Persephone exactly conjunct Ascendant

[ScorpioRising]

Hi,

i have scorpio rising at 19 degrees. that conjuncts fixed star serpentis, which happens to be malefic (19 degrees is an "accursed" angle).

Recently I found out that persephone exactly conjuncts my ascendant! Persephone is also known as Proserpine and the asteroid Proserpine exactly conjuncts my descendant!

Does that mean I have to be wary of Hades-like guys?

[Kim Falconer]

Hello there!

Is there any question about your birth time? I would check that thoroughly as a minute or two could change the degree on the Ascendant. If it is accurate, well, yes, you have Serpentis rising. Ivy Goldstein Jacobson, an extraordinary woman and important astrological voice of the 20th century, said, “Serpentis at 19 Scorpio, designated by “charubel” as the ‘cursed degree of the accursed sign, denoting one who may be a pest and a terror …unless overruled by benifics.”<br>
Now, don’t panic! Charubel was translated in the early 1900’s in a time where wording and distinctions were fatalistic, underscored. He was referring, also, to horary figures more than natal qualities…very much a good/bad, black/white approach.

Serpentis is strength, strength and wisdom. There is potency, magic and power. Of course it can be misused. The important thing to remember is that the symbols of the planets, points and fixed stars coincide with ENERGY, just as it is. If you avoid labeling it with ‘good’ or bad, ‘malefic’ or 'benefic' attributes, you have a better chance at getting to the core meaning!

I have Caput Algo exact on my mid-heaven though I have thus far avoided a public beheading! The Medusa did turn men to stone, and lost her head in the end, though from her also sprung Pegasus, and her blood was a healing elixir. Energy, just as it is!

I think we ALL have to be aware of Hades type guys!! (lol)

Seriously, Persephone rising and Proserpine descending is auspicious to me. It is quite a link to the mythology of a descent into the underworld (or an abduction) and the resultant rise and transformation.

To me both these asteroids represent an importance in how you handle separation, change, confrontation and union. To bond with one person, we leave another behind on some level, be it leaving mother for the man, sister for the friend, father for the son, husband for the lover. We let go of one contact enough to let in someone new. Does this theme make any sense to you?

What is your closes major planet rising? Where is Jupiter? Pluto? That, and your chart ruler will shed light on how you use the energy of Serpentis in you life.

Thanks for the questions and comments. Welcome to the forum!

Blessings,
Kim

[ScorpioRising]

Hi Kim!

Thank you so much for answering my questions! I really appreciate it!

North Scale is at around 19 degrees scorpio too... and is precessing at a rather slow rate. 1997, being a very auspicious year for me, was used as a gauge to determine if my ascendant is really at 19 degrees scorpio... And it worked. I don't think there's any error in my birth time

It is enlightening to know that asteroids are by no means fatalistic indicators of our destiny. The use of the word "energy" is great... as it leaves us in a pretty much proactive state.

According to some websites, Persephone is ruled by Virgo (?). Frankly speaking, the energy of Persephone doesn't seem "auspicious" to me at all. Mainly because I have strong ties with my parents, and the persephone myth got me a bit worried. Demeter (Ceres) is 19 degrees Cancer in my natal chart and that trines persephone and sextiles porsepine (!!!). Maybe I should watch out for transits or people with a strong planet at 19 degrees Pisces... because that will complete the grand trine

Separation to me has always been an easy task. Uranus is in my first house but conjuncts my ascendant at a wide orb (10 degrees). Probably that helps me in detaching myself from relationships. Pluto, the ruler of scorpio, is in the 12th house. And I am a natural loner. On a few occasions, I had brief and intense encounters with the opposite sex, however, I withdrew contact shortly after by simply disappearing from their lives. The separatist tendency in me is quite strong, perhaps due to my fear of being hurt.

Kim, would it be possible for you to show us your natal chart?

[Kim Falconer]

Hello Scorpio Rising,

That is interesting, your strong ties with your family and the “brief and intense encounters with the opposite sex”. It does sound a lot like Persephone to me! She was very closely bonded to her mother and certainly had an intense encounter with Pluto in the underworld! The whole issue seemed a tug-o-war between Mother and lover, though it took Zeus’s intervention to finally create some balance.

