Importance of Midpoints

[Kim Falconer]

Hello Amoroso,

This is what Stephen Arroyo would call a “Double Whammy”.

His Chiron activates your Psyche/Eros energy, and your Eros/Chiron activates his Eros energy…the lightening strikes both ways.

The Chiron feeling embraces you both as well…the cheek, the audacity, the bitter-sweet, the sorry the pain of the “obstacles immovable”…the vulnerability. It all mixes with the erotic desire and the longing for union.

Not to mention the line of psychic awareness.

I guess it’s just another “indicator” to mesmerise you, to bring more of you to life...in case ALL THE OTHER contacts weren’t enough!

Kim

[sielou]

Kim said: "Perhaps you are adding up “the other way around”. The circle has 360 degrees. Your Sat/Venus are 150 apart in the near aspect and of course the remaining 210 degrees the “other way” to complete the circle. Do you see what I mean?"
Thanks Kim for setting me straight here . Yes I guess I had trouble with the ´other way´ ....

[Amoroso]

Dear Kim et all,

On the thread “Transits to falling in love” I reported that T. Eros was on my natal Apollo, but I realized that it was actually something more important. My natal Apollo at 21 Cancer is actually the exact midpoint between my Venus and MC. That meant Eros was also directly in opposition to his Sun (19 Cap) my Juno/BML (20 Cap) and his Mars (21 Cap.) And that my Juno/BML is actually the midpoint between his Sun and Mars.

This just underscores the importance of midpoints. This is just what I need—another metaphor for the intensity between C and me. Sigh. Perhaps there is another posting to be done on the “Eros and Marriage” thread…..

Blessings,
Amoroso

[Kim Falconer]

Yes, that does underscore the significance of midpoints. Your Venus/MC has a lot to do with your career in the arts and also your outer expressions of amorous relationships. Having Saturn there for SOOOOOOOOOO long can't have been easy. It must feel like everything you want in this area of life is limited, restricted and yet compelled!

I am thinking this will shift as Saturn moves forward and away from this midpoint!

Let us know what you feel when Saturn is, say, 5 degrees away (25 Cancer) in June-July.

And yes, just another connection for you an C to "sweeten the pot"...it's already dripping ambrosia from the heavens!

Kim

[svenskasfinx]

I'm just thinking some things out loud here:

Pluto/Vesta midpoint = Mars
Saturn/Pluto midpoint = Mars

Pallas /Vesta midpoint = Sun
Uranus/ Vesta midpoint = Sun
Venus/Mars midpoint = Sun
Saturn/Pallas midpoint = Sun
Saturn/Uranus midpoint= Sun


Now let me get this straight.. the midpoint not only makes a connection of planetary energies, but also is a combination of the house energies and signs they are found in as well?

And how exactly do these midpoints work in synastries? for example my

Pluto/Vesta midpoint = Mars
Saturn/Pluto midpoint = Mars

are = to his Moon/Psyche conjunction which is equal to a midpoint of Moon/Psyche...can it really handle this kind of energy? These are examples from the in the first house for both charts in the sign of Cancer. Sabin Symbol= for 7 degrees "Two NATURE SPIRITS DANCING UNDER THE MOON LIGHT" keynote- The play of invisible forces in all manifestations in life.


I have been using some Sabin symbols as well (the book says to round up the number because there is no 0 so that would be equal to 1; thus 29 equal to 30 since they give a 30 in my book.

These Midpoints and the Sun are on 10 degrees Cancer "A LARGE DIAMOND IN THE FIRST STANGES OF THE CUTTING PROCESS." keynote-The arduous training for perfection in order to fully manifest an ideal.

This is an example of how I've been using midpoints.. are there other ways? Aside from the already activated points?

Do they have as much force in synastry?

I note a comparison which has my Urania at 1 degree 05 Cancer conjunct someone elses Vesta at 1 degree 15 Cancer and the Sabin Symbol for the 2nd degree is: A MAN ON A MAGIC CARPET HOVERS OVER A LARGE AREA OF LAND. keynote- The ability to expland one's consciousness by stablizing one's point of view at a higher level.

This was equal to my Mercury/Mars midpoint if I'm not mistaken.. at 1 degree 23 Cancer (I think )

Do any of my questions make sense?

