friendship?

[primamateria]

OK, so its not that easy to cut ties to the father of one's offspring, and for this question came to me after a few days of working through some anger (abandonment) issues, and focusing on forgiveness...

so the question is 'can C and I be friends?'



if I take the traditional rulers as significators of 1st (for myself) and 11th (for C) - Jupiter and Saturn - the aspect is past perfection, so that is a NO

the moon, however, happily dignified in Taurus, is applying nicely to the 11th ruler Saturn from the second house, so that is a YES

(and tells me, again, there are money/values/self esteem issues here)

the funny thing looking at this chart is that I see these angles all the time now - and the MC is in the degree of C's Mars! Also of note is the Sun within a degree of my Jupiter and his Moon.

anyway... not sure what the chart is really saying, but in my heart I realise that the more I try to be free of this guy and all my mixed upu emotions regarding him, the less chance I have of ever being free of them.

can anyone else see anything in this chart?

pm

edit to add: just noticed the AC is in the same degree as the North NOde - which indicates that the matter is 'out of the hands of the querent' - yes?

[primamateria]

I just looked at Lynda Hill's Sabian Symbols Oracle for the degree of the moon and this is what it says:

"A YOUTHFUL WIDOW, FRESH AND SOUL-CLEANSED FROM GRIEF, KNEELS AT AN OPEN GRAVE TO RECEIVE THE SECRET OF ETERNAL LIFE

Looking at things that are gone or lost can stop people from accepting newer, vital relationships and opportunities into their life. Don't let your loss make you give up and throw everything away. Gathering up one's energy and starting on a new path is often the key. By realising the fact that life must go on, we learn that we can recover our feet and move forward. However it is very important o allow a time to grieve. Letting go of the past and things that are worn out and being accepting about it will bring release. the memory of the person, thing or situation that has gone or passed from your life can bring tears of grief, bu also tears of joy. Remember th gifts that have been given or left to you, and don't focus on the losses that you can't replace. How many times and for how long do you have to say goodbye to someone or something ? Take note of when it is time to fill in the 'grave' and complete the circle. Don't stand still, staring at loss, immobilized by fear. Imagine yourself walking away to a new chapter of your life. Fill in 'the grave' bless the past and move on...."

well - !! - there's an answer!

[ariesmoon]

Hi primamateria

I'm not fantastic on horary charts but I have found like you that looking up the Moon's degree in the Sabian symbols can give you wonderful insights. That's a startling one you've got there.

I did one once for a first meeting chart - with someone very elusive and charismatic who mesmerised me - and the Moon was in 9 Cancer "A Small Naked Girl Bends over a Sparkling Pond trying to Catch a Fish"! (And failing!)

[Juliet]

Dear Prima, I sent you a PM on the chart, Love, Juliet

[Kim Falconer]

I just saw this chart and have some ideas...must dash now but will be back to post them!!

xxx Kim

[Kim Falconer]

There are many ways to look at this chart, Prima. Since we are asking about IF there will be a friendship I wouldn't automatically assign C the 11th house. We don't know that he belongs there, that is why we are asking. I would give him the 7th house of 'the other' or even the 8th house which is the 4th (father) from the 5th (child, and also 5th child is it? third (sibling) from the 5th x 5?) That gets a little complex and in horary designation of house needs to be as simple and straightforward as possible. I would give him the 7th--the other--and take it from there.

If we do that, his ruler is Mercury and going retrograde before it completes the trine to your ruler Neptune on the 30th of October and the square to trad ruler Jupiter on the 26th of Oct. The point is, we have contact with the rulers and as is often the case, the parental bond between you exists regardless of your head space for each other. That's a given.

The co-ruling Moon's last major aspect is a trine to the Sun--the traditional symbol for alignment in relationship. The Moon's grand trine to ruler of 11th and your ruler Jupiter gives a yes, you will be friends if you so choose.

You may not be friends if you keep the head space, the vibe, of the past. In the past, you and he did this and that...you felt angry...it's still there ready to burst out. Until you let go of that past connection to him, it will be ready to activate be you friends or not (friends can make you angry and drive you nuts too remember! It's not a fool proof thing, being friends.)

What is fool proof is your ability to SEE him they way YOU want to. Our vision, our perception of another, is always selective. We choose to see in the other person the qualities we want to see and that highlights them, augments them in our minds. See him as YOU would love him to be, and begin by changing your story about him. Listen to your words. What do you say to others? What language do you use to describe how he is? Your relationship? Whatever you are say is what you will experience.

If it's too big a leap to say to others, and yourself, how you want him to be, AS IF he already were that way, you can practice saying, 'In the past, it was like this between us, but now we . . .

In the past, we didn't get along or agree on anything, but now be are best of friends, in perfect alignment.

By changing your perception of him, by seeing him as the friend you would love him to be and responding to him AS IF he were, regardless of how he is in 'reality' he will be that way to you. If you want to discuss this notion further, I am keen!

Meanwhile, you have plenty of reinforcement in the astrology to back up your desire--to be friends!

