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Post by gemstar on Apr 23, 2006 18:41:33 GMT
Hello Amoroso...Ok, I read up a bit here and and now interested in how the quindeciles work for us!
It was a cool discovery to find my natal Node and Venus quindecile my ASC and nearly close to my Neptune, though 3 degrees may be pushing it a bit. As you asked on the other thread, my natal Saturn 5th PIS is exactly quindecile my natal VIR Uranus and Pluto conjunction in my 10th. You had asked about axis degrees....does that count for anything? Having my name asteroid quindecile my natal Sun might be something because it also falls on the 2nd house beginning axis SAG 15 degree....and my n Sun 165 degrees away in my 8th. Pars Fortunae is just 2 degrees away from that name asteroid as well.....it seems to be a secret spot in my chart!
Please give us a write up on your findings from your book.....this is fascinating!
Hugs- GemStar
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Post by Amoroso on Apr 23, 2006 20:05:18 GMT
Hi Gemstar,
I actually wanted to follow up on this thread today--you and I have obviously tuned in on the same frequency over the past few days!! And I noticed that Juliet is back on the forum helping Cat with her horary. Must be an 8th house Gemini Sun thing....
Ricki Reeves was a student of Noel Tyl and her book, "The Quindecile: the Astrology and Psychology of Obsession" is one of the first books out there on the subject. She begins the book defining obsessive and compulsive behavior as "recurrent obsessions or compulsions sufficiently severe to cause marked distress, be time-consuming, or significantly interfere with the person's normal routine, occupational functioning, or usual social activities or relationships with others. She talks about those periods of time when everyone experiences these things due to living at this time in this culture, and the varying degrees of intensity that push someone into dysfunction. "The effects of this can results in a wide range of possibilities: from a consummate drive to reach certain goals for an eventual positive outcome, to a complete fixation that blocks out everything else and propels us into a life that is completely devoted to that which is unattainable..."
I found that I have natal Pluto-Jupiter conjunction in 10th house Leo quindicile my Chiron/Eros in 4th house Aquarius. And I am not sure I could have seen what a a tremendously intense, obsessive energy this is except for the gift of time and coming to terms with myself in this year of the Chiron return.
As Reeves says, "When (these energies) are well-managed, they reflect great towers of inner strength and power."
She writes of that Leo-Aquarius Quindicile that I mentioned above--
"Heat of passion linked to social change. Resists and retains. Stubborn within the "fight" for acknowledgment of being right. The rules apply to everyone else, -just not to me because I know a better way--(WHY CAN'T I HAVE BOTH C AND MY HUSBAND? I WANT TO BE FREE TO LOVE WHOM I LOVE" --great example) Relationships extremely intense. Rebels for recognition. Difficulty letting go of others. Needs a "cause." Positive focus through charitable works."
Oh gosh. This IS me, to a t. Now, you add in the characteristics of Pluto, Jupiter, Chiron and Eros and you get a tornado.
The overall manner in which a quindicile may be expressed is determined by the planets and angles that are involved. She says that planets in quindicile aspect to the angels show themselves outwardly to others. The characteristics of these particular planets are "on display" for the world to see.
Personal planets in quindicile to other personal planets are incorporated more into the general personality. The characteristics of each planetary "leg" are blended into a singular dynamic through which the ob-com tendencies are channeled.
When personal planets are in quindicile aspect to societal planets, this indicates an opportunity to take a position or stand within the defining of trends and fashions of society of that particular time.
Outer planets in Q to other outer planets are part of the evolutionary cycle of our societies and humankind in general.
It is interesting that I was reading this book over the past few months as we had the new music room built, because I had to sort through a million papers to get ready to move into the new space, which now contains my office, too. And I had a "paper trail" as it were, of what my own Q has meant. It is a bit like reading an overachievers resume, and I stared at things as if it had been some other person who had accomplished these feats in her field, And then, of course, there was having the children and becoming a parent (also on the 4th-10th axis) and dealing with Chiron in the 4th-the wound in the womb which made child bearing almost impossible. But it happened! And coming back, surgery after surgery, to accomplish something else in my field--I am sounding obsessive talking about it, to I will quit. But I think you get the picture!
Reeves' book has many interesting case histories of the Q in synastry, but there's not a lot of text book descriptions of "My Venus Q his Mars," because she is assuming that the reader is familiar with the symbols and can just make a leap to what the intense connection might mean by sign and house. She does say that the obsession can go both ways only if each natal contains quindiciles. If one person has them, and the other does not, obsession won't go both ways.
C and I have them natally, and about a million of them in synastry. Including My Venus to his Mars. Keep the orbs tight--2 degrees or less, and probably only one degree for asteroids. She is very clear on this. If I can figure out how to post these charts again, I will post a horary asking "Is C as obsessed with me as I am with him?" You will grin at the chart!!!!
Well, hope this helps. It is a fascinating subject.
