declinations in synastry

[chrissymgreen]

dear all,

i have a question that is really bugging me, and i find myself even more confused after reading the following section on declinations, parallels and contraparallels on this page:

groups.msn.com/HOROSCOPESCHAT/aspects3.msnw

i found these interesting connections between the declinations of my virgo friend and i:

my pisces sun - 0° S<br>his virgo sun - 0° N<br>his virgo NN - 1° N<br>his virgo eros 0° S<br>his aries amor 0° S<br>
my aries mercury - 4° N<br>my libra uranus - 4° S<br>his virgo mercury - 4° N<br>
my aqua venus - 15° S<br>his scorpio uranus - 15° S<br>
um, please help! i just don't understand how to classify these 'aspects'.

for instance, his sun and my sun at 0° declination, his N and mine S makes them...contraparallel? what about his mercury and my mercury being at 4° N declination...does that mean they're parallel? i'm just so confused!

and for the record, is a contraparallel equivalent to an opposition and a parallel to a conjunction?

thanks, guys.


sincerely,
chrissy

[svenskasfinx]

Dear Crissymgreen,

I totally understand that confusion; I felt that about 20 years ago when I saw that planets that were no where near each other were also acting as though in conjunction due to the declinations.

.. I still don't exactly know how to explain it, but basicly you are correct:

The parallel acts as an equal to a conjunction, supposedly and a counter parallel as an opposition...

It amazes me to think that planets that are all in conjunction with each other can also be parallel, and some that are in odd aspect to each other can actually be joined by a parellel too!

I found the idea kind of strange but found a good artical in Dell Horoscope about 10 years ago explaining it much clearer to me.

I don't have it with me now, (things like that seldom make long journeys out of the country, especially when people want to know what's so important about a lot of mouldy magazines )

Maybe Kim or someone else will have some links that will clearify this idea.

Take care,

svenskasfinx

[Kim Falconer]

Yes, declinations are important though orbs, in this case, must be less than 1 degree.

Same declinations (N/N or S/S) are read as conjunctions.

Opposite declination (N/S) are read as, you guessed it, oppositions.

I can elaborate on this, though I am out of time today. I’ll come back to it this week.

It’s a great question!

Warmly,
Kim

[chrissymgreen]

well, thanks, kim! i sure do appreciate your help.

i knew about parallel/contraparallel aspects but i have not been considering them. i thought i knew what they were, but after reading that whole section on MSN's horoscopeschat web page, i became thoroughly confused (thinking too hard about it, i guess)!

so after dropping the aspects that differ by a whole degree:
my sun 0° S contraparallel his sun 0° N<br>my sun 0° S parallel his eros 0° S<br>my sun 0° S parallel his amor 0° S<br>my mercury 4° N parallel his mercury 4° N<br>my mercury 4° N parallel his cupid 4° N<br>my venus 15° S parallel his uranus 15° S<br>my mars 23° S parallel his vesta 23° S<br>my jupiter 20° S parallel his venus 20° S<br>my uranus 4° S contraparallel his mercury 4° N<br>
and oh goodness, there's more, but i'll stop here. i like listing it out so i can see what's what.

it's so interesting, though, when i look at my own chart...what pops out:

sun 0° S contraparallel lilith 0° N<br>sun 0° S parallel sappho 0° S<br>venus 15° S contraparallel saturn 15° N<br>venus 15° S contraparallel pluto 15° N<br>
the venus-saturn and the venus-pluto contraparallels (or oppositions) make total sense to me in my own chart.

has anyone else looked for declination connections in their own charts or in synastry? did you find anything surprising?

sincerely,
chrissy

[Kim Falconer]

Charles Jayne said, “There are three ways in which planets in a horoscope are related to each other. This is vitally important since such relationships are the major source of the meaning of such a chart. They are related by aspects, .., by planetary pictures, ... and by parallels of declination.”<br>
When it comes to declinations, you tend to get more cross aspects in synastry than by zodiac aspect. This is because there are 360 degrees of the Zodiac yet the declination usually goes up to 24 degrees North and South of the celestial equator. (the sun never exceeds 23:27:05 or the tilt of the earths axis) There are extremes declination, but when a planet shows up further away than 23.27’5, it is termed “out of bounds” -- a less common occurrence.

You can see there are generally more chances for the major planets to match up by declination than by aspect, except that the orb is <1 degree and we only use parallel (conjunct) and contra-parallel (opposition) .
For a quick review on the ‘anatomy and physiology” of declinations, click here.

karma.astrology.com/declinations.html?arrivalSA=1&cobrandRef=0&arrival_freqCap=1&pba=adid=12471666

and also here:

www.solsticepoint.com/1declination.htm

Usually planets connected by declination AUGMENT natal Zodiac aspects between them, but not always. Sometimes they work all on their own, as Jayne said!

