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Post by Kim Falconer on Jan 31, 2008 20:20:26 GMT
Hi Everyone! Mercury Retrograde seems a perfect time to re-open the forum and I wanted to include a board for the Draconic Zodiac. I have a new article on the topic HERE: www.falconastrology.com/draconic.htmlThis is such an interesting time as Pluto crosses the Zero Degree Aries Point activating everyones Draco North and South Nodes! Comments Please! Warmly, Kim
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Post by AquarianEssence on Jan 31, 2008 23:45:07 GMT
Thanks for starting this Kim. It's been quite a while since I've had a chance to look at my Draconic chart, so many other things to do. I'm really glad you sent me in that direction because I realized that the eclipse coming February 7 is not only conjunct my natal descendant exact, it's the same degree as my Draconic Moon, 17Aq. My n. Saturn/Pluto is conjunct Draconic south node in the house of friends. This fits so perfectly with what I just shared in the Pluto into Capricorn thread. Also, the D. Sun is within half a degree of the N. Moon, even closer to the parallax Moon. The 2nd and 4th house placement of these might be read as the value, skills of the parents or specifically, mother. I have an interception of my natal Asc/Desc signs, Leo/Aq in the axis of home/career which would also be family karma. The other two fixed signs are ruling 2 houses each (1/7 and 2/8) because of this, so I seem to be working within the fixed laws of the universe to balance giving and receiving love in a way that values self and other appropriately. Of course, since I spent most of my adult life making my children my career, it wasn't valued properly or considered equal to what my mate contributed, by him or society in general. So that could be part of my family karma to change. With the north node in the 5th, I have no doubt that was the best contribution I could give to my family and to the world. Glad you're up and running again. Connie
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Post by primamateria on Feb 1, 2008 3:09:34 GMT
ooh, Connie I just got off the phone to my mum - wailed to her about all the pressure I'm feeling to 'do something with my life' as if being a mother to five children isn't enough. The issue of money and value and worth in direct relation to motherhood is rearing its head again - cancer on the second house cusp, moon in 5/Lib, I need balance, I guess. Frustrating. I always wanted to write a book about it, but listen too much to people who say I 'should' do this or that, anything but what I'm doing now. Poor me As for the Draco Chart, mine is exactly the same as my Natal on account of my NN being at the Aries Point - and as I said in the Pluto into Cap thread, I am feeling pretty shredded right now. I just did a 3 card tarot spread and got Hanged Man, Devil and Chariot, all reversed! yeesh! ;D
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Post by AquarianEssence on Feb 1, 2008 12:38:25 GMT
You are clearly planning on manifesting those nodes, being at the Aries point. Pluto there can open that door for you, show you how and where. Write that book. It needs to be said publicly. I worked with someone several years ago who received government assistance for daycare. They paid her daycare worker $20 more a week than she made for a 40 hour work week. The government values strangers taking care of children more than the mother. In fact they wouldn't help her with anything unless she worked away from home for pennies.
The cards are simply telling you to read it in a different way, a different language and in reverse, maybe. This is clearly an important message to you, being all major arcana. These 22 cards all correspond to a Hebrew-Chaldean letter. Here is what I see:
Hanged Man=Mem, seas or waters, a plural always used as a singular Devil, the Horned one=Ayin, the eye, fountain, central focus, sight Chariot=Cheth, the throaty ch, the fense that encloses, speech
If you read it as with Hebrew, in reverse (Hanged Man), from right to left. We have Ch M with the eye inserted. Cham is Ham in English translations. He is Noah's son that migrated south settling the area of Egypt and other African continent lands. It is the root word for Sun, and means hot. But if you live near the seas it is probably quite nice.
The Chariot corresponds to Cancer, the Devil to Capricorn and the Hanged Man is Neptune. If you combine Neptune with Speech you might write fiction or a book that unveils the mysteries, illuminate what has remained hidden. I think you want to write that book and make your mark in the Capricorn world. If I were writing it, the devil, that serpent in the garden of Eden would be the central focus. I think that may have been Lilith, Adam's first wife. I'm almost positive it was. If you have the Rider-Waite deck look at the devil reversed. He looks like a cute, sly little elf, smirking. The wrinkles in his forehead become the smile.
