Sappho by House, Sign and Aspect

[Amoroso]

Dear All,

I've received permission from Kim to start this thread as an amateur researcher.

Please list your natal Sappho position by house, sign and aspects, and let us know how you feel this asteroid has had any influence in your life. You can include other people you know well enough to make comments upon.

I am interested to know if anyone has noticed what happens when there are transits of Sappho to natal planets and asteroids.

Here is a compilation of Sappho in astrology from published assesments by Donath, George, Bloch and Lang-Wescott:

"Sappho signifies aesthetic refinement; the desire to bond deepl;y with or feel the same way as others, educations of females in the fine arts; emotional extremes in love; friendship needs; poetic ability; romatic and artistic sensitivity; same-sex bonding that exceeds ordinary friendship; the sensitization of individuals to their sexuality; sensuality; the sharing of aesthetics, artistry, interests and values...Inharmonious use of energy means difficulties in forming close friendships, loneliness, trouble balancing intimacy needs with other areas of the personality..."

I will add my own information here later tonight or tomorrow, as well as add to Sappho in synastry.

Thanks and have fun!!!

Blessings,
Amoroso

[Kris]

Dear Amoroso,

I felt very good finding this thread. Why ? To get the answer, I looked at my natal Sappho. Ha, she conjuncts my AC lord Moon in Virgo in 3rd house. There are too many aspects as follows:

Conjunct AC lord moon (4 deg orb)
Conjunct Pluto (5 deg)
Square Sun,Sat,Mer (2-4 deg)
Semisextile Uranus (0 orb)
Trines Vesta (5 deg)
Trines Karma (1 deg)
Conjunct Psyche and Euphrosyne (4 deg)

I find it really difficult to segregate the influence of Sappho because of too much connectivity the AC lord Moon is receiving from other planets as well as asteriods.

Anyhow I can point to certain issues strictly from the list you quoted as the domain of Sappho.

Hormonious: The desire to bond deeply with or feel the same way as others, friendship needs; romatic and artistic sensitivity; artistry, interests and values.

Inharmonious: Loneliness.

The above issues are predominant in my life.

I am not sure about Virgo's influence on Sappho. My Moon is already overdoing with so much of connectivity there. Any issue, I do analyse the things vigorously.

I put more in synastry thread.

regards
Kris

[mar]

Hi Amoroso

I too felt something close to home reading your post - I have never really looked at sappho in my chart but have now seen that she is within two degrees of my saturn at 10 43 aquarius, practically sitting on my 5th house cusp. There is also a square to my 2nd house Neptune in Scorpio.

Quite a lot of the areas mentioned resonate with me - infact they have been coming up in an astro tutor I had recently with Kim about a period of time ages ago in my life that I seemed to need to get in touch with now.

It was a time when I was very close to my best friend at university so much so that other people sometimes thought we were a couple. The friendship was very positive in many ways - I would say that my interest in the arts was very stimulated in that period for example and we both had a strong interest in music. But there was a conflict in that there was a feeling of restriction from the friendship that seemed to stop me from developing my relationship with my boyfriend at the time.

I find it interesting that I felt the need to look at that time of my life now so long afterwards as again this time period now ties up so much with the sappho issues. I think I have mentioned before on the forum that I am to start a fine art post grad degree this autumn - and funnily enough I do feel this is something that has taken me a long time to get round to ie I can feel Saturn's influence of it taking hard work and determination to reach this point. The last year or so has been a time when I have been very aware of the issues to do with my Saturn square to Neptune - but it is very illuniating to me to see that the issues I have been thinking about are so related to Sappho - then see her position conjunct Saturn!

Thanks alot for this post Amoroso - very interesting.

Will have to look further for the transits to and from Sappho - but will post something if I can find somethng relevant.

Mar

[svenskasfinx]

I was just thinking about the expression of the 5th house Sappho 16 degrees Libra- the placement that I have:

Mine is conjunct Bacchaus, Terpsicore and Veritas (490) (a small amount of research has been done concerning Veritas www.geocities.com/mahtezcatpoc/veritas.html and there was a thread started here as well)

all of these are less than one degree appart!

