Visions of Neptune

[Amoroso]

Hi Kim et all,

Bear with me, there's a theme here before my question!

My natal Neptune is at 27 Libra in the 12th house. (Vesta at 28 Libra and Ac at 29 Libra.)

My composite chart shows Neptune at 29 Libra in 3rd house

My progressed composite has Neptune at 27 Libra in the 11th house.

Now, the progressed composite with a certain person shows our NNode at 27 Libra in the first house. The NNode is also conjunct his first name asteroid at 28 Libra.

Neptune in Libra is a crucial placement for me, and I am wondering what the progressed composite NNode at this point might mean?

And then we have Mr. Eros transiting this area in early February.

The whole thing is getting way too intense even for me. And we are not even in contact right now. Perhaps this is all in my head and I am just using all the imagery as an intriguing puzzle.

12th house energy can drive you nuts, or it can be used as tremendous creative energy. So at this point, I will now go write an opera or raise funds for the tsunami victims.

Amoroso (Bodaciousbabe)

[Kim Falconer]

Hello Amoroso,

Yes, your Neptune is a key point and well and truly activated by this relationship. I think the P. comp Node there and Eros soon to transit is going to “light it up”.

This can lead to the type of event that really gets you in touch with the ineffable. I could be a very spiritual time of communion and merging with the collective (the opera and the Tsunami relief all have a Neptune feel).

Yet as Plato said, “Anything that enchants also deceives.” And here we have the shadow side of Neptune that can show us where we have been mislead intentionally or not.

My gut feeling is that the events on their way will show you how the nature of the relationship can only go forward (N. Node) if you have faith in the unknown future (Neptune). You have got to believe in this, one hundred percent—“Balls to Bones” as the Oracle said to Neo when she said that no one had to tell you that you were in love…you would know it, “Balls to bones…”

What do you think?

Kim

[amoroso]

I knew it!!!!!

Sometimes it really pays to do the calculations by hand.

In synastry, there is a (his) Neptune- (my) Sun opposition which is actually more complicated than that, but from what I "felt" about the relationship, I couldn't quite believe that there wasn't also an aspect the other way.

By hand I discovered there is also a (mine) Neptune- (his) Sun square. The idolization goes both ways, although it's pretty uneasy.

Kim, I also discoverd that his Chiron sits at my DC within 6 degrees (is that too wide an orb for Chiron?) and opposes my Neptune/ASC/Vesta.

My husband and I also have Neptune/Sun aspects. It is almost as if I carry within me an image of my ideal "god" which I see in both of them and I am, perhaps, an image of their "goddess."

The connections just keep getting more intense, not less. Ok, I'll keep healing, keep channeling, keep writing, keep working and taking care of myself and my family and I guess that's what "it's" all for.

Isn't there a saying to the effect that you can not see any gods that you do not have within yourself?

Thanks, everyone. I guess being snow-bound has given me time to write and "mist" up alot today.

Amoroso

[Amoroso]

Dear All,

Being called upon to meditate on Neptune has been illusive and frustrating up until last night. For the past month I've been trying to absorb some information in a book by Maurice Fernandez called "Neptune, the 12th House and Pisces: the end of Hope, the beginning of Truth." The book is a well-thought out attempt to help people evolve through understanding their Neptune, 12th house and Pisces. I've taken a hard look at myself and, as you all know, this relationship with "Chico," which is extremely Neptunian and Plutonian.

In general there is much written about Neptune that highlights its "deceptive nature," and Kim quotes Plato's "Anything that enchants also deceives.”

It is the way Neptune's duel nature has been expressed that bothers me. And then last night, bingo, I was reading "Penguins and Golden Calves" by Madeleine L'Engle and she draws the distinction between idols and icons, emphasizing that the word "icon" has come to mean something completely watered down from its orginial intent. An icon is something that brings one in touch with one's spiritual truths, but it is easy when an icon is a person, to have that person become an idol. And therein lies the Neptunian problem.

My Neptune resides in my 12th house, conjunct my ASC and Vesta. I think that perhaps makes me adopt as my own truths very easily the "truths" of the collective unconscious," such as "proper moral code," Women shall behave in a certain way, etc. Now I certainly have not thought I was that swayed by public opinion, but public opinion is NOT necessarily the same as the collective unconscionce. If I can learn to live more inside my own personal truths, I would have a tremendous effect for good on the collective psyche because I am already tied into that because of who I am.