Kim

[primamateria]

thank you Kim,

I love what you wrote, and believe its true that any relationship can be healed (as Byron Katie says) - and the thing is that without this same belief he would have been out of my life long before now. (although I have felt defeated by the situation and decided that the relationship I most needed to heal is the one I have with myself)...

sometimes it does seem that even with doing 'the work' - be it inquiry or forgiveness or healing - that there is a process of two steps forward, one step back (now I realise I need to work on dissolving this belief too), things getting worse before they get better. Some of those old patterns/programs/beliefs/neural networks are stubborn and need extra effort. So although I 'drop the story' - there are times it seems the story won't drop me!

the whole affair with C (and by affair I just mean 'arrangement' as we never came to any definition of what we were to each other) has been such a gift in that all my fears and 'buttons' were activated, causing me to deal with them where once I would have stayed in blame and victimhood. Obviously I've done this for myself (not TO myself)!

there is more to this question, I realise now, than just C and me being friends - there is a pattern of 'fathers withdrawing and withholding support' happening here (dad and the house, my exhusband not paying child support, his father stopping the school fees and even C's father being disinterested in his only grandchild) which I need to heal within myself.

ergh, just putting down thoughts here...

back later with more ordered thoughts!

pm

[primamateria]

I've been thinking about this all afternoon, so of course I received text messages from him... he is still so angry/aggressive and I think I've decided that I need to just forgive him and move on, and not try to pursue a friendship. I just don't have any more energy to invest in it.

thanks again for your help

pm

[Kim Falconer]

Letting it go can be the thing that feels better, and every step we take towards a little better feeling serves us.

Now is the time to amp up the self love. Shower yourself with approval, support and adoration! I would love to hear TEN ways you treat yourself every day!

Anyone can join it. It's such a powerful thing, to self approve and self nurture!

xxx

[primamateria]

;D I can go for that Kim!

1. I use the most beautiful skin care products and cosmetics - dr. hauschka - and tell myself I deserve them without fail!

2. I wear my good undies!

3. I treat myself to a cappucino at my favourite cafe, where I'm always welcomed by name

4. I spend time just kissing and cuddling my children, immersing myself in their beauty and goodness and the miracle of their love - feeling like the luckiest woman on earth!

5. I buy the best fresh seasonal produce and serve everything on good plates - no more plastic, even if the children might break them!

6. I forgive myself for every little mistake - then remind myself there's nothing to forgive, everything is perfect

7. I sit in the sun for a few minutes and drink in the light

8. I drink blue solar water and bless it as I do

9. I look around me and appreciate the beauty I see, congratulate myself the I created it!

10. I go to sleep on my gorgeous french bedlinen, knowing my family always has everything we need


joy!

[ariesmoon]

Prima you've inspired me, and thanks so much Kim for suggesting it! I can't honestly say I do all these every day, which is telling in itself. Why not??? Only I can answer that!

Here's my 10:

1 I sing loudly and (mostly) tunefully and don't care if the neighbours can hear me

2 I tell myself "well done" (and mean it) whenever I've done a good day's work

3 I wear lovely undies (every day!)

4 I spend ages in a hot shower, luxuriating in it

5 I email or phone at least one great friend a day

6 I eat loads of fruit, as much as I can afford

7 I say thank you for the experience of feeling deep, true love even if I'm alone at the moment

8 I use a wonderful, rich night cream on my face

9 I take compliments and gifts graciously (that one took some work!)

10 I give myself a reiki healing treatment with crystals (not often enough, but working on it!)

The fact that I really had to think about that, and couldn't just rattle off 10 things, is food for thought in itself!

[Kim Falconer]

Isn't it interesting how we can usually come up in a flash with 10 things we do for others, or 10 goals, or 10 things we'd like to change but finding 10 ways we look after ourselves takes concentration. Sometimes we really have to dig deep!

I like to think of the ways I nurture each planet in my natal chart, using the symbols as an aspect of me that deserves love and honor. If 'someone' isn't getting any attention, I know right away what I can do to change it!

Here are some of my favorites:

1. Ritual tea in the morning
2. Go barefoot in the gardens
3. walk to the beach and feed the ravens
4. cycle to gym, train, and then juice at my fav cafe
5. let my friends treat me to dinner, dessert, coffee, you name it.
6. meditation, morning and evening
7. music!
8. say 'yes' only when I want to
9. cat time
10. study things I don't 'need' to learn

I love how most self nurturing is not expensive--it is a matter of tuning into what feels good and doing it. Often it is the simplest things that make us smile!

Thank you for these wonderful lists. My 6th house Moon is in heaven!

xxx Kim

[Juliet]

1. Writing my morning pages
2. Laughing
3. Yoga or other form of energetic movement
4. Staring aimlessly out of the window
5. Noodles with veggies and egg or fish
5. Reading and writing mail
6. Drinking kids tea with milk
7. Meditating
8. Being in nature, preferably feeling the wind in my hair and on face
9. Enjoying colours in any form
10. Casual smiling contacts with strangers

[Kim Falconer]

I love these posts!

Causal smiles with strangers! Staring aimlessly out the window!Singing loudly! Cappuccino at fav cafe!

There are so many divine things to experience!

Thank you!

Kim