1685 Toro.. some observations...

[svenskasfinx]

Hello all,

I found that actually a very stongly placed asteroid in not only my chart, but in so many I associate with.

I mentioned I have it at 12 degrees 50 Virgo in the fourth house conjunct my Moon at 12 degrees 35 sextile Venus and Aprodite in Cancer. Not only that but Quintile Neptune in Scorpio and conjunct Medea also in Virgo at 13 degrees or so..(I can't remember)

Its kind of weird, that my husband has Toro in 29 degrees 48, in Taurus conjunction with his Sun at 1 degree 34 Gemini.

(It reminds me of that Sun/Mnemosyne thing of Pete Shelley's and my Moon/Mnemosyne thing..)

A girl who I know has been bullied has a Sun/Toro conjunction in Libra (not my bully but my friend)

and our mutual friend has a conjunction of Mars/Toro in Gemini by less than one degree also...

Is this a bully thing or those of us who have been bullied? Another thing, my brother, the only one I know who was a bully, has SATURN/TORO in conjunction in Cancer.. (I thought it was the 12th house but my mother has been going on about how we got the time wrong)

Any other observations?

My son has Toro in Piscies..at 9 degrees in the 8th house squared Jupiter..in Gemini in the 11th house. Because he's little now, does it mean that this could be a problem with friends in the future?

Now you got me started! Are you happy ScorpyMoon?



www.geocities.com/SoHo/7969/toro.htm

here is the link with more information I edited it because I rushed, now it should be fixed...

Take care all, and thanks ahead for any observations of this asteroid.'

svenskasfinx

[svenskasfinx]

Dear ScorpyMoon!

That was so brilliant! Thank you for the information, and its true, there was an emotionally brutal element in my early childhood but nevermind... you know most of it.. I suppose.

And yes I have to say if its about the body and the muscles, we have them in this house, including my son. I confess that I have a strong muscular body, but I feel it was that Mars in the first house.. that gave me that, and the discovery of Pan in conjunction with Mars, Sun, Venus, and Aphrodite.. only made me feel that it was something connected to those..

The Moon/Pluto combination I have, and tossing that in with Toro makes sense there too.

I do tend to be or seem placid, but I'm one of those people who can be assertive and tenacious at the most unexpected of times.

Nice work here!

Thanks so very much,

Svenskasfinx

[Kim Falconer]

This is some wonderful work with Toro.

My natal Toro is conjunct my Neptune. I have no personal objectivity what so ever . It's all a fog and blur!

It is in my 3rd house though, and I was bullied by my brother, especially at school... Interesting...

Thanks for this thread.
:DKim

[chrissymgreen]

thank you guys for this thread. i'd looked at toro before but hadn't given it a whole lot of thought.

my natal toro is in my 7th house at 1° taurus. it is conjunct my vertex at 2° taurus. this makes so much sense to me! i am attracted to men who have a forceful, venusian nature. i have aries on the 7th house cusp, so toro in the 7th just emphasizes that attraction i have to men who are assertive and know what they want. i also think that with toro in the 7th, when someone comes along and stimulates either my asc/desc axis or my vertex/antivertex axis (especially the latter), i get more assertive, if that makes any sense.

fascinating!

sincerely,
chrissy

[Kim Falconer]

This is such a good contrast to my Toro. When someone comes along and activates mine, it also awakens King Neptune. I get all soft and unfocused—dreamy and imaginative. It may (or may not) evoke some kind of creative response or urge for union, but if it does, it’s so fanciful it can make no statement in concrete reality.

If Toro is boundless strength and power—perhaps it infuses my imagination with such potency. This is in the 3rd house…I must write more fiction!

Kim

[svenskasfinx]

ScorpyMoon!

You CAN take credit for thinking about these things..by applying what you have learned.. which you do very very well here!