These aspects are fairly close to my South Node at 14 degrees some odd minutes in Libra.

But the person in question (and then a friend of his also) has a Sappho/Bacchaus conjunction. I don't actually know which house his friend's falls under) but the both of us have it in the 5th house.

I get the feeling it lends to friendships a blurry line between compainionship and romantic love.. and then at the same time brings about within LOVE relationships an importance to the emphisis of compainionship and deep friendship.

With its placement being in the 5th house there is a creative feeling.

I get the impression with a combination of Moon and Sappho in a wide conjunction in the 5th house in Aquarious makes more of an unavoidable feeling of a romantic nature with female friends.. but I could be wrong.

(the person in question who has Sappho in the 5th also has Venus in romanic Piscies in the 6th house and has earned his living writing, playing and singing romantic songs about disappointments in love most of the time but also of the optimisim and good feeling of the expression of love and friendship)

I have yet to earn a real living from my creative adventures, but friendships have always been a source of inspiration.. as well as love, and life itself, but I know its also my "Achilies Heel" because that which inspires me and makes me live also injures me and makes me most vunerable.

.. for example my son..I think in my nightmares when I am threatened one of the things I notice is that no one can touch me, but then they convince me to do their bidding due to my love for my son; I notice I end up fighting just the same, but even more so, inspite of the threats.

I have read Sappho is that place where our feelings are most vunerable, I suspect with a Moon conjunction with the Bacchaus on the same degree, that is a very very uncomfortable vunerablity, and yet extacy.. and mania.. much like the Dionysus contact.. (seeing that Bacchaus was the other version of Dionysus and yet different in the spiritual sense.. more of the tactile world I suppose)

But what of Sappho in the 5th house? What does it mean in relation to the person?

Seeing that I have both Eros (23 degrees exactly conjunct Ceres)and Sappho here (as well as Erato at 11 degrees Libra) it gives me the feeling I can't exactly ever get away from any kind of activation of the 5th house.. (or is it expression) toss in the fact that Juno is at 27 degrees conjunct Karma and Adonis (another one like Dionysus in a way) there seems to be a story here as to the progress or contact of love and or expression of creativity which ends as being a kind of work that is constantly is "killed and reborn"..

(this speculation is just an idea)

Someone else I know has Sappho in Leo in the first house a few degrees from the ASC (in Cancer)conjunct Vesta (she has Eros in the 5th house conjunct Venus and Pluto (in scorpio) At this moment that 17 year old girl is a creative genious (although I wouldn't want to call her a little girl really)-- I mean yes there is alot of emotional intensity and interesting views on relationships with both men and women.. (Like Sappho would sugest conjunct with Vesta) and then she has Phaethon (3200) right on her ASC at 0 degrees Leo.

With Sappho in the first house I would have to worry though about the self destructive nature of Sappho when love is unrequited.. as well as the placement of Phaethon on the ASC in the first house... I feel if she activates more in a Vesta way, when dissapointed (and at a young age, who ISN'T disappointed with Love?) that she will survive quite easily with great independence (and although very very interested in sex we come to find she is still a virgin ) (Sappho in conjunction to Vesta again I would think: her sexuality is her own, even at this early age where peer pressure is so much)



I will go to the Synastry page for the other observations I have made with Sappho in relationships..

Just putting it out here, without much real research.. please forgive my mania and scattered nature..

take care,

svenskasfinx

[gemstar]

I LOVE my Sappho in 7th house Taurus!!
Thanks for starting this awesome thread-I have been interested in learning more about this asteroid!

Here are My Taurus 7th House positions-

Venus- 23'24 Taurus
N Node- 24'56 Taurus
SAPPHO- 26'59 Taurus
Juno- 29'45 Taurus
Ceres- 0'03 Gemini

Mid-points: ALL in Taurus 7th House

Juno/Node 26'40
Ceres/Node 26'49
Venus/Ceres 26'43
Venus/Juno 26'34
Mercury/Chiron 24'15
Mercury/Saturn 25'49
Moon/Chiron 26'10
Moon/Saturn 27'44

I decided not to add in all of the other aspects...the list would be much longer than it currently is!!