Take care,

svenskasfinx

[Kim Falconer]

Hi Svenskasfinx,

I am going to look at your post in two parts: Midpoints and Sabian symbols.

First of all, the Sabian symbols do run in a slightly different degree order than we are used to. You are right on track there. My Jupiter at 29 Gemini 55’ is not “29 Gemini” in the Sabian Symbols, it is “30 Gemini” and my Venus a 0 Cancer 09’ is 1 Cancer. So take the Sabian degree that you planet or point is “moving into”.

Second, aren’t these symbols amazing? To think how they were created too is so bizarre really. (Marc Edmund Jones and Elsie Wheeler, and astrologer and a clairvoyant, when about in his car in San Diego in the early 20’s on day. They had a set of cards, 360, on marked for every degree of the zodiac 1-30 of each sign, and Mark would hand Elsie a blank card (she couldn’t see the degree it represented on the other side) and she would describe a scene she saw in front of her. (Elsie Wheeler was extremely gifted at “seeing symbols”.) They went on like this all day until the cards were completely filled in!)

Here are some pointers for astrologers on how to use the symbols: (From Lynda Hill—check her site—it’s full of information!

www.sabiansymbols.com/

The Symbols can be used in every aspect of astrology, including horary, mundane, electional and indeed for any of the zodiacal systems such as heliocentric, sidereal or draconic. All that's required is a zodiac degree. A great exercise that helps one to see more into these Symbols is to look up the Symbol for the Sun at sunrise and watch it manifest throughout the day... or the degree of the Moon, at any time, but particularly at new and full Moons.

The Symbols can be applied to any point in the zodiac. They will reveal, at times brilliantly and clearly, added layers of meaning to the degree of any of the planets, any asteroids that one might use, the angles - in fact anywhere there's an zodiacal degree. My belief is: wherever one seeks meaning, one will find meaning

On the Midpoints, I uses them in this way:

1. The midpoints are “points” located half way between ANY other two points.

2. You can look at a midpoint created from any two degrees of the chart.

3. Midpoints combine the energy of the planets (or asteroids or points) involved. Look at them as if they were in strong aspect AT THAT DEGREE

4. The midpoints don’t so much a blend the signs involved. The point has its own sign! That is the “orientation” of the energy AT THAT DEGREE

5. If you have a planet or point on that midpoint, you have THREE energies to combine

6. If you have 2 midpoints at the same degree, you have 4 energies to combine and so forth.

7. There are near and far midpoints (the half-way between two planets and the opposition of that halfway point.

8. Natal Midpoints (like planets)can be activated by three things:
Time: (transits and progression)
Location (moving to another place
People (synastry—“People are like permanent transits)

9. Robert Hand says “midpoints are like planets but with a more concentrated focus!)

10. Midpoints between two planets that are in aspect in the natal chart ADD information to how that aspect is going to work (now consider the HOUSE the Midpoint falls in—it’s not “blending the two houses so much as bringing a Point of Focus to the one it is in and the sign it is in.

Now, what was the question?
;D
How about give me an example of one midpoint in your chart, the planets involved, the degree of the point and the house it falls in and the synastry contact and I'll show you how I would interpret it... I know you gave some examples but I'm a little confused (which comes frequently to me lately!)

Let me know!
Warmly,
Kim

[svenskasfinx]

Hej Kim,

Sorry about the confusion, I'm rather confusing as you know, especially during a retrograde of Mercury -

Thanks for your input about the Sabian Symbols also, because I noticed that some websites which have used the degrees in the "traditional" way have been rather confused.. so I made certain to read it over again. (The Dane Rudhyar books I bought back in 1993 were inspired by an artical in Dell Horoscope on Sabain Symbols and Manta Hari's chart and it WAS wonderful and so I had to learn more about them)

Your Midpoint explanation was quite complete too. I was just wondering about how the planetary energies could "tie into" the energies of a house ruler for example.

But back to my question as an example for synastry:
My -
Pluto/Vesta midpoint = Mars
Saturn/Pluto midpoint = Mars

Are aspected by conjunction to his Moon/Psyche conjunction which is equal to a midpoint of Moon/Psyche...can it really handle this kind of energy?

These are examples from the in the first house for both charts in the sign of Cancer; all at roughly 6 degrees Cancer (Sabian for 7 degrees Cancer.