Did you ever notice God didn't tell Eve not to eat the fruit, only Adam? But Adam not only ordered her not to eat the fruit he added that she couldn't even touch it. The result for her was the ability to conceive and bear a child, be fruitful and multiply. The result for Adam was he needed to work and provide for his family. But yet, Woman was demonized and devalued when she is actually the only gate for souls to enter the earth plane.
There were 2 rivers (waters) that flowed from the garden. This may be symbolic of seminal fluid, the blood of the failed conception and the blood that cleanses after birth. Cherabim with flaming swords guard that gate. Notice the name ChM is the beginning and end of Cherabim. They are hot, flaming angles. Our word cherub comes from there. Later when the temple and rituals were instituted, the High Priest (new soul?) entered the most Holy of Holies, the inner sanctuary. But he was only allowed to do this once a year. A woman can have no more that one child per year.
Just some Draconic thoughts. ;D
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Post by primamateria on Feb 1, 2008 22:48:17 GMT
Connie those are great Draconic thoughts I agree with what you say about the Devil, Lilith and the Garden. The serpent was always a positive, feminine symbol of fertility and life - chthonic (sp?) and of the Great Mother, our pre-patriarchal ruling deity. (earth - nature - and the truth that this is a devouring force as well as a life giving one) I could go on and on about how every myth and ideology since Patriarchy and the cult of the Hero came to rule has been about destruction of the Mother, slaying the 'medusa', overcoming death (the mother = death). I write about this a lot on my blog (www.danaesinclair.com.au)... yes, you are right about the book, about it needing to be said, about the need for a 'return' (post crucify-and-resurrect mythology) and that I can do it. I'm appalled but not surprised about the day care subsidies, the same thing is happening in this country. My day care subsidy for university study was cancelled last year - women in my situation can now no longer get help for higher education, but the govt will pay generous bonuses for babies born, with or without the male figure in the 'nuclear family' model. There is a lot going on politically that I'm not really qualified to comment on, and Anne Summers wrote that book already I would rather be here in Australia, though, than anywhere else in the world right now. did you know that before agriculture women did not have a child every year? Maybe one every four years, being nomadic hunter tribes kept our numbers low... the symbol of wheat is very apt. When we settled and started farming, women lost our mobility and started to lose our power on account of all the pregnancies (and all that comes with that - vulnerablity, mortality et). Anyway, I'll get off my little soap box
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Post by ariesmoon on Feb 2, 2008 21:14:49 GMT
This is my first post, I've been inspired to join by Kim's article on draconic charts and by these early postings. I have given some tentative thought to interpretations which are necessarily very personal to me, which I'd like to share. I don't want to use my standby "cookbooks" - they have their place but this cries out for something much more personal and intuitive. Several things stand out straight away, and I'd be interested to see if others are seeing any similar themes in their draconic charts.
A. Whilst the elemental balance stays largely the same (with planetary changes) there is a striking change in emphasis in the qualities of the planets - my tropical chart has 2 Cardinal, 5 Fixed and 4 mutable (I'm including Chiron here as it forms the only conjunction in my tropical chart, 2 degrees from Jupiter in Pisces). My draconic chart has 6 Cardinal, 4 Fixed and only one mutable (Moon). (I've always felt more "cardinal" than fixed - always been more keen to get on with things, people say I never let grass grow, I love initiating projects. I'd put that down to a tropical Aries Moon, but never been entirely happy with that as it's 12th house and seems to struggle to get out in other ways. There had to be something else).
Has anyone else noticed a change in emphasis in elements or qualities?
B. My tropical Cancer Sun becomes Aquarian. Still pondering that, although I do have a strong Aquarian South Node/Saturn conjunction, close to the Midheaven. Aquarian energies feel very natural, very easy, and safe. They were dominant certainly in a 22 year career which ended a few years ago. It's a challenge - as it should be - not to just abandon those energies altogether, but to embrace the best of them, and use them to fulfil the North Node potential. Finding a draconic Aquarian sun is a surprise, and also a stimulus to look more closely at how best I can use those energies.
C. I have a tropical Venus/Saturn opposition - exact to 1 minute - 1 degree away from the nodal axis. This means draconic Saturn on 1 Libra, and draconic Venus on 1 Aries (wow!)
Does anyone else have close oppositions tied to the Nodes? Any thoughts on how might those energies might play out differently in draconic charts?