For example, my natal Venus and Mercury are 13 degrees apart and in different signs. I do no consider them conjunct. They are almost exactly conjunct by declination, however, and it really fits. I am (apparently) very seductive in speech/and flirty too, given half a chance—both Venus/Mercury traits and NOT something you would expect in a Venus in Cancer! No way.

In synastry, many examples come to mind. There is a friend who shares no Mercury aspects with me at all, yet when we are together it’s Yak Yak Yak and we DO understand what we are saying to each other, often before we even get it out…there are never any pauses or gaps (or room for others when we are together)! I just looked up our declinations (because I always knew we had no Mercury-Mercury aspects and thought it odd how well we communicated). Sure enough, we have a Mercury/Jupiter/Neptune/Mars link up by declination.

These are orbs of less than one degree.

Declinations are a very useful tool.
Other examples out there?

Warmly,
Kim

[BodaciousBabe]

How, on earth, (no pun intended...) does one calculate declinations?

Bodaciousbabe

[Kim Falconer]

Dear BB,

“In Declination, the rise and fall of the planets are measured against the Celestial Equator, a spatial projection of the equator that we use to divide the Earth. The location of planets in their orbit is described as being north or south of the Celestial Equator.”<br>
So, to calculate declinations, you have to have an astrophysics for a boyfriend, or be one yourself, OR you do what I do, you have a computer program that offers chart options which include the declinations.

I know of no other way.

Let me just see if Astrodeinst will do the trick. I am pretty sure they would.

YEP. Just create a chart at ASTRODEINST www.astro.com under their “free charts”. I use the extended chart selection so I can add in Eros, Psyche etc. Then, once the chart is calculated, click on the upper RIGHT option that says “Click to get the additional tables”.

Then, bingo, you have a Natal Data Sheet including a list (to the far righ of the planet) of declinations. N for north latitudes and S for south. It's in Actobat Reader as a .pdf file.

Let me know if this doesn’t make sense or work for you.

Kim

[chrissymgreen]

dear kim,

i hope you'll excuse me, but i have a quick question about declination aspects - what if, say:

•my venus is square my partner's uranus by 5° but by declination they are parallel (conjunct)?
•his AC is semisquare my pluto by 1°, but by declination they are contraparallel (opposite)?
•his eros is opposite my sun by 6° but by declination they are parallel (conjunct)?

(the orb i used for determining the declination aspects was less than a degree, like you said.)

which aspect takes precedence? or do both play a part?

by the way, i believe you mentioned above that with a certain friend you have no actual aspect between your mercurys, but by declination they are conjunct (parallel) and when you get together it's yak yak yak, and i wanted to mention that i share the exact same situation with my partner and i agree with you! my mercury is aries and his is virgo, and they are 161° apart, which is a 1° quadrinovile i believe, but i don't pay that any mind - i think our mercurys act much more like they are conjunct. this had puzzled me before but now i understand better.


thanks so much!



sincerely,
chrissy

[Kim Falconer]

When a sysnastry contact has both aspect and declination contact, it DOUBLES the connection. You would read the aspect, and also the parallel or contra-parallel too. It would work (like the example of the Mercury contact you mentioned that has an “obscure” aspect connection yet it “lit up” by the contact by declination).

The same thing happens with transits and their declinations. It INCRESES the energy and our receptivity to it. (remember, in synastry, people are like permanent transits).

So your Venus/Uranus contact with your partner is increased by the declination contact. You can’t ignore the dynamic. It is part of your being together. Sometimes it will seem more like the square and sometimes more like the conjunction. Always, it will be intense, surprising, exhilarating, disruptive!!!

Does this make sense?

Warmly,
Kim

[chrissymgreen]

wow, that makes a lot of sense, kim. i can see it, especially with our suns. his sun is virgo 29° and mine is pisces 28°, so we are 1° opposite. by declination, our suns are also contraparallel by half a degree. so THAT'S why this opposition is so intensely felt!

thank you!


sincerely,
chrissy

[chrissymgreen]

by the way, you mentioned something previously in this thread about out of bounds planets. my moon (which is sag 27° in the 3rd house) actually happens to be out of bounds i think - its declination is 27°42'37" S.

could someone maybe describe briefly what 'out of bounds' means? id heard the term before but had no idea what it meant.

thanks in advance!


sincerely,
chrissy

[Kim Falconer]

Hello Chrissy,

Good question on the Out-of-Bounds planets. These are planets with a declination greater than 23 degrees 27’. The Sun can never exceed this degree, due to the tilt of the earth’s axis.