Because its the first house, I can imagine that it can be physically exciting but alot of energy for Psyche (and the Moon) to handle so directly, not only that but there is a Pluto/Saturn Midpoint tossed into the mix of intensity on my part which as I said, is equal to Mars at that degree.

As I said once again, thanks for your answers, I'm still always amazed by reading things and other people's understandings help me very much!

Take care,

Svenskasfinx

[gemstar]

Last night I began to explore the midpoints-thanks to this wonderful thread!

Firstly, the mid-points' calculations (individual) are available on astro.com! You can go to the extended chart selection, click on the 'Pullen/Astrolog' choice up near the top left and look under the chart selection there!

So my next question is this...the orb must be tight!?!
Obviously less than 1 degree-yes?

This question is for Kim...how much significance do you place on the midpoints if more asteroids seem to fall on the midpoint synastry with the partner than planets? Do you feel asteroids are just as important? There just seemed so many and I began to wonder if it was just a weird coincidence! LOL! Hmmmmm......

Thanks for your kind guidance!
GemStar

[Amoroso]

Dear GemStar,

"This question is for Kim...how much significance do you place on the midpoints if more asteroids seem to fall on the midpoint synastry with the partner than planets? Do you feel asteroids are just as important? There just seemed so many and I began to wonder if it was just a weird coincidence!"

Recently, in regards to the thread on "transits to falling in love" I looked at the transits to the birth of my both of my children--my greatest Loves--and was very surprised to find that it was more asteroids transits to midpoints than direct planetary energy that was evident! So, whatever Kim has to say about your question, I would like to add that it definately seems to be significant--I have these children here to prove it!

Blessings,
Amoroso

[gemstar]

Dear Amoroso-

Thanks for your insight! How lucky you are to have such great loves as your children! And how interesting that you had the experience of more asteroids contacting your midpoints than planets. Hmmm....very interesting.

I looked at the midpoints further this morning and just am in awe of the contacts. There were so many exact (within minutes) that I felt somehow validated. My intuition is so on and I love the astrological back-up!

The other 'transits falling in love' thread really had me looking deeper into the conjunctions. Now the midpoints are just as fascinating to me.

In the past, I had not considered asteroid contacts but now see how they reiterate the planetary influences/contacts. Most of the same themes actually!

I am still trying to differentiate the midpoint strengths vs the regular contacts.
Are they both equally important?

Happy Easter/Holiday Everyone!

GemStar

[Kim Falconer]

:DFirst of all, Amoroso, I agree with your response to GemStar. Asteroid contacts to midpoints are valid and offer significant information. You do have to keep a few things in mind, though, such as orb (1 to 1.5 degrees usually, otherwise there is to much “overlap”) and the importance of keeping the midpoint combination in “context” with the rest of the chart.

Also, as I have said often, there are thousands of named asteroids. If you plotted them all you would have tons of asteroids on every midpoint—the whole chart wheel would be filled in—so be selective. It’s not about finding a midpoint and then searching for what asteroids fall there. It is more about having a theme in mind that you are exploring (such as career, creative expression, relationship, parenthood) and then choose the asteroids you feel associated with this theme and see where they fall. Then you get your added information within the context of the chart, or charts, you are looking at.

I hope that helps explain things. As Svenskasfinx reminded us, Mercury is Retrograde and we may have to go over this material more before it becomes crystal clear!

Now, People or Transits, it doesn’t matter! A synastry asteroid might light up a midpoint and so might an asteroid by transit or progression. The important thing to ask is, What’s waking up?

It is also instructional to watch midpoint transits to the chart, but I think that might be another thread!

Oh, one other thing. I like to stick to the 10 planets, 4 major asteroids, Psyche and Eros (yes, I think they are THAT important) the AP, the Vtx, Nodes, Asc. & Mc. Phew! That gives us over 150 points plus another 150 for the indirect points (the opposition). You can see right away that you want to be selective in the midpoints that you consider at any given time. Think about the theme you are unraveling in the chart. If it is romance and relationship, look at the midpoints with this theme. If it’s career or travel you’ll look at another set.

You get the idea.

In my article on compatibility I discussed midpoints and Asteroids most useful in relationship. You can start to develop your own lists in this regard!

Okay, I’m going to make a cup of tea and come back to Svenskasfinx’ question. It’ll be a good example!

