LeYeL
Full Member
Posts: 45
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Post by LeYeL on Apr 14, 2005 1:33:45 GMT
"It makes me wonder about where exactly someone like Curt Cobain had his Dionynus: (anyone who knows it give me a personal message- I think the birth information somewhere out there but I avoid the whole - its far too tragic) (I think there was a story in Dell Horoscope some time ago as well)." I think this is the definitive site for anyone famous or infamous  and you can subscribe to their newsletter. www.astrodatabank.com and here is Kurt's chart www.astrodatabank.com/NM/CobainKurt.htm |
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Post by Amoroso on Apr 14, 2005 17:30:39 GMT
Thanks, LeYel, for the post. I am sure Svenskasfinx may beat me to Cobain's chart, but I see why she asked the question.
Svenskasfinx, I just spent about ten minutes looking (again) and the charts you posted, and while some things are coming to me (slowly, I might add) I began to wonder, which of these relationships came first in your life?
It seems that shouldn't make much difference in anything I pick up on, but I do think it will.
I am frustrated with the lack of words to explain why, even though both charts look intensely connected, the first synastry chart looks like it contains energies extremely intense that are difficult to express--like a Sappho-Deluxe-Longing sort of relationship on steroids. It is like the difference between synastry charts with my husband and C.
And that's why I asked which relationship came first. I think that will inform whatever I am able to express verbally.
Your babbling friend,
Amoroso
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Post by svenskasfinx on Apr 14, 2005 19:39:44 GMT
Ok I don't know if this should be one or two posts! I want to thank you LeYeL for that information, which then leads me to more information which is unrelated and yet, becomes connnected. I have to show my first scratching of the surface with this: Kurt Cobain's Chart below-- Note the Placement of Dionysus... Courtney Love's Chart: Note the Placement of Dionysus... (Baccus conjunct the MC not shown here though) Their synastry... I will show on an Eros conjunct Psyche thread... when I get to it. Note the close conjunction of Eros and Psyche, but what is not shown here is also a mutual amount of Sappho! I had no idea...(remember as someone said, "soul mates often kill each other.."? I get that impression here.) -------------------------------------------------- Now Amoroso.. Thank you for having a thought about these charts.. funny thing is YES I have KNOWN OF and actually MET this person before I ever met my husband - Funny thing was I think I fell in love with him (a kind of idolized rock star crush thing) when I was only 14!!! Now that I have really come to know him, I'd say he was a branch off of the family tree of my soul. I can say, right now, there is a sort of connectedness and yes a longing. Odd that. But being in the same house with my husband, can also give me that same feeling..  .. Thanks both of you.. sfinxen |
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Post by Mira on Apr 17, 2005 4:55:28 GMT
hi, everybody!
what about his Dionysos conjunct my Asc.,Nep.,Eros conjunction in Scorpio and my Dionysos conj. his Asc., Pluto conj. in Virgo?
Would that be part of the reason for this relationship to be obsessiv, destructiv, so full of pain and love and passion?
Impossible to handle, impossible to let go!
Mira
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Post by svenskasfinx on Apr 17, 2005 15:01:04 GMT
hi, everybody! what about his Dionysos conjunct my Asc.,Nep.,Eros conjunction in Scorpio and my Dionysos conj. his Asc., Pluto conj. in Virgo? Would that be part of the reason for this relationship to be obsessiv, destructiv, so full of pain and love and passion? Impossible to handle, impossible to let go! Mira Hello Mira! I don't feel that Dionysus is always an obsessive/destructive, full of pain kind of love thing.. and passion is Eros's world definately, but I feel that with Dionysus, you do tend to get a need to sacrifce something.. something for whatever the contact that it makes. Sacrifices are both good and bad, as well as the "reserection" of old passions. Like the Christ figure, Dionysus is killed and then reserected... we must remember that... and though we think about what we do to have gotten there to that point, we must also remember that its a symbol of letting go of something else... for the sake of the divine. But please, everyone, if we start off thinking that things by nature are difficult, then we get caught up in the trap of expecting the difficult or perceiving the blessings in our lives as "difficult" and eventually we curse the things that bring us our gifts... for what is joy without sorrow? How would we know the difference if we didn't have both "dark and light" and the contrasts between the pleasures and pains of the heart? I'm certain that others can comment here! Take care, svenskasfinx |
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Post by Amoroso on May 2, 2005 1:19:29 GMT
Hi Svenskasfinx,
I just have one main insight into the first synastry chart so far. His Dionysus conjunct your MC in Pisces must stimulate and/or heal both your inner and outer identity (self-concept as a person and as an artist) because it is all trined to that VERY energetic first house stellum of yours. That same conjunction must both motivate his day-to-day living as well as his artistry quite a bit because it falls in his 6th house and is inconjunct to his Moon/Sappho. And since he is a poet, that probably means a great deal to him.