Please share with me your thoughts of what the surrounding stellium says to you about this Sappho??

There was another thread back-a-ways where someone stated that there was an echoing 'wheel ' effect that my chart displayed.

Further 'spokes' on this wheel:

Sun 29'04 Gem 8th House
Amor 27'11 Gem
Erato 22'29 Gem

Moon 26'09 Can 9th House
Mercury 22'19 Can

So possibly my Sappho is part of a 'motion' of sorts that is reflected within my 3rd quadrant. What does this actually say??

Often I have been told that my being/connecting with people or talking to them has a healing effect. Maybe I have the ability to calm people down....despite my Scorp Asc passionate personality!!
I care about people tremendously-it is innate.

Do my words that I choose and the manner in which I deliver them make the difference here? Maybe. My voice tone? Perhaps. I have a very emotionally driven voice in that my emotions are evident and can be sing-songy. Meaning...I do not drone whatsoever! How boring would THAT be!! ZZzzzzz.... ha,ha. My Gem Sun would never allow it!

When aspected with another male interest, I have found that my
Sappho 'lights up' and pours out the emotion and love. My current interest has the following 3rd house Venus stellium sitting directly on my 7th house Venus stellium:

Amor 29'04 Taurus
Venus 29'43 Taurus 3rd House
Pandora 29'52 Taurus
Eros 2'49 Gemini
Pan 7'20 Gemini
IC 8'41 Gemini

I enjoy writing letters/notes and talking for hours with him. His Eros in Gemini absolutely LOVES it!! The time FLYS and the letters I have written have been so incredibly soulful.... it profoundly amazes me. I often wonder where the words came from as I re-read them. Once Sappho's faucet is turned on...look out! Whoosh!! ;D

I have watched him intently open a letter with an intensity of concentration...reading and absorbing all that I have conveyed.
No distractions allowed. He has a Pisces Asc (10'43) and with his Pisces Moon (16'25) conjunct (surrounding his Sappho at 13'01 Pis, incl. his Venus/Node MP 13'15 Pis)....I feel that he is always deeply moved by my words.

However, his Gem Merc squares his Pis Moon in wide orb and he has great difficulty in verbalizing these deeper feelings. How frustrating is that for his Gem Sun and Gem Merc? How frustrating is that for MY Gem Sun?? (And Cancer Moon sensitivity?)

Possibly my Sappho/Venus stellium conjunct his stellium creates a feeling of vulnerability within himself. A feeling of being exposed somehow? Pisces influenced people often become quiet when this feeling of vulnerability is stimulated. HOWEVER.....his Gemini Eros revels in the attention...maybe his Pan freaks out due to the emotions evoked by Pandora opening the Venus/Amor doors....are these possibilities evoked from my Venus/Sappho stellium connection to his?

Any thoughts here??

Often I communicate the deeper emotions on behalf of us both and we have developed an understanding that goes beyond words. This intuitive connection conveys a 'Peace' that is fluid between us. I have asked him if my written intensity has ever bothered him and he has stated-"Never, not once". He occasionally hides but never for very long....I feel like he enjoys the deepness of this intimate style of communication and swims around basking within it's lovely depth.

Sappho rocks the world (second to Eros) in my eyes! Any thoughts??

Hugs-


GemStar

PS-Interesting note, the 'Dancer' asteroid...I can't remember the name, is located near this stellium in my 7th. I LOVE to dance Argentine Tango and am extremely passionate about it in every way!! What a fantastic dance to express Sappho's magic!!

[svenskasfinx]

gemstar said:

.."PS-Interesting note, the 'Dancer' asteroid...I can't remember the name, is located near this stellium in my 7th. I LOVE to dance Argentine Tango and am extremely passionate about it in every way!! What a fantastic dance to express Sappho's magic!!"

Is it asteroid number 81- Terpsicore you speak of? I think it would be really active in a sign like Taurus in the 7th house-

Here's an example of mine:


The South Node is in there too at 14 degrees 22 minutes Libra (that would be an exact conjunction with Bacchaus I guess)



take care,

svenskasfinx

[gemstar]

Good Morning svenskasfinx !!!