Warmly,
Kim

[Kim Falconer]

Hi Svenskasfinx,

Lets investigate the natal midpoint configuration in Cancer in the 1st house, then we can see how his midpoint is activating it, and visa versa.

You have (hope I have this right) Natal Mars conjunct your Pluto/Vesta & Saturn/Pluto midpoints.

Right away, that says something about your personal planet Mars and how you assert your healthy aggression, get your way and even “get out of bed” in the morning! Mars is your engine and here you have the added fuel of Pl/Ves and Sa/Pl.

Now, these midpoints themselves aren’t as important as say, midpoints involving the Sun or angles. They are more “generational” (at least the Saturn/Pluto one) as most people born your year will have that midpoint in Cancer and many will have it in that degree. Still, on your personal planet Mars, we can see something quite personal perhaps.

So we are looking at a theme of “restriction or limitations that might lead to change.” (Sa/Pl) You could see this midpoint as an area of life that forces you deal with an environment or person that wants to control you and you want to explode out of it! It can also be struggle that makes you stronger! I can’t help putting two and two together here and seeing his Moon (mom) conjunct this point! (but that is a leap that we wont make yet. Let’s stay objective for now!)

Pl/Ves is looking for transformation through ritual and devotion. Wow. I get the feeling you can find yourself in those Sa/Pl situations and just HANDLE! I see this as a very strong quality.

You may find that Mars here on these midpoints means that when you assert your will (mars) you evoke the energies of the midpoints (limits and restrictions with an equally strong desire for transformation—deep psychological insights coming though devotion and ritual)

Now, on top of that, whenever you get a transit to Mars, you activate these midpoints. And, whenever you meet someone and relate to them who has a planet there on you r Mars it is going to activate this point.

Enter now your husband with his Moon and Psyche conjunct your Mars/and midpoints.

Notice that whenever we have a close conjunction, we have a conjunction to the midpoint as well. This is what makes conjunctions so intense!

His Moon in cancer (and psyche) says that whenever he is “doing” his moon, being nurturing, domestic, sensitive, instinctual, needy, emotive, psychic, and in his feeling world, it is going to wake up your Mars (desire to act) along with the midpoints that modify that desire to act…or at least, go with it).

If he is not doing his Moon but projecting it, the projection will touch you off as well. It could be his mother, his child, or YOU…if he is inclined to assign you with his own feelings sometimes.

Can you see how this works?

You in turn, when you are “doing” your Mars, asserting your will, you set off his very sensitive feeling world. How much he enjoys his own feeling world is equal to how much he enjoys your Mars!

Does anyone have anything to add here? Comments about synastry contacts to midpoints? They can tell a whole story on their own, yet we have to remember to relate them back to themes of the natal and not take them in isolation.

Thanks for your example Svenskasfinx!

Warmly,
Kim

[sielou]

Hi GemStar !

You wrote:

"Firstly, the mid-points' calculations (individual) are available on astro.com! You can go to the extended chart selection, click on the 'Pullen/Astrolog' choice up near the top left and look under the chart selection there! "

Hmmm... Yes I see the Aspect/midpoint grid chart, under Pullen/Astrolog, at astro.com.
But how do I interpret it?

Thanks,

[gemstar]

Hello Kim!

Thanks for your answer to my question!! All of it makes good sense! I have stayed with the main asteroids as well-remembering you having said at one time that there were too many asteroids to plot all at the same time!

I had taken this into account...but kept the orb at most: 1.2 degrees. This is why I was asking the question if it was normal to have quite a few (more than 10) contacts on mid-points in synastry. (Not even including the regular planet/asteroid contacts). This was only looking at the conjunctions as well. I am using this as a great exercise to expand my knowledge....

Now I will keep the happenings in mind as the asteroids/planets hit mid-points. My charts look like a crazy mess!! Ink everywhere! But I am passionate about learning-must be Vesta in my ninth house!

Thank You again Kim! Your site is outstanding and the depth of astrology that is being explored here is incredible! Thank you for you!

Warm Regards-

GemStar

[Kim Falconer]

You are very welcome!

I'm just delighted that this forum is growing into such a diverse and open learning place. Everyone's contributions are making it informative, experiential and unique.

Thank you everyone for participating!

I love it!

Kim