That conjunction sets off a whole bunch of aspects between you two so it does seem important. Table legs!
I will look at this on and off--I am very interested in this asteroid and what it might mean. I have a feeling these small bodies are actually more influencial than we think-especailly the ones that resonate personally.
Blessings,
Amoroso
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Post by svenskasfinx on May 2, 2005 21:34:54 GMT
Hi Svenskasfinx, I just have one main insight into the first synastry chart so far. His Dionysus conjunct your MC in Pisces must stimulate and/or heal both your inner and outer identity (self-concept as a person and as an artist) because it is all trined to that VERY energetic first house stellum of yours. That same conjunction must both motivate his day-to-day living as well as his artistry quite a bit because it falls in his 6th house and is inconjunct to his Moon/Sappho. And since he is a poet, that probably means a great deal to him. That conjunction sets off a whole bunch of aspects between you two so it does seem important. Table legs! I will look at this on and off--I am very interested in this asteroid and what it might mean. I have a feeling these small bodies are actually more influencial than we think-especailly the ones that resonate personally. Blessings, Amoroso Yes, I get that bit as well.... Sorry so late, as I have stated to someone, my time difference coupled with being away for a day and a half equals a gap of about 3 days for most of you. And yes, its true that "small" asteroids resonate such powerful personal experiences... Now, I don't know how to put down in words exactly, but it was nice in a way to know he was actually clearning his schedual to see me.. (needless to say I am flattered!) You echo some of the idea given by the 6th house of the composite chart, I guess (remember Eros and Psyche conjunct in the 6th house) and naturally because of the two of us having each our Sappho in the 5th conjunct Baccaus (these both making contact by trine due to nearly the same degree in an air sign) naturally making the composite really Sappho/Baccaus in the 5th oriented.. Perhaps you are correct..I know now one thing since the Eros/Psyche opposition- (both of us had major Natal Eros connections to the transit) If I ask, he will tell me..but I have to ask, and I'm usually not that shy, but in this case, yes, because its like getting a precious gift I don't know if I have the right to have. I think that when I compare my husband's chart with his though, there is also a connection, a strong one..it almost looks like a "romantic" connection, with Venus conjunct Mercury/Sun/Eros and Psyche! When you point out this Dionysus/MC conjunct as an aspect to first house, I have to remember the person in question has 35 Leukothea at 4°18’48" Pisces conjunct Dionysus..(also conjunct my MC) so I feel yes, you hit upon something about the nature of fostering or nurturing or healing that side of me.. at a benifit to himself perhaps (I added that from some of the ideas you delved into). Sorry so scattered here, but I thought it would be a good idea to answer ASAP. I feel you are going somewhere, really digging to the heart of things..but the nature of Dionysus himself, is still a wonder.. There are in fact other myths in our own asteroid language about death and reserection.. Adonis for one, Persephone (who also ties into Adonis's myth) As well as Osiris. But it seems to be part of that theme, this dying and then "rebirth" in a way or "immortality" as shared by Leukothea as well as her son, (not Dionysus who was her foster child.) But these myths take on a more subtle symbol, because in every part of our own mortal lives, we find ourselves at a point where we transform and must "say good bye" to our "old selves". adding a few words to that, as I am watching my son grow, I have to learn to "say goodbye" to the content infant he was, and realize although he's only 4 now, he's more like a groaning teenager sometimes.. and all I can imagine is how he's going to be in the future, when girls call us day and night, and how I will worry when he doesn't come home on time... thank you for the amount of work you have done so far.. I feel you are going somewhere, and in the end it will help you to understand that Dionysus relationship.. Not to mention help me figure out this layer upon layer of mythological relationships.. take care, and best wishes, Svenskasfinx |
