marry?

[3rdhousenorth]

primamateria said:

much, much later.... anyone ever get completely disheartened with astrology??

This relationship couldn't have gone more wrong... we aren't even talking now and he hasn't seen his child more than a handful of times in the five months since she was born...

I cast another chart the other day asking 'is this man my husband to be?' (I really don't know why, as things are just so bad, even if I do love him) and got a definite 'yes'. Its all so strange.

I have much more faith in transits and progressions, and basic natal and relationship astrology. Sorry things went so wrong, PM. Anything that fits better in the basic asto patterns?

3rdhousenorth

[primamateria]

Anything that fits better in the basic asto patterns?

ah, yes I suppose Saturn on my Solar Return Ascendant could be a bit of an obvious one... its been a pretty lonely year - and one I wouldn't have expected as Jupiter has been hovering between my DSC and seventh house Mars since January.

but, having said that, I recognise that I feel like I'm in a better relationship with myself than ever, and that I haven't much need for a partner at this stage. In many ways its a blessing that the man in question decided against being with me. I'm so clear on that, even if he turned up on my doorstep this very minute with flowers I would have to say NO, because I can't see how he and I could be good together now. In fact, I don't even know him.

Too much Saturn in our synastry maybe? Too slow, too much anger, too little affection. I got impatient waiting for him to 'decide' to love me.

argh!

[3rdhousenorth]

Well, Jupiter on the Descendant can just be freedom from relationship, or at least the kind that's full of Saturn.

I got impatient waiting for him to 'decide' to love me.

Oh, I have certainly been there!

Sounds like you're in a good place with yourself, and that's the most important thing. It's a good place for someone else to come in on an equal and respectful level.

[Juliet]

Dear Prima,
I'm sorry it worked out that way!
It took me just THAT kind of relationship to teach how to really love me, and to help me to be ready when the respectful and equal relationship came along...
Love, and how is your daughter doing??

Juliet

[primamateria]

i think about this chart from time to time... interesting to look it over again, especially as that rising degree is where neptune and the north node are right now...

funny thing is that he jokes around about us getting married... at his mother's funeral on friday I saw him for the first time in a suit, and standing next to him in the front of the chapel in front of his mother's coffin, surrounded by flowers gave me strange mixed feelings. About two hundred people commented on how good we look together...and HE said about five times that he's completely in love with me..

too bad I caught him kissing his cousin later that night!

what a rat bag.

[Aphrodite]

I always root for love to win the day, but then reality kicks in. Life seems so sad sometimes. Then I wake up the next day and do it all over again. I believe that there is enough love in this world. It will come to you someday! Hang in there!

Love and light to you,

Aphrodite

[primamateria]

thanks in the words of someone very wise... love is the only thing that's real. Worth remembering, even in the event of cousin snogging thanks for the support. pm

[Kris]

Cousin snogging when in love with someone else. Wonderful to read this... One can have sex with anybody but cann't love someone as simply as that.

Of late, I am really wondering about the very definition of love. How to understand love ? From recent experience I say you continue to look and look and look for that significant other. Nothing bothers you other than the absence of the person. There may not be any dialogue between you, still you wait and wait and wait to have a glimpse and feel very happy and complete on finding the special one. After numerous disappointments, I thought I never experience the kind of love I desire to have.... But now, I have been undergoing deep tranformative experience for the last 7 months that is so overwhelming. A great feeling that changed my very outlook of life.

So are you in love with each other ?

Well Prima, be patient. The love, the kind of love you look for do come to your life. If your vertex is strongly connected to either venus, moon or any other outer planets you are bound to experience it sometime in life. Aphrodite is right I believe...

So what's up for you. Good luck... Cheers

love
Kris

[primamateria]

yes Kris you are right, love is one thing and sex another...

are we in love with each other?

no.

we aren't even a couple... he has neptune tightly conjunct his ascendant and both of these conjunct MY part of fortune - he disolves my boundaries, I feel joy, but it is illusion...there's a lot of laughter and a lot of feeling 'right' about things, but at the end of the day there's no commitment and no definition.