YES-That is the name of the "Dancer" asteroid....How interesting that you have it near your Sappho as well! Well-exactly conjunct!! With the creativity from its 5th house placement...along with those other placements....(Oh-Eros transiting that whole area!!Wow...), how has this shown in your life?? I realize you are a musician and wondered about this asteroid presenting throughout your career?

Hugs-
GemStar

[AR]

Hi All,

Just wanted to jump in here. My Sappho is conjunct my Descendant in Leo opposite my Ascendant. She certainly pertains to relationships with me. I have a strong desire to share the attributes of Sappho as noted by Amoroso above. Sappho has a very strong effect on me. She manifests as very passionate and romantic, poetic, etc. especially regarding partnerships or even my own projections. Saturn will be conjunct my Sappho soon, also opposing Chiron (on my Ascendant) This should be an extrordinarily memorable transit. I will let you all know how it goes when I am on the other side of it. If nothing else, I am sure to find a lot of authenticity!

A.R.

[svenskasfinx]

gemstar said:

Good Morning svenskasfinx !!!

YES-That is the name of the "Dancer" asteroid....How interesting that you have it near your Sappho as well! Well-exactly conjunct!! With the creativity from its 5th house placement...along with those other placements....(Oh-Eros transiting that whole area!!Wow...), how has this shown in your life?? I realize you are a musician and wondered about this asteroid presenting throughout your career?

Hugs-
GemStar

Hej GemStar!

I'm not exactly a musician, but I realize as Amoroso says about being so much 5th house stuff that it would express itself in projection if I didn't use the energies myself..

I used to play in a band, (bass but also have been a drummer) yes but hardly called myself a musician although I have been involved with music and precussion as well as singing (and reading music from a very young age and taught myself how to play clarent so well I joined the school band, in the advanced band after having only played by myself and with music I'd never heard before but only read) (I think I relate this to my Saturn/Vesta/Eurtrope (asteroid number 27) placement in the 11th house of "groups and friends")

I am in fact a visual artist who combined music to create performance/conceptual art ( I am using the another end of the visual arts, my painting and drawing skills, just recently so I'm going backwards a bit or forwards to word inspired art )

But as far as projection goes this is the deal I discovered: Almost all of the men I have ever had a relationship with have been musicians, that is up until Chicago where I ended up becoming friends with an actor (who had a real love for music but no skills in that area) and ended up moving in with him as a friend and a room mate, and eventually a lover, which went totally wrong for me

Needless to say I haven't been around that much in the arena of dating and experiences but to notice that pattern with musicians was kind of a wake up call.. and yet when I tried to break the pattern I found myself in a harder situation.

A musicaly trained man who was quite a lot older than me had an interest in me just due to the fact he could see within me "the musician" and noticed the artist and wondered how the two of them could actually get along inside one person.. (he had been schooled at Juilard so I could "trust" he knew what he was talking about)

There are many levels to music as there are to art--- some of them are simple and some are complex.. and with the "creative asteroids" in the "creative house" It falls back on me an awareness of being "the Artist's Artist"..in other words the only people who have ever bought my work were in fact other artists..

I wonder if someone will buy my songs?
www.myspace.com/5thhouse

anyway.. yeah I just thought I'd babble about that..
Sappho conjunct Terpsicore seem to enjoy dancing together in any case- (although I like to dance I don't think I'm much of a dancer, but a movement artist)

take care,
svenskasfinx

[Amoroso]

Dear Svenskasfinx,

Sorry it's taken me awhile to get back to this thread. I listened to your link--wow, what amazing, hard-core drive and energy your music has!!! I felt like it really expressed frustration--MY frustration about the relationship (or non-relationship--we'll see) with C. So thank you for that! Did you sing and play all the instruments?

I know many musicians who are also visual artists. I haven't really "done"anything for awhile, but I am totally into the Art Quilt movement. I remember that traditional quilting used to make me very angry whenever I tried to do it, and when I discovered the world of art quilts and painting on fabric I just went nuts!