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Post by svenskasfinx on Jul 2, 2005 7:15:15 GMT
Hi Svenskasfinx, I just have one main insight into the first synastry chart so far. His Dionysus conjunct your MC in Pisces must stimulate and/or heal both your inner and outer identity (self-concept as a person and as an artist) because it is all trined to that VERY energetic first house stellum of yours. That same conjunction must both motivate his day-to-day living as well as his artistry quite a bit because it falls in his 6th house and is inconjunct to his Moon/Sappho. And since he is a poet, that probably means a great deal to him. That conjunction sets off a whole bunch of aspects between you two so it does seem important. Table legs! I will look at this on and off--I am very interested in this asteroid and what it might mean. I have a feeling these small bodies are actually more influencial than we think-especailly the ones that resonate personally. Blessings, Amoroso I got another flash from this, considering that I'm talking of this same person, and the situation that is the follow up of the real meeting and the fact he set time aside to meet up with me... It seems when I think about it, his 6th house with Dionysis and Lukathia is also conjunct Dali - My MC here only says to me I am or he is a daily reminder or something that happens to be on the day to day. With My MC in his 6th house it can go both ways.. He sees my "profession" daily and relates to it personally via Dionysis/Lukathia/Dali...in the 6th (daily domestic situations or rutine habits or even health) The Kurt Coban thing is also interesting because this person's band tured with Nirvana in Europe just previous to all the "attempted suicide scandle". Kurt has his Sun exactly conjunct that point, so I get the perspective of this Dionysis thing coming up. At this moment I sort of understand the light hearted banter about "suicide" and "death" in the conversations which took place. (kind of surreal and funny too) Finally my Kafka is conjuct my MC but ALSO the asteroid "Shakespere" (something I felt kind of odd about -- am I the "Shakespere" of performance art? At the moment I had trouble within my marriage situation though I thought back upon my dreams....one of which was about seeing my friend at a party and he came up to me and said "don't you always dream about giving me a hug?" and I said "yes" and he hugged me and changed into a little child.. and then ran away naked into a field full of flowers.. I thought to myself it maybe at the time his "death" but then when I had the accusations and arguments flying, thinking back, it was possible it could be mine..(not that this symbol was anything to do with "death" of the body but more freedom of the soul) Ok now that I've sorted this out.. kind of and that things seem to be ok... I'm going. thanks Amoroso for the work you have done here, it helps both you and I to learn different things.. I have certainly learned something.. Take care svenskasfinx |
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Post by Amoroso on Jul 2, 2005 14:36:57 GMT
Dear Svenskasfinx,
It is so amazing that you just added your thoughts to this thread, because I recently found something written by Liz Greene in her book, "The Astrology of Fate" which I was going to post here.
(I am so excited about all the horary threads and learning more about horary that I HAVE to find some time this weekend to spend with this forum!!!)
Anyway, in Greene's discussion of Pisces, she says
"If I must choose a single mythic figure (she does not like the use of Neptune to symbolize Pisces and writes compellingly about her reasons) who embodies what I understand to be the curious androgynous complexity of Pisces. I would look to the god Dionysos--whom Walter Otto in his study of the deity believes to be an image of 'creative madness,' and who Kerenyi, in his study calls 'the irrational ground of the world.' In the birth, life and attributes of Dionysos we shall find a vivid description of the 'daimon' who presides over Pisces, and spans the spiritually sublime world of his father Zeus (Jupiter as co-ruler of Pisces) and the mad, ecstatic depths of the Mother."