I think that Uranus in the first needs a lot of freedom in relationships. You don’t want to be trapped! And yes, when you decide to “bolt” you do…no explanation necessary!

So, to me, the Persephone/Proserpine myth is relevant, especially linked with the strong Uranian first house. Strong will! The ways and means of honoring both your desire for union and your desire for freedom is part of the journey!

Does anyone else have Persephone on an angel?

Oh, I generally don’t give out my chart, though I do share components that are relevant to discussions or aspects that might help students understand current transits etc.

Warmly,
Kim

[kiyomi]

Hello
I checked my chart and i have both Persephone and proserpina on angles!. Persophone is in the 4th house conjucnts IC(6 degree orb), Proserpina is on DEC conjucts (3 degree orb) also
Saturn in the 7th house...... i don't know if 3-6 degree orbs are too wide... or can i still consider them conjucnt
angles?

I have no idea what it represents as it is the first time
that i found this fact in my chart. i am bit surprised as both asteroids are on angles. one being in the 7th house, dose it mean that my partner is somewhat like
"proserpina"?- scorpion like?

For me separation issues are always very difficult.
i have neptune rising and ascendant ruler Jupiter is in the second house/capricorn. i can't let go people or situation so easily as i feel very attached to them.

How can i interpret Persophone in the 4th/IC... if the 4th house is who you really are, i am Persophone-like?
but what kind of qualities are evident in this asteroid?

I'd appreciate any insights for this Persophone/persorpina placement in my chart.

[Kim Falconer]

Hi Kiyomi,

It is interesting that you have both these asteroids on angles (wide orb) as well!

First up, we have to remember that there are thousands, THOUSANDS, of asteroids. They add subtle meaning, especially at times of intense transit or progression, though if we plotted them all, the horoscope would be a big black dot…so much of everything would become nothing. (at least, until our human minds can comprehend such immenseness) That is one reason why I would look at only very specific asteroids for specific reasons, and also keep orbs very tight.

I wouldn’t read your Persephone conjunct the IC, because it is 6 plus degrees away and in the next sign. I would consider it exactly opposite Pluto, however. That seems important to me. Pluto rules your natal 12th and is in the highly visible 10th house. I would “count” it conjunct your MC, being a major planet. Pluto themes of intensity, risk, danger, healing, research and extremes of all kinds lace into your relationship with the public, your social identity-career, mission, profession. The opposition from Persephone recounts Pluto’s very strong attraction (inspired by a dart from Eros) and the lengths he went to obtain his heart’s desire. Passion for career is a must!

Proserpina is in your 7th and 3 degrees from Saturn and the cusp. Because Saturn is so strong in the 7th (and in your chart in general—every major aspect pattern anchors to this point!) I feel that Saturn “takes up” most of what you experience in the 7th house. It’s themes probably dominate the area of socially significant, personal one-to-one relationships.

Then you have Neptune ruling the 4th, again, a strong planet in your chart being conjunct the Ascendant, though not a very “visible” one (being in the 12th…and just being Neptune. This deity loves to hide!) I get the feeling that when it comes to connections with family, husband and social ties, you ignite the natal Saturn-Neptune opposition. The theme is one of mystic vs pragmatist, unity verses self-sufficiency, merging vs separation and distinction. I am not surprised you feel intensely around issues of separation. With both Proserpina and Persephone involved, it adds to the feeling of needing to separate to find your own individuality yet being acutely aware of the bonds that must be severed to do so.

Your partner may or may not be “Scorpio” like, but I imagine your experience of relationship can get that way (deep, erotic, intense, murky). Saturn, of course, makes it very very important. It is an area of great learning and many tasks!

Persephone in the 4th may be a soft addition to hidden qualities in yourself. I would look back through the ephemeris and see when you had major planet transits to this point (remembering that they would also trigger the opposite planet, Pluto). Can you see a pattern emerge? What occurred at the times of conjunctions and oppositions? Do those events and changes coincide with more than Pluto? Because their myths are interwoven, it may be hard to make the distinctions here!

I would say, for now, that these two asteroids amplify your Pluto influence in the 4th and 7th (Pluto opposite IC, Pluto trine Descendant), bringing a sense of "meaningful surrender" to what "must be done" to become everything you can possibly be.