A blurb about Terpsichore--I don't think this asteroid has to do solely with dancing and movement. I think it may also have to do with any rhythmic, athletic coordination such as singing and certain sports such as skating, gymnastics, etc. Just a hunch.

More soon on Sappho.

Blessings,
Amoroso

[gemstar]

Well Amoroso...you may be correct about Terpsichore...I was voted MOST Athletic Girl in my Senior High School class of 800 students!! Somehow I have always been able to play most sports extremely well...with no practice!

A few years ago, I went to some goofy Bowling party-hadn't bowled for nearly 20 years and hit 6 strikes in a row!! Ha-ha..actually-I was embarrassed!! Who wants to be good at Bowling?? Hee-hee.....In Junior High I was the All-County Free-throw Champion...in one of the largest counties in Florida at the time...and never ever had played basketball on a team!! Go figure!!

Thank you for the additional insight....I wanted to give those examples to back up your information! Right on the Money!! The dancing is still high on my list of loves though!!

Hugs-
GemStar

[svenskasfinx]

amoroso said:

I listened to your link--wow, what amazing, hard-core drive and energy your music has!!! I felt like it really expressed frustration--MY frustration about the relationship (or non-relationship--we'll see) with C. So thank you for that! Did you sing and play all the instruments?

Hej Amoroso!

I didn't at all expect to end up talking about that link, I wrote and sang, but since those are live links (even songs I wrote save for one that was on a tribute album and one that I co-wrote but it was supposed to be a portrait of "me" by someone else..)

in the things from the early 90's the funny thing was it was in a band where I was together with one person, then he replaced me with another bass player because I could play the drums, (I then eventually after a huge disapointment ended up having a relationship with that same bass player ) so I was playing in that band, and then suddenly they formed a band and got another drummer.

Now this was a move that took more than 5 years, it all shifted but the origianal music was played (bass) and written by me. "United Germany" was written suddenly when my band was a small three member band.. before our real drummer "Sal" left for school in Europe (strangely enough I'm now in Europe ) so we had been looking for someone to fit that empty space he left for a long time.

I still play bass, I tried to really learn guitar, but only was fair. I recently sang (recent meaning a few years ago a spring festival with Harry Belafante mix)

That aside I think Sappho in the way it was expressed may have a touch of my Mars nature in it.. in that song "Uncooperative" I wrote that after a friend who begged me to give him a place to live ran out on me and my other friend without paying anything and leaving me to be evicted...It may sound like a romantic song about frustrations in lack of communication (thats how it reads when I listened to it years later)

It made me think about what you said about compostites (a while back) very very carefuly and about how friendships and any relationship could appearl like a "romantic" chart. I was in agreement because some of the feelings can be the same when a friend disapoints you and make you feel betrayed.

I feel Sappho is like that in some friendships as well.. you know that something special about your friends that make it as satisfying as a romantic situation but also how a friendship can also disturb a romantic stituation because they can also demand so much.

With my 5th and 11th house oppositions (the house rulers being conjunct in the 1st house with the Sun) I don't doubt my life will be still concerning ballancing that Friendship/Romantic relationship vibe.

If anything if it were all more 7th house at home this may not be an issue. But my son still is (5th house) as well as my "artistic goals". With Jupter coming to visit Sappho and the others soon, what kind of challanges do you thing I should expect? Anyone can answer that.. maybe I should do it on a "Jupter transit the 5th house thread"

Thanks for your comments everyone and taking the time to listen to some of my past projects.

(remember though when you say "drive and energy" I think to my First house Mars (Eurtrope conjunct Vesta (and Saturn) in Aries in Quintile in the 11th) I suppose that is a distinct independant and Mars/Aries vibe..

Take care all,

svenskasfinx

P.S. Gemstar- I think we may have to update our Terpsicore thread or create one in addition to the Muse Thread since Terpsicore is such an inspiration..

[sielou]

Hej igen!

I have got (born 3 feb 1974 in Stockholm at 9.28 am)

Sappho in 15.41 Cancer in my forth house.

In opposition to my
Lilith 19.03, Pallas 14.10 och Psyche 12.43 in Capricorn.

It squares my
Chiron at 17.01 Aries and my midpoint between my Sun in Aquarius 14.08 & Moon in Gemini 23.31.