D. My tropical chart has a completely empty 7th/8th/9th quadrant. Overlaying draconic placements into the tropical chart gives me a 7th house Sagittarian moon and an 8th house Capricorn Mars. Straight away these made sense. I'm a compulsive long-distance traveller, I love airports, and I love the whole journey, not just the destination. I love meeting people on my journeys and have always had a sense that I relate better to those in other cultures from mine. If I don't have at least one foreign trip booked, there's something missing for me. So 7th house Moon in Sagittarius makes perfect sense. And the 8th house Capricorn Mars (my first instinct was " help, be afraid, be very afraid" but I've decided to embrace it! Cardinal energy is all about facing fears, after all! It certainly wakes up, by trine, my dormant 5th house Pluto!) I've always been fascinated by forensic pathology, and by deeply psychological crime novels involving career-obsessed, maverick, male (never female) detectives. They seem to embody Mars/Capricorn energies exactly.
Has anyone else overlayed draconic placements and found that they fill sign or house gaps, or both?
Early thoughts. Looking at my draconic chart is already answering questions for me, and is posing all sorts of new ones! Thanks so much Kim for initiating this, and I look forward to reading others' postings on this fascinating topic.
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Post by Kim Falconer on Feb 6, 2008 9:27:16 GMT
Hi AriesMoon and welcome to the forum!
It's good to have your comments and also to see interest already growing in this new board. Your make some great points:
A. Looking to see a shift in modalities--the forms of motion: Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable--can be instructive. Again it is that feeling of what is 'underneath' the personality, driving it. You may find that when planets progress into a new modality that matches the Draconic position the emphasis is even stronger.
B. Where is your Draconic sun? Near 17 degrees Aq? The Eclipse (in about 15 hours) is exact opposite my Draconic sun at 17 Leo. Let's compare notes. Anyone else have Draconic planets or points near this eclipse or closely aspected?
c. This is a great question--I have the Vertex conjunct the N. Node and Uranus conjunct the South. I'm going to give the sign shift some thought (from Cap-Can to 'of course' Aries-Libra)...
D. YEs!!! This is an important point in exploring the Draconic Zodiac. Basically we are looking at how it relates back to the tropical. What new aspects and house placements are made? I'm a 10th house Gemini, but my Draco Sun in Leo is in my 12th...possibly explaining the propensity to withdraw into my own creative world al la novelist! It really makes so much sense--to the point it starts to feel essential to look at both the tropical and draconic charts together to get a fuller picture!
Thanks for joining the forum and participating!
Who else can comment on these points?
I so appreciate Pimamateria and AquarianEssenCe for jumping in here too! Thank you!
Warmly, Kim
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Post by ariesmoon on Feb 6, 2008 18:07:17 GMT
Thanks for your comments Kim, and I'm delighted to be part of the forum, which I'd been reading for some time. I was going to look for a thread on the Solar Eclipse today, as it is so close to my prenatal one - but hadn't thought to connect the eclipse to the draconic chart. I'm a second house Cancer, but draconic Sun is 24 Aquarius (which falls in my tropical 10th house). My tropical Saturn is 10 Aquarius, so the eclipse is in fact at the exact midpoint between the two. (That's a whole new topic in itself, but I had to throw it in! The eclipse acting as a bridge between the tropical and draconic chart?) Solar eclipses seem to me to be about throwing new light on things, and that's very pertinent as I'm beginning to see Saturn in a new, much more constructive light having left behind a long, very Saturnian career (government administrator) which I had begun to resent.
This solar eclipse fascinates me particularly as it's at 17 Aquarius, almost conjunct my pre-natal solar eclipse which was 15 Aquarius. And the forthcoming lunar eclipse on 20 February, at 1 Virgo, is closely conjunct the pre-natal lunar eclipse (at 0 Virgo). That's the first time in 45 years that one cycle has been so close to the pre-natal one. My interpretation of this is that I'm ready, having completed a cycle in my working life and having begun to move into a very different one, to be reminded both of what I'm here to teach (solar eclipse) and what I'm here to learn (lunar). And finding draconic Sun in Aquarius, falling in my tropical 10th house and therefore shining much more brightly than the tropical sun, reinforces that feeling. I've been asked so many times in my life that I've lost count, if I'm a teacher. I haven't been, up to now, but have begun to train as one. And it feels right.
Going to think more about Saturn, and the Sun in Aquarius!