This really resonated with me, largely because I resonate to the Christian myth and it's connection to "fishers of men," and the history of the symbol of the fishes has Dionysian overtones, full of suffering, Eros, pain and ecstasy. So look to the Neptunian themes of all involved and add that to the soup.
Wow, your connection to Kurt Cobain is amazing ( talk about a mythic Christ-figure) and I do hope to experience YOUR art some day. We all need to meet at Kim's and have a HUGE Arts' fest some day.
The Lebonese poet Kahlil Gibran wrote:
"Once every hundred years Jesus of Nazareth meets Jesus of the Christian in a garden among the hills of Lebanon. And they talk long; and each time Jesus of Nazareth goes away saying to Jesus of the Christian, "My friend, I fear we shall never, never agree."
More to think about, just what we all need....
Blessings,
Amoroso
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Post by Kim Falconer on Jul 2, 2005 21:23:06 GMT
This is a great thread!
Dionysus is like a "dark" Christ...he redeems through the senses (as opposed to the spirit). It's interesting to realise that the women surrounding him were called "maenads" the root word being "mania". In the classical sense, it did not mean "clinical madness" but instead was the word for "passionate outpouring".
Passionate outpouring.
Dionysus brand of "mania", his passion, his bliss, his suffering and his creative transformation is all part of the "necessary madness" that every artist knows...
These are really good insights, Svenskasfinx and Amoroso. Thank you!
Kim
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Post by moggym on Jul 20, 2005 12:13:06 GMT
Hi All,
Long time, no talk. Sorry, have been very busy with work commitments.
Have looked at this thread and found myself fascinated with it. The expression of joy is one of the highest of human emotions.
This thread reminds me of a book that I read many years ago. I have since reread this book and feel that many people interested in Dionysus might appreciate this book.
The book is called: Ecstasy, Understanding the Psychology of Joy by Robert A. Johnson.
In this book he makes lots of references to Dionysus as being the God (source) of Ecstasy or Joy.
Great reading if you have an interest in this topic.
Hope you are all well
Moggym
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Post by Kim Falconer on Jul 20, 2005 22:24:15 GMT
Thanks for that title, Moggym. Robert A. Johnson is a wonderful writer with a strong Jungian background. I loved his book "He" and the companion "She"...wonderful mythologies.
Most of his extensive works are available on amozon.com
Kim
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Post by Amoroso on Jul 20, 2005 22:32:19 GMT
Hi Moggym,
Looks like a "trip to Amazon" is in order! Thanks for the tip.
Amoroso
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Post by jamma on Jan 31, 2006 6:58:30 GMT
Dear All,
I wanted some info on Dionysus and was thrilled to find this thread (so many different strands in the thread, too!) ...
My initial question was whether anyone here has Eros conjunct Dionysus and if so what has been the experience of that?
But how interesting to find Dionysus posited as an alternate ruler of Pisces ... must check out that Johnson book!
And about a year ago (before I arrived here at Asteroid Central), I was looking into myth for "answers," wondering if my husband's death had been caused, indirectly, by an imbalance between Apollo and Dionysus in his life (now I must check his chart -- I'd forgotten this dichotomy issue until just now) ...
So much MORE to think about ... this forum is richer than the Library at Alexandria was purported to be!
Grateful to be here,
Jamma
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Post by tom on Mar 7, 2006 22:28:12 GMT
first of all, i landed here the other day working on eros in my chart...and have been blown away by everything here. i tend to work with nontraditional bodies when they start calling out to me, so to speak (i use lucifer and one called arjunsuri), and now my progressed moon is on my eros...
anyway:
my dionysus is on my south node, 19 cancer in the 10th. not sure what to make of this, though i probably need to get into the mythology more.
meaning that i tend to present as stodgy and very serious, and as far as i'm concerned there's a lot of work to do and holy crap can we just get on with making progress and so on (saturn in the 9th, jupiter in capricorn also).
i'm an evolutionary astrologer, and that paradigm treats the south node as holding our expectations and indicates our skills...which is why this isn't making sense today to me. i'll look up more on dionysus, but am curious if any of you have comments on the above.
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