I am so impressed.. but that's me! I was thinking about the whole domestic thing. And that Neptune Toro thing as well with Kim.--

I was just bullied everywhere..school, home, even on the internet!! yeah, I pretty much don't care anymore and push back but I don't do it without style.. but I caught myself only once, emotionally tourment someone for lying to me.

Aside from that I just deal with most things in a placid sort of way...until I get hurt or stepped on.

I do tend to cry alot when I don't get my way!



take care all,

svenskasfinx

[aquariusrising2]

Hi All:

I love this thread it is very informative! You all have shared some really fascinating insights about Toro. This is an asteroid I didn't even know existed, but seems to be pretty darn relevant!

ScorpyMoon, thanks for the great interpretation! You are dead on about my soon to be ex. Lots of psychological bullying and very critical (Toro is in his 3rd house conjunct Jup/Sat and forming a T-square with my merc and moon/mars conjunction. I can do very little right ) And I do hold much aggression in my body. Toro is also conjunct my vertex. The powerful/controlling type men are usually attracted to me (and unfortunately me to them ) and it is always tranformational!! I think that draconic moon craves the intensity Thanks for taking the time to look into it You are much better at this than you give yourself credit for!!

Svenkas and ScorpyMoon, You guys have touched on some really poignant experiences related to this asteroid. Especially involving your youths. I wish you much light and love in your lives now.

Anyhow, thanks for all the great information!

A.R.

[Kim Falconer]

I agree, this is great work with Toro.

I just re-read Demetra George on the topic. Of note:

Astrologically, Toro symbolizes the intermediary in the octave progression between Mars and Pluto, transforming the raw, instinctual desires of Mars into the controlled, focussed and penetrating power of Pluto. Toro also describes how we handle the onslaught of violent or negative influences …

She goes on to say that (I’m paraphrasing now) Toro can be felt as brute force or ruthless aggression. It can also be a kind of “aggressive mastery” like martial arts, kickboxing, and the ability to take aggressive influences and transmute them into something more creative.

She really focuses on Toro being a source of Power and strength if we only tap into it.

I am thinking about that Neptune/Toro of mine…my first inclination when confronted with violence is to flee, escape…disappear. When I fight back, as in a martial arts class or a personal confrontation—verbal or psychic or physical—I can tap this massive energy…a charging bull not unlike the deities of Ancient Crete. It is like it is not me. It’s incredible potent.

But accessing that energy is only a recent thing. Growing up, with my sibling, I WAS supper sensitive to the bullying and always sought to run and hide.

Interesting stuff.

Kim

[endupgrrl]

Hello,

I have Toro in Taurus at 28'08 Degrees in my 9th house. It conjuncts on MC (which is at 1'45 Gem)and it also conjuncts my Saturn which is at 21'11 Taurus. What does that mean?

Thanks KIM

[Kim Falconer]

Hello Endupgrrl,

Welcome to the forum.

Let’s look at Toro at the end of Taurus conjunct your MC in early Gemini.

I get the feeling that Toro there ADDS to your sense of social identity some of the qualities of Taurus, and of the BULL.

On its own, the Gemini MC might happily chop and change when it comes to “who you are in the world”. There could be the feeling of “jack of all trades” or a broad knowledge base that covers a wide range of career possibilities. You can’t pin Gemini down, and on the MC, it can be difficult to pin the career, mission or profession down. You need to multi-task in this area of life---5 things at once will do nicely!

Now, if you put Toro there within 3 degrees, you not only pull in the powerful and determined, and focused aspects of the bull, but also those qualities that belong to Taurus as well. It is like Gemini is scooting off to explore the next area of interest and Toro taps her on the shoulder and says, “hang on…we haven’t finished this yet!”<br>
Do you see how this might work?

Saturn is also widely conjunct your MC which adds to the sense of earthy quality and also makes your social identity, your career-mission-profession VERY important. This combination feels like intense ambition, a very powerful drive for public recognition along with all of Saturn’s fears of failure and vulnerability.