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Post by ariesmoon on Feb 14, 2008 22:25:53 GMT
I seem to be writing a lot on the forum lately! but I had to post this while I think of it. I noticed tonight when doing transits, that the Sun is at 24 Aquarius (my draconic sun placement). So I decided to set a draconic solar return chart, out of curiosity.
I can hardly believe what I'm seeing - a chart with the sun at 24 Aquarius 31, my draconic placement, set for where I live in the UK, gives all four angles at the Aries points:
Ascendant 0 Libra 01/Descendant 0 Aries 01 Midheaven 0 Cancer 01/IC 0 Capricorn 01
I've never seen a chart like that - has anyone any experience of that?
I'm not sure if draconic solar returns are ever done, if I'm comparing apples and oranges, if there's any validity in this at all. But the results seemed astonishing, so I wanted to share them. Attempting a stab in the dark at interpretation, I'd say something like:
This solar return chart represents the beginning of a completely new way of looking at myself, seeing the draconic chart, the subtle energies at work underneath my tropical chart, clearly in focus for the first time ever. Seeing strong, cardinal energies which I hadn't previously been aware of. I love Kim's image of the draconic chart being the silk lining under a coat and it's as if from now on, I can go out into the world aware of that and aware too that others can see it.
The chart placements in the return seem to be picking up ideas I've been toying with, and which are part of an emerging pattern of change. Things just under the surface which I'd discussed vaguely with a few close friends, but hadn't yet brought out fully into the light. There's a strong 4th/5th house emphasis in the draconic solar return with Pluto, Jupiter and Venus in Capricorn in the 4th. I've definitely been aware of wanting stronger, deeper roots and being aware that I may have to go through profound changes (Pluto conjunct IC) to achieve them. Venus and Jupiter there seem to bode well for that. Sun joins Neptune , Mercury and Chiron in the 5th in Aquarius, with the North Node. As well as a deep consciousness that I haven't been having nearly as much fun up to now as I ought to be, and I'm planning to rectify that, I'm also beginning to develop ideas for a new career path in play therapy with children, possibly using music, drama and reiki. Uranus in Pisces in the 6th, ruling that 5th house, seems to emphasise a combination of innovation with spiritual healing. An 8th house Taurus moon (incidentally conjunct exactly my tropical Mars, and transiting Sedna) chimes in beautifully with a slowly emerging sensuality. 9th house Gemini Mars trines the Sun and Neptune, reflecting a restless curiosity and a need to be learning something new after a year out of studying. 11th house Saturn shows an emerging need to find out who my real, loyal and faithful friends are.
When I overlay the draconic natal placements of Saturn (at 0 Libra 57), Venus (0 Aries 57) and Neptune (1 Cancer 25), then add in transiting Pluto at 0 Capricorn 32, I get a cardinal grand cross on the chart angles. That's where I run out of inspiration! This is shouting significance at me, but as it's nearly 10.30 pm here I need to stop now and come back to reflect on it later. Unless anyone has any thoughts they'd like to share?
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Post by ana on Feb 15, 2008 12:43:54 GMT
I did the planet half of my Drac positions on a bit of paper not having a programme and got too tired to do the other bit yet IS THERE ANYWHERE FREE ON THE NET TO DO IT? I turn into a Scorpio with Pluto in Scorpio which is just as whatever as being a Leo with Pluto in Leo...................... If I have done it right I am in the process of adding bits to my Mac so I can run a PC Astrology programme
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Post by ariesmoon on Feb 15, 2008 17:37:20 GMT
Ana, no, sorry I couldn't find anywhere on the net to do it. I used a programme I bought (Astrocalc Synastry 6.0) which does the basic draconic chart but not (as I discovered) draconic composites. It thinks it does, but when I checked the positions against my calculations they were way out. It's got a few asteroids on it - Pallas, Ceres, Juno, Vesta as well as Chiron but no others (in particular no Eros or Psyche, which for a Synastry programme is odd, but then again it was relatively cheap!) So I ended up doing much of it by hand. I'm amazed Astro.com doesn't offer it, it does everything else!
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Post by ana on Feb 16, 2008 12:26:44 GMT
Hmmm...........thanks ariemoon When I get a programme I do want one with as many asteroids as poss having waited so long Yes I love Eros and Psyche and all my important relationships have involved a Psyche conj but Eros has not figured so importantly Oops off the subject.................