Out-of-Bounds simply means outside of the boundary of the ecliptic, or the path of the earth’s orbit around the sun. Remember, the Sun stays within 23 degrees 27’ North of the equator and 23 degrees 27’ south of the equator.

The personal planets (and asteroids) can be considered when delineating “out-of-bounds. The outer planets say “out” for longer periods and become more generational markers than personal.

What does it mean to have a planet beyond the ecliptic by declination?

Here is a link to an article by Pamela Welch that goes into depth:

www.mandala.be/declination/pamela.htm

It is felt that Out-of-Bounds planets tend to express “beyond the normal parameters”. They become more extreme in their energy, more “out there”.

“Persons born with the Moon out of bounds will show an intense need for personal freedom and an aversion to limitations and boundaries. Examples of persons with the moon out of bounds include Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson, Catherine the Great, Oprah Winfrey, Al Gore, Theodore Roosevelt, Lucille Bal and Amelia Earheart.”<br>http://www.astroscapes.com/out-of-bounds_planets.htm

Your Moon is already in the sign of the “boundary breaker” Sagittarius and far out of bounds by declination. I would be most interested to hear how you feel this has effected your early education (3rd house) and sense of meaning and purpose in life. Particularly, it says something about the experience of mother.

After you have studied the nature of the “out-of-bounds” perhaps you could comment on its influence in your life.

Thank you for bringing this up!

Kim

[svenskasfinx]

Hej Kim!

Thanks for those articals! This finally explains something else...my natal Mars 24° 4’39" N and Venus 23°33’47" N are "out of bounds"
The sun is at 23° 6’ 5" N

Although I know its more common that asteroids go out of bounds my Eros is at 23°46’35" S making an "out of bounds" making a counter parallel aspect to those other "out of bounds" planets...

It really does seem to talk about the strange behaviour of my love life..

My husband's Moon in Cancer is 26°45’ 4" N in the first house conjunct a Jupiter in Cancer 23°23’ 8" N, not out of bounds. Still though, Jupiter is a good one for some extremes.

These articals are very very interesting!

Thanks very much for this information, it refreshes my memory.

Svenskasfinx

[chrissymgreen]

dear kim et al,

wow, that is so interesting! i actually share a few things in common with einstein astrologically: he has a pisces sun, and i believe his sun was a singleton like mine (only water sign); he has a sagittarian out of bounds moon; he has mercury in aries; and his mars is in capricorn.

i'm interested in how my out of bounds moon has affected me - i don't know that my early education was atypical...i did have severe problems with dyslexia, and had to take special classes. then by the time i hit the 4th grade i was placed in advanced classes, and at 17 i graduated at the top of my class (number 13 actually). education has always been important to me, so i went on to college right after high school, on a variety of scholarships (both art and academic). i graduated after 5 years with 2 degrees, one in art (painting and photography) and one in math.

when i was very young, around the age of 6 or 7, i remember wanting to be a nun, because i thought nuns just did missionary work. i pictured myself in africa or some other 3rd world country, feeding the hungry and taking care of the sick. this didnt last long, however. even as i had dreams of being a nun, i loved drawing and being creative, so the desire to be an artist in some capacity took over quickly, and this is what i remember most wanting to be as a child. i pestered my dad when i was 12 to let me take an oil painting class as a summer thing with all these adults, and i fell in love with the smell of paint and turpentine and linseed oil.

now i work as a graphic designer for a college in the mid-cities (halfway between dallas and fort worth), and i love it. i cannot picture working as a designer in any other capacity - i found my niche, i love working for an educational institution.

the art i make now is much more complicated than the paintings i made when i was 11 or 12. you can see a few jpgs here:
www.brothersamateur.org/proto/art/

i don't know about my experience with my mother...my mother is a gentle, loving sort (a cancer), and i guess our relationship is a good one, we get along quite nicely, but i have never been close to her intellectually. i think this is my fault. i dont know that i ever really tried with her, to talk about things that interest me (art theory, foreign film, world music, ethnic food, linear equations, physics, literature).

the freedom loving aspect to an out of bounds moon is definitely felt by me. i cant stand restrictions or limitations or even expectations. i just want to be left alone to 'do my thing' quite a bit.

i cant thank you enough kim, this was very informative!



sincerely,
chrissy

[Kim Falconer]

HI Chrissy,

Thanks for the in-depth delineation of your Out-of-Bounds Moon! And the link to your work! I found it fascinating…it really draws you in …it tells a whole tale, as it were…wonderful!

The comments on how this has influenced you life is very insightful.

Thanks again,
Kim