Your drive to achieve and be acknowledged for your achievements may battle with your desire to run away and hide (or flit off to the next curiosity).

This is not a judgment or a “bad” thing…this is the energy you encounter in that area of life. Over time, you will do different things with it.

At first, we tend to ignore where Saturn is…deny the importance. We may project our own need for public recognition and hard won achievement onto a partner….We say, “I’m not ambitious but boy HE is!” Then, as we mature, as we get through at least one Saturn return, we start to think, “Hang on, maybe I do have some ambition. Maybe instead of wanting him to attain his goals it’s really me who wants to be recognized.”<br>
Think of the MC as the area of life you encounter your social identity, the “who am I in the public eye” spot. Whatever signs, planets, or asteroids we find there is going to make this area of life more complex and describe the most authentic way you can “be”.

Gemini says be curious, discover, learn, teach, communicate.
Saturn says to do this to the greatest of your capacity…Saturn says to get it right!
Toro says to express your power, to turn opposition into your own strength.

This simplification can be expanded. Have a go at listing some more things that each of these symbols “says” and see how that fits with your own experience of the MC.

Let us know what you come up with.

Anyone else have comments here?

Thanks for your participation.

Blessings,
Kim

[Kim Gallagher]

Thank you KIM!!!

I have been studing astrology for 5 yrs now. And it never ceases to continue to amaze me.

Kim ;D

[ariesmoon]

Toro's just introduced himself to me via a remarkable synchronicity. I'd noticed it mentioned in another thread today and registered it but didn't look further. I then opened my post, and I get DVDs from an online rental service - I know what I've ordered but not when they're arriving. Today? Pedro Almodovar's "Matador" !!

Message there - I looked up Toro and he appears at 22 Libra. Very consistent with my hatred - deep fear - of any kind of violence, or infliction of pain. I even have to look away when I (or anyone else) has an injection. I can almost feel others' pain. Also consistent with my love of dancing - freestyle, not trained - but looking again I can see that using the energy available through Toro for dancing, which requires Libran balance and grace, would be immensely powerful for me. The idea of dancing classes has been flitting in and out of my brain for about the last week, so that's why!

Talking of things flitting - Draconic Toro is 13.11 Gemini - conjunct my natal ruling planet Mercury (at 13.37 Gemini) and conjunct today's transiting Mercury (at 13.05 Gemini - stationing before turning direct again!) So yet another insight I've been given during this extraordinary Mercury Rx period. And it came by post (Mercury/Gemini!) I love that.

The film is visceral, dark and, for me, very difficult. Very Plutonian, with its merging of sex and death. And I can see exactly why it's the one I needed to see - bringing me in touch in a detached way (I could have turned the DVD off, but I chose not to) with the kind of images I've avoided all my life. Pluto Rx - opposing my Cancer Sun but also my Venus/Mars midpoint at 0 Cancer (summer solstice!), so such a darkly sexual film was entirely in keeping with the planetary energies working on my chart at the moment. Funny thing is, I can't even remember ordering it!

Thank you Toro!

[ana]

I agree that Toro has to do with bullying tho I had not called it that before but I had identified right use of power side of it with people I know
I have Toro conj Saturn and Pan in 3rd in Cancer about 15degress
[Moon and Venus also in Cancer but at 1 and 4 degrees] When I was young I never communicated in class at school but would entertain my friends in the breaks with imitations and comedy so I guess that was the Pan and Toro coming out I was also bullied by a couple of teachers when little and my mother was a bit that way - kept me down As I got older I was still too quiet and did not assert myself until I started to do self dev courses and therapies in my forties Then to my immense surprise sometimes people found me too pushy verbally after years of being told to talk or talk up I was not aware of any change in my style except less fear So I had/have to find the balance I realised without the fear I had no boundaries as my boundaries had been made of fear not self respect
So I think Toro placements might show where we have to learn to be neither bully nor bullied but just be in our power
I have an ex who had Toro rising 4 Capricorn opp Mars in Cancer - he is a big tall very strong tho thin man But he has been subjected to bullying at work many times and I parted with him because he could be a bully in the home Twenty years later I still know him as we had a child - he still has not found the balance with this

[Kris]

Thanks svenskasfinx for starting this wonderful thread. The aggressive qualities exhibited/experienced by some people gets explained now.