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Post by ariesmoon on Feb 17, 2008 12:26:58 GMT
Thanks Ana, you prompted me to look at draconic Eros again. From being at a light and airy (and somewhat cynical and flippant) 7 Gemini (in the 12th just behind my ascendant), conjunct a Gemini Mercury, it becomes 27 Capricorn in my draconic chart. It's a very different energy, much darker - from being up in the tree canopy in sunlight, to down on the forest floor in amongst the leaf litter! (Explains my attraction to earthy writing!). Reading Kim's descriptions again of Eros in the signs, I do recognise some of the traits there particularly on sublimating desires through work (that ties in strongly with Saturn/MC opposite Venus).
It falls in the 9th in my tropical chart - I thought at first that there were no strong aspects to tropical planets (apart from a wide trine to Mars in Taurus) but thinking further it's only 6 degrees from my MC at 3 Aquarius. Slightly wide, but as Kim has said, if it feels like it's in orb, then it probably is! Draconic Mercury is at 4 Aquarius. Much as I feel that career is now in the past, I did get very passionate (Eros) about all the wider learning (9th) I was doing, and about leaving behind something concrete and practical (Capricorn) that helped others to learn too. My last role in that career was to co-write (Mercury) a guide book and help organise a conference to launch it. I haven't thought of it in that way, until just now. I'd just wanted to shut it all off, as being in the past. But that would be denying the achievement, and denying what I get passionate about. About learning, and about finding concrete ways to share it and expand it further. Just the act of writing this has highlighted that for me, so thanks again for prompting it!
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Post by Aphrodite on Feb 17, 2008 13:47:20 GMT
I just noticed some amazing things in my draconic chart. Not much time to comment about that. But I did want to answer Ana's question about software. The latest Kepler program, with the Asteroid Signatures by Jacob Schwartz add-on is the best. It not only gives you pretty much ALL the asteroids (THOUSANDS!) it also has a lookup tool so you can look up the interpretations and basic info and aspects. It can handle conversions of asteroids for composite, progressed and draconic charts, too. That is already included in the basic Kepler program. However, the price will set you back a bit! www.astrosoftware.com/AsteroidSignatures.htmHere are a couple of examples from the asteroid reference program. I didn't have any aspect hits (within 1 deg) for Medusa, so I added harmonics to it. Most of the time I turn off half the stuff that is available because it is just too much information! 1: MEDEA, 5 LEO 08, Speed=0°18', (#212) was named for daughter of Colchis king Aeetes and niece of Circe, she aided Jason in attaining the Golden Fleece, restored Jason's aged father and killed Glauce and her own two children when Jason abandoned her; sorceress, priestess of Hekate. Greek word for ruling. Astrologically interpreted as intense emotions and bonding with extreme love or hate or both simultaneously was discovered 6 Feb 1880 by J Palisa, Pola and named in 1883 Places: Medea wilaya in Algeria; Medora city in IN, ND Medea Sxt Sun 0°57' S 2: MEDUSA, 23 ARI 31, Speed=0°31', (#149) was named for the mortal Gorgon, beheaded by Perseus and her head placed on the shield of Athena where its look turned onlookers into stone, and from her blood sprang the winged horse Pegasus. Astrologically interpreted as the triumph of patriarchal forces over the matriarchal Gorgon Amazons of Lake Triton, or the slaying by Perseus, representing a naval triumph over the Gorgon rulers of the Azores islands was discovered 21 Sep 1875 by J Perrotin, Toulouse Medusa Qntl Ven 0°14' S Medusa Qntl Sat 0°09' S Medusa Sesq Plu 0°58' S Medusa 3/16 Ves 0°37' S I hope this was helpful to you. Warmly, Aphrodite
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Post by Kim Falconer on Feb 19, 2008 21:45:40 GMT
Hi Everyone, First of all, yes, sometimes you do get the 0 degree Aries Point on all 4 angles. It always makes my eyes pop open though! It suggests a year of great initiation--these are the Cardinal points and they are about action and new beginnings. Things move fast! Let's discuss this further. Also, thank you Aphrodite for the software tips and examples. I agree Kepler is the go. If anyone would like their Basic Draconic Natal Chart done, email me. I'll do them for Forum Members and send out in a jpeg. The asteroid generator (link on my main page under 'Find your Eros HERE) used to generate Draconic positions too. It is a free service. I'll have to check that the Draco option is still there. More soon, Kim
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