..and I see through the ego and the personality of this man to his real self and that is who I love... I see through his antics and would forgive him anything. I do forgive him everything~!

does he feel the same? Probably not. It doesn't even matter!

all I can do is love and care for my self and try to get past my own ego and personality - in this sense meeting this man has been the best thing that has ever happened to me because his refusal to play his role in my 'story' has caused me to question everything - out of this I've grown.

just like you say, it really is a profound transformation.

and how about you?

did you ever find the property you wanted and make the changes in your career you hoped to?

[primamateria]

ps vertex in my natal at 25'22 Capricorn is in tight sqare aspect to moon at 24 Libra in house 5, trine Jupiter at 26 Virgo in 4 (seventh house ruler) as well as sextile Neptune in sixth at 27 Scorpio, and sextile Midheaven at 24 Pisces.

this man and I have composite sun exactly on my anti vertex, and our daughter has her moon with my Vertex (actually three of my daughters have their moon there)...

..and I have just discovered (don't know how I could have turned a blind eye to this before!) my Moon at 24 Libra is exactly conjunct HIS Anti-Vertex.

[Kris]

Brief but crisp narration. . I hope you will not have to face the disillusion as you realized how the Neptunian energy is playing the game between you. Wonderful to note that your mind set mirror images mine. We do have strong neptune con tacts and I do expect a change the way we perceive each other. So far it did not happen.

YES.. true that we question everything when others refuse to play their role in our story. I did my best to express myself unambiguously but she refuses to communicate in any form. Though there was lot of symbolic expression I am dis-satisfied as it may not exactly fit with my way of perceiving her ideas. And now I question her intentions.

How long can one imagine alas Neptune ? Boundaries no doubt dissolved, I feel (neptune again). I continue to love her for the kind of feel and transformation brought within myself. Whether she communicate or not is immaterial. What matters is all those good feelings that changed my very outlook of life. I feel so good and don't want to loose it.

I don't like the negative energy being developed with me as I question her intentions. This energy can kill all those good tranformative feelings. So I decided to blocked myself (very painful to do that indeed). She has to communicate if she really wants my friendship. Else that's the end of it and I continue to imagine the way I feel about her. Afterall, 7 months is too long a wait. Is not it ? We have very very strong synastry contacts that I dont want to elaborate now. Thus I hang on to this relation. Don't find a way to escape though I tried a lot and she tried even more I believe. In both of our charts, water element is predominant.

No developments with property and career.

Love
Kris

[primamateria]

Kris, I really feel for you as I read your words about this relationship... all I can offer by way of comfort though are the words that have got me through this past two years - "whatever it is you want from others, give it to yourself".

love pm

[Juliet]

Whatever it is you want from others, give it to yourself

I fully agree, Prima!
I was in a Neptunian relationship (comp Sun, Venus, AC, Nept AC in Scorpio) for five years, which did not bring me any commitment/earthy happiness, which I do want in a relationship. (everyone's needs differ)
Then I decided to love myself first, and act accordingly in sexuality and relationships, choose differently, and things changed quickly.

I am in a relationship now which does not always bring starry eyed Neptunian dreamy bliss, but I am structurally happier and healthier because of it.

Love , Juliet

[Aphrodite]

Oh, I really like that saying PM! It is a different outlook from the old "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." Now it is "Do unto yourself as you would have others do to you." This is a very healthy reminder to not forget to take care of yourself.

I needed that today. THANKS!

Love, Aphrodite

[primamateria]

you're very welcome... on examination of my relationship history I realise that I've long been attracted to men who don't want a relationship with me... given how strongly I've 'wanted' one, this is not surprising! (the universe has a habit of giving precisely what you ask for - keep saying 'i want' anything and the universe will keep showing you 'I want'!)

so my remedy is to be in a good relationship with myself and to recognise that I have all the love that I need, always.

actually, I have noticed how I am lonelier when 'in a relationship' - probably because I tend to lose myself and also because I'm expecting to have certain needs fulfilled by another. Dangerous!

ok, confession time over

pm