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Post by aquariusrising2 on Mar 5, 2005 1:35:36 GMT
Hi Kim and All:
Kim mentioned depositors in another thread and as I have only a vague understanding of how the depositors really affect the chart I am hoping for some insight. For exapmle, I have 3 depositors, Aries, Saturn and Jupiter. What is it I should be looking at here. What is the significance of the depositor in the birth chart and how do we use it?
Thanks for any insight!
A.R.
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Post by Kim Falconer on Mar 6, 2005 6:22:50 GMT
This is a great question! Depositors are not used by all astrologers though I find them very insightful. They help pinpoint "what things boil down to" especially in the case of mutual receptions. They help us see just how important a house ruler might be too. First up, do we all know what a depositor is? DEFINITIOIN: A Depositor is a PLANET which rules the sign another planet (or point) is in. It becomes a kind of extra authority over the planet (or, house cusp, or angle) at that place of degree of the zodiac. (you can get very nitty and us rulers of decans or dwads but lets just stick with whole signs for now). It tells us something about the expression of that zodiac area and planets or points at it. It is the planet that disposes of the planet residing in its sign.[/i] For example, if you are a Capricorn Sun, your Sun is "deposited" by Saturn. If you are a Gemini Sun, it's Mercury. You get the idea. In your case (because I've got your chart in front of me now) The Gemini Sun is deposited by Mercury. Mercury in Cancer is deposited by the Moon, Moon in Aries is deposited by Mars and Mars in Aries--because it's in its own sign--is the Sun's final depositor. That whole path boils down to Mars. (Remember, signs are not depositors, ruling planets are.) Your Ascendant follows the same path to Mars. Asc. Ruler is Uranus in Leo, deposited by the Sun in Gemini and so on. All your other planets go to Mars as final depositor except for Jupiter, which is in its own sign, and Saturn, which is in Capricorn. (Your Ascendant could lead to Saturn as well because of the duel rulership--I just posted some lengthy comments on that in "Saturn doesn’t have to equal bad luck". Now, what does this mean.? I think everyone should read the excellent article by Scott Whitters--http://www.panplanet.com/library/dispositors.htm It offers good examples and explanations. I think of depositors as having more strength and "necessity" in the chart. Mars is clearly more important to you than it seems at first glance. It holds a kind of "key" to the expression of all the other personal planets. Honor Mars in your chart and life moves forward in a more authentic direction. Notice too what happens in your Draconic chart. Mars still is in its own sign (Scorpio now) and using traditional rulerships, everything in your Draco chart is deposited by Mars--making him the "final depositor". Does this make sense? Everybody take a moment to follow the path of the depositors in your natal chart. What do you find? Is there a "loop" involved with mutual reception (I have that with Moon in Aquarius and Uranus in Cancer). Those with several planets in their "own" signs will have multiple final depositors--underscoring the "potency" we are always taught about planets that fall in the sign of their rulership. One of the reasons is the path of the depositors. It always stops with a planet in its own sign. Comments? Warmly, Kim
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Post by svenskasfinx on Mar 6, 2005 7:54:28 GMT
Here are some examples of graphics using the depositors- I will show you mine, which is not so interesting and a few others which ARE interesting: Mine above My husband's depositers above Pete Shelley - he has more than one "mutual reception" in his chart via sign. As you can see there are various ways to use the idea of "Depositor". Thanks everyone.. and now I need to go read that link Kim posted. Svenskasfinx
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Post by Kim Falconer on Mar 6, 2005 22:58:56 GMT
Thanks Svenskasfinx. That is an interesting way to map depositors. I've never tried that on Astrodeinst. I like seeing the signs, but I want to have a look at your way. Where is that option? ScorpyMoon, Here is how your depositor trail works--you basically have it right except that your final depo is a mutual reception between Venus and Saturn. BOTH are EQUAL. EVERYTHING in your chart follows the rulership path down to Venus in Capricorn and Saturn in Taurus. Your final depositors are Venus and Saturn. See how this works? Not just Saturn, but Venus in equal sovereignty. ;)Kim
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Post by svenskasfinx on Mar 7, 2005 0:05:07 GMT
Ok everyone How To:
Go to :
Extended Chart Selection
You will see in red and blue text a list of chart groups like this: "Please select a group: Astrodienst special Pullen/Astrolog Astrodienst round"
then select from the three titles they have: Pullen/Astrolog when you click on this the text will become red.
Go to the drop menu options and look for:
sign/house dipositer graph
and select other options as you see fit..such as chart type and such.
Hope this was clear enough..
there are alot of options from the program that I down loaded over 7 years ago.. and they have some of these options on their sight... and that's why I know about it.
Enjoy all!
