsc 4.35 Libra/Aries, respectively
IC/MC 4.59 Cap/Cancer
SN 4.21 Libra

Thanks so much Kim for taking a look during your busy schedule.....Jade

[Kim Falconer]

Hi Jade,

Thanks for relocating!

This is very interesting--would you mind posting your natal chart and the return, so we can see how this fits in? It is rare that you get the sun on the Ascendant exact (one in every 360!) and with the nodes there too, indicative of a very important year for you!

Kim

[Kim Falconer]

Thanks for the post, Jade!

This is a VERY important year for you, especially in '5th house' matters--for starters.

Libra rising in the SR brings your 5th to 'first house importance'. EVERYthing associated with creative self-expression, children, play, affairs of the heart, speculation and dramatic performance, visual arts, even 'martial arts', takes on a new meaning.

The N Node on the Desc. speaks of a whole new kind of personal relationship or business partnership--one that really 'sets you on your path.'

The third house Sag. ruler says 'be open to new possibilities' regarding communication, the written and spoken word. I suspect that it is 'more than this year' that will be seeing things come together in this area of life. You have Saturn about to spend several years in that house! Hard work--time--reflection--and great focus (not to mention facing fears of failure and rejection--a must face reality for writers!) are required. This is only the beginning--and the beginning is quite optimistic.

Who wants to contribute more here?

I suspect the Asc in the degree of the node is saying you have experiences this year that you will never forget!

Comments?

Kim

[jade]

Thank you so much Kim!

I'm sure I'll refer to your words again and again especially as a form of encouragement.

A new business associate or love interest/partner would be nice. Funny how this past year I'd asked for "a helper" from the universe and you know with those with strong Saturn in the chart this is no easy task. I am though, weary of going it alone. There is this hollow place though where only a completed story can fill.

Last night, I dreamt of a man whom I stated to about marriage; "it's best to get this straightened out from the beginning" (needs and wants....if we're on the same page, etc). The symbology was interesting. He was doing "the women's work" in the dream, standing at the kitchen sink doing dishes. I knew he was a Gemini. Then I did my hair differently, sweeping my bangs across my forehead and fastening with a pin (perhaps to expose the third eye chakra?). There were two females there....youthful, as in one dream recently there had been one. I am seemingly always getting ready to leave to go somewhere and I feel a sense of sorrow in this and guilt. I realize either I am departing a certain part of myself now and venturing into the new and unknown, or, it's a reminder to not "abandon" those things which you list referring to the 5th house. I suppose the feelings involved depict the growing pains of integration. Probably a little of both, again having to do with Gemini and duality and the reconciliation between male and female, crone and maiden....taking what was once naivety and translating it into a form of learning and teaching.

Synchronistically, my Grand-daughter just handed me a picture of Humpty-Dumpty. He is sitting atop a wall. So many years ago, her Mother had handed me a picture of Humpty Dumpty when she was just one year older than what my Grand-daughter is now, four yrs. old, ("four"...there is that number again, as in the angles of the SR and with her Asc. being in the same degree as mine and her birth sign Libra! ) who's shell had been cracked and broken. I remember my thoughts had been "that's me, I'm always falling down". Maybe "all the Kings Horses and All the Kings Men" couldn't put Humpty-Dumpty back together again. Perhaps they simply did not know how. A shell is a fragile thing to break and harder still to put back together. I suspect it's not meant to be put back together in quite the same way, but in the way it is put back together, perhaps that's the key and if only we can translate that process.

Okay, well my Grand-daughter has just given me two minutes to get off this computer. The fifth house is calling me.....

Thanks again Kim!.....Jade

[jade]

Kim,

One more thing about what you said regarding transiting Saturn in the 3rd house natal right now, and how it refers to the SR charts for the next couple of years.

I peeked at the SR return chart for the year after this one coming up too and it is full.....Pisces is my natal 10th house and the 3rd house of the second SR chart is Pisces. Thanks for the hint! I'm seeing how this works now....

In that SR 3rd, is Mars, Kassandra, Pallas Athena, Mercury, the NN, Uranus and Medusa. It's like the Goddess' are stacking up to have their say.....

The SR NN is at 16.07 square to SR Ascendent 16.33. The NN sextiles Venus in the 5th and Eros 16.03 in the first. It's wonderful to find that the energies support one's endeavor. It gives the feeling that with as you say, "focus" and a willingness to face rejection, etc., it is very possible to manifest one's dreams. This has given a needed boost and confirmation to not give up and that we should always follow our intuition in what we are being nudged towards. The next step is the work!

Thanks Kim, Jade