Does this make sense?

Warmly,
Kim

[tara]

Hi!

I've just found that my boyfriend's persephone conjuncts my acendant.(by one degree). Hmmm...
Not quite sure how to interpret this.

Also, my persephone conjuncts his mercury, exact.
I looked up all the asteriods Kim posted on another reply. I just looked for conjunctions between his and my chart, and low and behold, there were quite a few!

Astrology never ceases to amaze (and confuse) me!

My Amor conj.'s his venus - exact
His Psyche conj.'s my venus - exact
My Aphrodite conj his Ceres - 3'
His Adonis conj my nept - 2'
His Adonis conj my part of marriage - 1'

Any thoughts?

tara

[ScorpioRising]

Kim, what is the orb used for aspects to asteroids?

I've always thought the maximum orb to use is 2 degrees.

[kiyomi]

Dear Kim,
thank you for taking your time to answer to my questions.

I am surprised to know that pluto is a major planet in my chart as i alwasys thought it was neptune, yet thinking about my life well, it really makes sense.

As you say, pluto's themes of intensity, risk, danger, healing, and research and extremes of all kinds acutally sound very familiar to me. My life has been full of intensity and risks so far, and I am very interested in healing matters as well, but i have not found a way
to make it happen yet at this moment in my life.

i really would like to be involved in healing profession in the future but for now, i have no idea how i can make it happen and i think it is a long long way.


I don't think it is easy to handle pluto's energy as it is powerful planet. (can i think that since pluto deals with also sexuality, then sexuality issues are very important as well in my life?)..

Yes my relationship with my partner has very "scoripon" qualities as you say. (he has natal Pluto in the 8th house so this already shows that he's very plutonian already).


I am not quite sure when you say "meaningful surrender " to "what must be done". i think there are many layers of meaning in your sentenses, and i will ponder over it.

Kiyomi

[Kim Falconer]

Hi Everyone. I am going to answer these last three posts in one!

Tara, I don’t have time to go into much detail, but I can give you some ideas to get you started in the asteroid exploration. If others have direct experience with any of these synastry contacts, please jump in!

Remember, people are like permanent transits. Always look at the contacts as if they are waking something up in you!

His Persephone “awakens” your Ascendant in some way. Being around him could activate your sense of how you project out into the “the world at large”. Thoughts and feelings of unity/separation, loyalty and love may effect how you see yourself…how you “act” .

His Venus on your Amor could awaken your sense of pure, idealized love. Chances are you value and honor the same things.

His Psyche on your Venus adds more to the sense of compatible values. I think the same things give your both pleasure and security, and you both intuitively know it. The “psychic” connection is strong because you can, at times, see through the “veil”.

His Ceres conjunct your Aphrodite suggests that when he takes care of you, when he is being nurturing, it’s like lighting you up big time!

His Adonis on your Neptune sounds to me like you both have a dreamy, alluring, fascination for each other. What was it like when you met?

Adonis on the Arabic part of Marriage? Have you set a date?

You can take these contacts much further and deeper by thinking about what each of these deities wants, needs and has to offer, and then seeing what might happen if they wake each other up!

ScorpioRising? The issues of orbs is tricky. I am very strict with the Asteroids, except when I am not! I realize this is confusing. I look at exact to 1.5 degrees 90 percent of the time unless I see something that just acts so much like it is aspected, I have to acknowledge it. I have used up to 10 degrees of orb with Eros, because I have seen it “work”.

Rule of thumb is-kept them tight. Use 1-2 degrees in research and readings, though be open to the occasional wide orb when you see, undeniably, that it is acting like an aspect. You have to really know the planets or points involved to do this, so keep it tight while you are studying. I use much wider orbs with the major planets.

Interestingly, earlier century astrologers used to use orbs for the actual planets (so much for Satrun, so much for Venus) and not so much for conjunction, so much for square!

And Kiyomi, I wouldn’t be so sure that your involvement with healing is way way off in the future. You have Jupiter coming up to conjunct the Midheaven soon. I feel that will be a real boost of energy for you, a catalyst for a new career perhaps.

The most important thing now is to be open to new possibilities and ready to take a leap in the dark!

Warm wishes to you all!

Kim