Svenskasfinx
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Post by aquariusrising2 on Mar 7, 2005 17:06:10 GMT
Thanks Kim for the reply! And thanks Svenskas for the info!
I need to go back now and see how Mars, Saturn and Jupiter all relate!
A.R.
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Post by Kim Falconer on Mar 7, 2005 22:54:41 GMT
Thanks everyone for the interest and contributions here. It's a great topic! And Svenskasfinx, thank you for the directions to the depositor graphs. Very clear instructions. I still like working it out by hand and seeing the signs though the graph is handy and I have printed out some already! Blessings, Kim
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Post by svenskasfinx on Mar 7, 2005 23:03:35 GMT
Thanks everyone for the interest and contributions here. It's a great topic! And Svenskasfinx, thank you for the directions to the depositor graphs. Very clear instructions. I still like working it out by hand and seeing the signs though the graph is handy and I have printed out some already! Blessings, Kim Hej Kim and everyone! I think these graphs work best as a supliment to the chart, as long as you are familar with the charts in question they work as a quick study. I figured most were familar with my chart and my husband's chart from some of the treads I started and from the Eros thread "Pete Shelley's" chart. But perhaps they should all be seen together? They were just examples, not to be taken on their own. I hope its benifical as a supliment for most of you.. Take care, svenskasfinx
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Post by Kim Falconer on Mar 8, 2005 7:47:27 GMT
I think it would be a good exercise for every to try some of the "depositor hierarchies" on the astrodienst site. (if one has time!!!) That way, you can look at your chart then look at the print out and get a good feel for where the "rulerships" resolve. Is it one planet" Several" a mutual reception? What emphasis doe you think it brings to your chart? How is it different in the draco system? the progression? Lots to explore here. : ) Kim
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Post by Amoroso on Mar 10, 2005 1:58:43 GMT
Someone please explain "mutual reception."
I used the Astrodienst program and confess that I do not quite understand the charts.
"Sign Depositer for hierarchy" was Mercury "House Dep. for hierarchy" went through Venus-Jupiter-Saturn and ended up with a black circle around Neptune.
Sign Depositer for wheel was Mercury House Deposter for wheel was Neptune.
If anyone could explain a bit about the sign and house depositers I would be grateful. And the difference between "hierarchy" and "wheel."
Blessings, Amoroso
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Post by Kim Falconer on Mar 10, 2005 22:42:32 GMT
Amoroso, Mutual reception occurs when one planet is in the sign of the other—you don’t have an example in your natal chart but Chico does. His Saturn is in Virgo (which is ruled by Mercury) and his Mercury is in Capricorn (which is ruled by Saturn). They are said to “receive” each other and in Horary, they actually can “change places” in the chart. I have Moon in Aquarius (ruled by Uranus) and Uranus in Cancer (ruled by the moon). You use traditional rulers as well—I have Mars in Capricorn (ruled by Saturn) and Saturn in Scorpio (traditionally ruled by Mars). See how mutual reception works? You may have this in your progressed chart, returns or even Draco. Have a look when you have time. As for the Astrodienst graphs—they are really best as a supplement for working out the FINAL depositor. Do it by had first. Your Sun is in Gemini,(ruled by Mercury) and Mercury is in Gemini—Stop. Mercury is the depositor of the Sun. I think if you do this with all your planets—Neptune in Libra goes to Venus in Cancer goes to Moon in Leo goes to Sun in Gemini goes to Mercury in Gemini—Stop, you will find that Mercury is you final depositor (hence circled in black in the “Sign” graph with EVERYTHING pointed towards it. (all roads lead to Rome and your Capital of the world is Mercury!) The House Depositor works like this—Mars is in the fourth-(4th is ruled by the Moon) Moon is in the 9th—just—ruled by Jupiter, Jupiter is in the 10th , ruled by Saturn (which connects to Venus etc) Neptune is the only planet in its “Home house”. We are using natural rulerships of the houses here (1st house Aries, 2nd Taurus etc.) The “Sign depositor Wheel” and “House depositor wheel” shows the same progression as the “depositor by sign” and depositor by wheel” just in a different way (actually a bit easier to follow. I suggest everyone work these out by hand and then print the graphs to have another visual on it. If you write in the signs in the graphs, it may be more instructional and easy to see the progressions. Does that help? Warmly, Kim
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Post by sielou on Mar 15, 2005 1:33:20 GMT
Thinking out loud. Aquarius sun> Uranus, Uranus in Libra> Venus, Venus in Capricorn> Saturn, Saturn in Gemini> Mercury, Mercury in Pisces> Neptune, Neptune in Sag> Jupiter, Jupiter in Aquarius> Uranus
Gemini Moon> Mercury, Mercury in Pisces> Neptune, Neptune in Sag> Jupiter, Jupiter in Aquarius> Uranus
Taurus Ascendant> Venus, Venus in Capricorn> Saturn, Saturn in Gemini> Mercury, Mercury in Pisces> Neptune, Neptune in Sag> Jupiter, Jupiter in Aquarius> Uranus.