My Sappho also squares my Vesta in Libra 16.42 sextiles my Mars in Taurus 17.15. And sesquisquaring my Mercury in Pisces 0.37.

[Amoroso]

Just a couple of more thoughts on natal Sappho.

First of all, Svenskasfinx wrote "With Sappho in the first house I would have to worry though about the self destructive nature of Sappho when love is unrequited.."

I don't think Sappho has a self-destructive nature, unless, like all planetary energies, she can't express. Evident ally the current academic consensus is that the real Sappho never did jump off a cliff due to unrequited love. However, in her original Greek, she did coin the phrase "sweet-bitter" to describe both unrequited love and being absent from the loved one, and we now use the phrase "bittersweet" to describe one of the many planetary influences from the asteroid.

I think those of you who have her in conjunction with other planets/asteroids, have done a pretty good job trying to describe her influence.

I think I wrote on the thread "Musings on Sappho" where she is in my chart and why she is so very important to me.

Liz Greene talks about how those born with the Sun in the 8th or 12th house need to have as their primary purpose in life a way to express the collective unconscious or they will become physically ill. She describes the Sun in the 8Th's primary purpose is to merge or collide with parts of the collective for the purpose of "transforming" the part of the collective whose lives one touches into something else. With an 8th house Gemini Sappho sitting on the midpoint between 8th house Sun and 9th house Venus in Cancer, I have finally realized that it is through her consistent and creative expression that I can keep myself well. While I have a life time of

It really is a "table legs" effect, because my Sun forms a trine to my Chrion/Eros conjunction. So it is not only the teaching and founding arts' organizations and partnerships with other women and for girls' arts' education (don't worry, I work with plenty of men, too!!!--that's how I met C.) and singing, which welds sound (venus and Mercury) to poetry, but combing Sappho and Eros in erotic writings, diaries and letters.
The letter I wrote to C was such an expression of Sappho that he probably is just recovering now! And I feel that it had to be done, and was such a perfect expression that I felt enormous liberation. I've never allowed myself to express verbally like that before, and it has been locked up in me for over 25 years. My husband doesn't want to hear "any of that."

Other examples of the writing are on the Eros and Marriage thread.

That's about it for now.

Blessings,
Amoroso

[Juliet]

Hi to you all!
I'm still recovering, a lot better than three weeks ago, but I've been following this thread and Amoroso, your post finally had me push the 'quote'-button.

My Sappho is in 8, conjunct Eros, Psyche, Lust, Jupiter, and for me it's difficult, not to mention impossible, to differentiate between these energies. I know that erotic love evokes phobic reactions in me now that I'm more in touch with me, and I also realize that expressing my passion in myself and in creativity certainly is not enough, although I've tried it extensively. I nééd erotic partnership, erotic union. I'm really not sure how to get there though. From here.
Transits are hard to decipher.

The energies come not without the other. They're pretty close to Merc/Mars/Sun too, all in 8. Venus is in 8 too, 12 degrees removed! Maybe we should start a post on 8!

From time to time I feel pulled 'back' into a black hole of crisis and transformation. Back usually turns out to be 'forth', and it invariably starts off with illness or an accident.

Amoroso, your quote of Liz Greene feels right and true to me, but I have to confess it just is a strong feeling, I really could not tell in my own words what she (and you) exactly mean there. Maybe it's an odd question, but could you please 'translate' it for me? I would be most thankful.

I only know that I get ill or get accidents when I'm not being authentic and painstakingly true to myself, while other people can lie to themselves for years on end and nothing acute happens to them. When I was younger my whole body got covered in a fiery rash when I felt something 'off' in a place,and it could happen within half an hour. And something 'off' was NOT simply not at ease, or tense.
It's scary, there's so much raw power to this mechanism, but it's beautiful too.

But again, to be honest, I do not have an inkling what 'expressing the collective unconscious' means in day to day terms. I really don't. Maybe there's the solution to all my trouble...

There's a piece missing in your post:
'While I have an lifetime of'... Do you remember what you wanted to tell there?

Thanks!
Juliet