Often he get bullied and over the time he had become a bull. I am wondered and worried about this boy who use to look very sweet and fun loving always has gradually become very aggressive. He is 18 now and is in the company of aggressive fellows who spend lavishly and look very rough (courtesy the projections shown in TV and films i believe). My son has Toro in 11th house Sco, exactly semi-square Cap Asc conjunct Sat, Nep. Toro has crossed over 10th house Pluto and thus possess the qualities of pluto the lord of 11th house as well. I find it extremely difficult to make him understand the consequences of bad company. Though very good in studies, he has become an eyesore for many people over the last one year.

My Toro is right on 4th cusp conjunct 6th house lord Jupiter (in 3rd) by 1 deg orb. I don't understand this. At home I always had to do lot of work and in the childhood I was always bullied if i refuse to do common work demanding equality.

I know a guy who is known as a bull loosing cool very easily and resort to offend others hurling aggressive statements. His Toro in 5th Sco conjunct Moon and vertex conjunct by 5 deg orb. He and his mom bully each other and are in bad terms for a long time. I find this man quite reasonable in his approach in general. It is surprising that his Toro closely conjunct my vertex (2 deg orb) but we are in good terms for a long time. I remember he bullied me in the initial days of our friendship but changed this tendency finding me very soft in my approach.

I asked my son as to why he had become like this. He said "I have been exploited. I am very cooperative and help others. In return I get a raw deal". 10th lord Pluto in 11th is explained very well but how to handle this unwarranted quality that bring losses. I counseled him repeatedly over time (alas Pluto) and find some change in him. Now I change my approach little considering Toro.

It seems Toro has very small but definite sphere of work - to be bull or to get bullied and the native is conscious of Toro actions.

Can anybody explain Toro Jup conjunct of mine on 4th cusp aries point Libra. I do a lot of reading and learning. I wrote about bad experiences in my official life a number of times. I wonder why I dont get recognition in spite of being very competitive in different fields. Perhaps the clients feel bullied as I talk and hence reject/ignore me out of discomfort.

Any other ideas folks

Love
Kris

[ariesmoon]

Kris, I'm still learning about Toro and I don't know if this will help but I've just bought Demetra George and Douglas Bloch's book on "Asteroid Goddesses", which Kim refers to in an earlier thread here. They have this (and more) to say on Toro which seems relevant to your chart with Toro angular on the IC, on an Aries point, and conjunct Jupiter:

"A prominent Toro indicates that the proper channelling of ones inner power will become a lifelong theme". On conjunctions to natal planets, they say it means "intensified strength and power for the themes associated with the contacted planet".

Libra is about grace and balance and about finding that in your life at the point where it sits in your chart - so at the IC, to me it's about your haven, where you feel most safe. And Jupiter is about learning and expansion. This seems a very powerful conjunction to me, at a powerful point of beginnings at an Aries point. So maybe this lifetime is about using the Toro power to assist your learning - Jupiter. And perhaps it's about learning to use your power in a gentle, loving and harmonious way that feels safe to you, if not necessarily to others.

Perhaps people see the power of Toro in you magnified and expanded by Jupiter, and feel the energy of the Aries point. To me it shows tremendous power both to fight for equality and justice. That often makes people feel uncomfortable! The world thrives on inequality and injustice - it shouldn't, but it does - and it's in some people's interests to keep it that way or to keep that view of the world in their heads. Because the conjunction is at the IC, such a vulnerable place in your chart, it may be that you feel unsettled by that energy. Your comment about equality and being bullied as a child is very relevant there.