I thought that this Eros transit through Libra to my key Neptune points in the natal and progressed charts (and very much so in the progressed composite with "Chico")would be putting me back in touch with "Chico" when the real "call" is this realization back to myself. (Vesta's energy.) Perhaps the Neptunian fog and deception isn't what has been awakened in me through Chico and vice-versa, but in ANTICIPATING that I would see him during this transit.

In the wee hours this morning, I had a very brief dream that showed me how I might see Chico again. He came to me and said the key was through "Thalia." I haven't had time to absorb that yet. But another key to Neptune is FAITH IN AN UNKNOWN FUTURE.

Question for Kim--have you written anything about a natal Neptune/Eros conjunction like you did with natal Chiron/Eros? If not, what are your thoughts on that combination?

Blessings,
Amoroso

[Kim Falconer]

I have written about Eros/Neptune in the natal chart and have posted it below. Let me know how this fits (and in true Neptune fashion, I got Plato backwards…again, my apologies)

Eros in Aspect to Neptune


Everything that deceives also enchants. --Plato

The astrological Neptune portrays a myriad of meanings from the dreamy depths of the watery unconscious, the longings of spiritual aspirations, the obsession of powerful desires to the revelation of the divine beloved. Some say it is where we seek the ineffable, or where, conversely, the ineffable seeks us.

This planet also symbolizes a place of confusion and deception because Neptune is sometimes too intangible for the mundane world to decipher. Certainly, its complex meaning defies summing up in a list of key words.

Any attempt to understand Neptune necessitates travelling down indirect waterways. No sphere of human endeavor is devoid of the longing for redemption, and we must therefore be prepared to explore not only individual psychology but myth, politics, religion, fashion, and the arts as well. Astrological literature tends…to be curiously limited in its descriptions of Neptune—even though the enormous edifice of psychoanalytic writing on hysteria, separation anxiety, idealization, and addiction are usually mentioned, as are the themes of karmic obligation and renunciation. But these terms are insufficient if we are to offer any genuine insight to the client, the patient or ourselves.” --Liz Greene

A deeper understanding of Neptune comes from a personal taste of despair that goes with a separation from the god. Many paths, including alcohol, addictions, obsessions, desire, love, devotion, creativity, manipulation, dreams, fantasy, madness and dissolving boundaries, are followed in the search for the illusive redeemer. All these things and more swirl around the archetype of Neptune yet still, like any other planet, like any other god, we can ask the three basic questions. What does our Neptune want, need and have to offer?

Eros and Poseidon

In mythology, Neptune, or Poseidon to the Greeks, wanted first his own realm. He was said to be second in power only to Zeus and was granted, after being freed from Kronos’s stomach, sovereignty over the seas, subterranean earth (but not the underworld of Hades) and the equine.

“I begin to sing about Poseidon, the great god, mover of the earth and fruitless sea, god of the deep who is also lord of Helicon and wide Aegae. A two-fold office the gods allotted you, O Shaker of the Earth, to be a tamer of horses and a savior of ships!”

Another object of Neptune’s mythological desire was woman. Women, Nymphs, goddesses, harpies, feminine rivers and stream all held a great fascination for the “Shaker of the Earth” and the list of his mistresses and offspring attest to his appetite for union. He laid with over 110 females, from Demeter who tried to flee him in the form of a horse, (wrong choice for a horse master), to Medusa, who suffered violently forever after. He had close to two hundred offspring ranging from the winged Pegasus by Medusa to the twin children of Demeter, Arion, a magnificent steed and Desponia the fair mistress who’s real name can not be divulged to the non-indoctrinated.

When Demeter was wandering in search of her daughter, she was followed, it is said, by Poseidon, who lusted after her. So she turned, the story runs, into a mare, and grazed with the mares of Oncius; realizing that he was outwitted, Poseidon too changed into a stallion and enjoyed Demeter. [8.25.6] At first, they say, Demeter was angry at what had happened, but later on she laid aside her wrath and wished to bathe in the Ladon. Demeter, they say, had by Poseidon a daughter, whose name they are not to divulge to the uninitiated, and a horse called Areion. For this reason they say that they were the first Arcadians to call Poseidon Horse.