Blessings, Amoroso
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Post by whiteheather on Apr 24, 2006 15:23:45 GMT
Thanks Amoroso for bringing up this aspect! I had no idea it existed. I read the article by Reeves (thanks Kim), and ordered the book on Amazon. It goes for 22 cents, used. (I was able to "splurge" on a brand-new copy for less than 2 dollars.)
The interesting thing about this aspect is that it is a one-way street, I think. If you have a Q to someone's planet, it isn't reciprocated with that same planet because from that person's chart's "point of view" it would mean adding to the 180 degrees instead of subtracting. Unless I misunderstand something here. Help, Kim -- is this an aspect where we are sort of at the receiving end without feeling any impact?
Blueorchids, in that case it is interesting what you say, that you feel this overwhelming urge to communicate with Doc. Because it is his Neptune Q your Mercury, and not the other way around. That's weird.... Are you sure you don't have a Mercury Q to one of his planets? Or maybe there is some Asteroid involved that we don't know about yet?
Puzzled, Whiteheather
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Post by Amoroso on Apr 24, 2006 15:46:30 GMT
Hi WhiteHeather,
When you get the book, take a look at the example charts she has on syanstry. Her point is that, if there are Q's in the natal, the Q in the synastry will be felt both ways, just like ALL synastry contacts. The chart doesn't guarantee that the feeling will be mutual, but all synastry aspects have the potential to go both ways, at different times, at the same times, or not at all.
C's Mars and DC line are 22 Capricorn. My Venus is 6 Cancer. That is a Q both ways (within the 2 degree orb.) See?
With a generational planet and a personal planet, like BO's Mercury and Doc' Neptune, it can go both ways. But maybe not at the same time!
Do you have examples in your natal we can look at?
Blessings, Amoroso
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Post by whiteheather on Apr 24, 2006 16:38:43 GMT
Hi Amoroso,
Actually I only have one in my natal (my chart is kind of a bowl), which is Venus Q Chiron, whatever that means.
But in a synastry, for example, a person's Eros in 20 of Libra Q my South Node at 4 in Aries. However, looking at my SN, I would only be making a Q to something in his chart if it were at around 20 degrees in Virgo. That's what I was trying to say. Whereas a trine is 120 degrees, give or take a few degrees, going in each direction. But with a Q you have to consider the movement of the planets which is in one direction. (Except the nodes actually move the other way, come to think of it....) But anyway, I am just speculating here. I can't wait to get the book... But in the meantime, you say that this aspect isn't felt simultaneously by both people? It's kind of a see-saw thing?
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Post by Amoroso on Apr 25, 2006 16:28:15 GMT
WH,
Unless I am completely missing the boat in regards to your question, that Q goes BOTH ways. His Eros Q your SN, your SN Q his Eros. It's like any other synastry contact and does not depend on the speed of the planets or the direction of the nodes. I think some astrologers have determined that waxing and waning aspects in syanstry can have varying degrees of intensity, but I will leave that to the experts. Aspects from planets can be read in either direction. The Sun at 20 Gemini will be conjunct by 1 degree another's Moon at 19 Gemini, or 359 degrees the other way around. You read aspects in both directions.
Am I missing something? DId I answer your question?
If you tell me what signs your Chiron-Venus Q are in, I'll post the blurb in the book for you.
Amoroso
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Post by whiteheather on Apr 25, 2006 23:51:12 GMT
LOL, Amoroso, I'm in stitches over here.... Have you ever twisted your brain into a pretzel? I just did... I don't know what it is with me sometimes... Must be the heat.
Whiteheather, rolling on the floor
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Post by alisa on May 12, 2006 18:52:24 GMT
I just find out more aspects: My Eros/Psyche MP quindeciles his Sun. His Eros/Psyche MP quindeciles my Moon. (My Moon quindeciles his Sun.) Kim said that "Eros/Pshyche MP awakens desire to merge, sexual energy is intense, deep and emotive. Transformation whether taboo or not." Then, we should feel sexual energy both ways obsessively , right? What do you think? Amorso, can you tell us the power of venus/mar quindecile in your synastry in real life? Actually, I am note quite understand the meaning of "obsessive/compulsive" much. I am Thai. My English is not good Alisa
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Post by Amoroso on May 16, 2006 18:16:51 GMT
Dear Alisa,
You English is very good! (Much, much better than my Thai!)
I am basically just reporting in what I am learning. I can not tell you whether or not these aspects are felt both ways.
According to the book I reviewed, the quindiciles in synastry are felt two-way only if there are quindiciles in each person's natal chart. If you do not have this intense aspect in your natal, you won't be pulled into the energy of the quindicile in the synastry, therefore, you might not experience the obsessive nature of the aspect. But that does not take into account the human heart!! A chart can not tell someone what or how they "should" feel!
I can tell you how I feel about the Mars-Venus quindicile in the synastry with this person, but, well, that's pretty much written all over Kim's forum for the past year and a half!!! But how he felt? I don't know. I can only guess based on the energy I felt coming from him, but nothing "happened."
That's all the info I have about synastry right now. I have been exploring what the quindicile in my own chart means. (And yes, he has this aspect in his natal many times, actually.)
Blessings, Amoroso
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