Mars in Taurus> Venus, Venus in Capricorn> Saturn, Saturn in Gemini> Mercury, Mercury in Pisces> Neptune, Neptune in Sag> Jupiter, Jupiter in Aquarius> Uranus.
So my final dispositor is Uranus - but it is not in its own sign in Libra! which falls on my 7th house cusp in late Libra, decan in Gemini? dwad in Leo!
Scott Whitters 2001 wrote "The final dispositorship embodies a life theme and is one of the principal drivers in the chart." and "If the angles are the drumbeat that gives structure to our lives - whether waltz time, tango or rock and roll, the final dispositor is the bass line that sets the beat for the other planets to add to. It is the key in which the song is played."
Can anyone see if there is any other significant theme? Thankful for any comments/contribution as always =).
Hmm... And now I am wondering about this vs. singletons! But that is a new thread *I can´t find it mentioned anywhere else*.
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Post by Kim Falconer on Mar 15, 2005 22:11:48 GMT
Hi Sielou, You don't actually have a final depositor-- ---not everyone does. Some charts end in a final depositor which is ALWAYS a planet in the sign it rules. Some charts go into an "infinite loop". If the "loop" is between two planets (like Moon in Saturn and Saturn in Cancer) you have a mutual reception and both of these planets are important--both final depositors. Then there are those charts that have an infinite loop of 3 or more planets, like yours. You don't stop at Uranus because it is NOT in its own sign of Aquarius. You have to say, Ur in Libra VENUS in Capricorn, Saturn etc etc. You have one major infinite loop! Can you see this now? You don't stop until you get to an "end" which is always a planet in its own sign (or two planets in mutual reception). Does anyone else on the forum have an "infinite loop"? What do you think this might mean, given the "base line" metaphor of the final depositor? What is this music like? Thanks for bring this up! Kim
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Post by sielou on Mar 15, 2005 23:18:42 GMT
Thanks Kim for pointing that out to me =)! Actually I come to think of that later *away from the computer*, that Uranus in Libra must continue to Venus in Capricorn and so on. "What do you think this might mean, given the "base line" metaphor of the final depositor? What is this music like?" This major infinite loop sounds like a whole choir, or is it just like the energy is scattered around?____________________ Again... Aquarius sun> Uranus, Uranus in Libra> Venus, Venus in Capricorn> Saturn, Saturn in Gemini> Mercury, Mercury in Pisces> Neptune, Neptune in Sag *that is a word I have some difficulty spelling *> Jupiter, Jupiter in Aquarius> Uranus, Uranus in Libra> Venus, Venus in Capricorn> Saturn, Saturn in Gemini> Mercury, Mercury in Pisces> Neptune... Gemini Moon> Mercury, Mercury in Pisces> Neptune, Neptune in Sag> Jupiter, Jupiter in Aquarius> Uranus, Uranus in Libra> Venus, Venus in Capricorn> Saturn, Saturn in Gemini... Taurus Ascendant> Venus, Venus in Capricorn> Saturn, Saturn in Gemini> Mercury, Mercury in Pisces> Neptune, Neptune in Sag> Jupiter, Jupiter in Aquarius> Uranus, Uranus in Libra> Venus, Venus in Capricorn> Saturn, Saturn in Gemini... Mars in Taurus> Venus, Venus in Capricorn> Saturn, Saturn in Gemini> Mercury, Mercury in Pisces> Neptune, Neptune in Sag> Jupiter, Jupiter in Aquarius> Uranus, Uranus in Libra> Venus, Venus in Capricorn> Saturn, Saturn in Gemini... Pluto in Libra> Venus, Venus in Capricorn> Saturn, Saturn in Gemini>Mercury, Mercury in Pisces> Neptune... ---------------------------------- I don´t even see a theme here. The only thing I see is this major infinite loop, with no ending at all. It sounds a bit special, but scattered, or could I say balanced ;D?
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Post by svenskasfinx on Mar 15, 2005 23:30:05 GMT
hej Sielou!
I see this loop as a good thing because it points back at itself.. and is somewhat infinite as you said.
I really like that idea because it seems to catch the energies.. as opposed to scattering them. A loop feeds back into itself, that is not a scattering but a containment....
Yes I see it like a machine that never runs out of energy. It continues to energize itself. Thats what I'm seeing intutively, and not in any interpretation or "logic".
Take care,
svenskasfinx
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