The association of Poseidon with horses is not incidental. The domestication of the horse in ancient times lead to the development of civilization as we know it. Distances were traversed, food hunted, fields plowed and wars won all because of the new symbiosis with equus caballus.

In an intangible way, the horse represents the taming of humankind’s wild and barbarian nature and the ability to journey to realms previously out of reach. Neptune symbolizes the mystical travel between unseen boundaries, the acquisition of knowledge, nurturing or substance from those distant realms and also the conflicts or wars that are won and lost at the expense of such a journey. In this context, one of the things Neptune has to offer is the horsepower to travel to unknown realms. Also it seems to be something he very much desires.

Neptune used to get into quite a few disputes over territory. He wanted more and he was not shy about going after it. Most of the time, he lost out on gaining the land he so desired, but the realm of the sea, the rivers and the streams remained undisputedly his.

It seems that one of Neptune’s greatest longings is for union, preferably divine. Although he was married to Amphitrite, a Nereid, granddaughter of Oceanus, he still sought, wooed and sometimes raped innumerous others females. It is no wonder that the astrological Neptune speaks of longings and merging and union with the divine. Much of those Neptunian longings can be played out in the field of romantic love, especially if Eros is involved.

When Eros is linked to Neptune by an aspect of any kind, erotic love and transformation can mingle with the everlasting search for the divine. In the grasp of a romantic love spell, Neptune sees not a human counterpart but a glorious god or goddess and all may be sacrificed on the altar of their immortal souls. It becomes very unsatisfactory, however, when the gig is up and we find so much was given to a mortal human being, no more and no less. Idealization and fierce disappointment run hand in hand with this Eros/Neptune scenario.

The mythological Neptune also experienced ongoing loss as he attempted to secure more territory and was denied, or offered a boon to a mortal, such as King Midas, and was deceived. Anger and retribution were no strangers to the god, nor was the bitter sense of deprivation.

At one point Neptune solicited the aid of Aphrodite to enact revenge on King Minos whose greed had stopped him from sacrificing a prize bull to the god as an exchange for years of fair weather. Aphrodite obliged by causing Mino’s wife to fall madly in love with the bull. The result of the consummated love was the horrid Minotaur who raged in the bowels of a labyrinth, devouring young and virginal human flesh.

The astrological Neptune can stand for a time of loss and bitter resentment and, when it is associated with Eros, the seas of erotic love get a little choppier. When a union breaks down, and separation occurs, we may feel abandoned by the god. This is a suffering that no liniment can ease.

My god has forsaken me and disappeared,
My goddess has failed me and keeps at a distance.
The good angel who walked beside me has departed.”
(From Julian James--The Origens of Consciousness and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind--

The union with the other may turn into a reunion with the god, and the loss of that merging can lead to inconsolable grief or outrage. Many of Neptune’s offspring were monsters, and his seduction/rape of Medusa turned her into a bitter affront of twisting vipers, hideous stare and eyes that brought frozen death to any that glimpsed her. A dally with Neptune did not always turn out to be festive.

It is also true that Neptune had, beneath the seas, a palace of gold. Its beauty was unmatched in all the world. Sometimes a link between Eros and Neptune can take us down into the glorious depths of that mystical kingdom and bring back some of its magic into the daily life. An aspect between Eros and Neptune can also suggest the traversing of boundaries that only the horse master can arrange. A strong link can bring an erotic union that not only transforms the soul but the spirit as well.

Neptune, as a god, was very good at changing shape, yet he did not always covet the gift. He is known, on occasion, to share this ability to alter form and in the process he may alter our perception of reality and view of the world. With Eros in any aspect to Neptune, this kind of shift is possible through the medium of the erotic.

The only thing Neptune in aspect to Eros requires is a sacrifice in exchange for the boundless vista of the divine. Sometimes the required atonement, like what was asked of Medusa, can seem too high a price to pay. Other times, it may be worth its weight in Neptunian gold.

Much to ponder here!
Warmly,
Kim