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Post by kukuschka on Nov 3, 2006 19:13:54 GMT
Dear all, I am absclutely fascinated by the draconic chart, since I found it to be in synastry stunningly significant. So significant that often enough it sends shivers down my spine So I'd like to examine the connection between natal and draco. Besides the infos given in this forum and especially in this thread I have found a couple of websites on this topic. And theoretically I seem to understand what meaning the draco has compared to the natal, and how to understand aspects between them. But practically, I don't really get along with this. I mean, what I don't understand is, do i.e. conjunctions between draco and natal work out (practically) like the conjunction would be in the natal? And if so, does this maybe rather require some sort of awareness to "what lies beneath", or does it work without conscious attention? How do you interpret aspects between natal and draco? How do the show compared to aspects in the natal? I would really appreciate to hear your opinions on this. Thank you, greetings Claudia
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Post by Kim Falconer on Nov 3, 2006 21:35:22 GMT
Hi Claudia,
Why not give us one example of your 'natal to your natal Draconinc' contact and one example of your 'Draconic to Natal by synastry'. If one planet in these examples is a personal planet, from Moon to Mars, the interpretation will be more personal--the outer to outer planets being more generational or social. Tell us the signs the natal planets are in (I use primarily conjunctions within 1-2 degrees, so perhaps start with that) and the natal houses activated.
In this way, we can narrow down your query with an example. Ultimately, it is experience that will instruct you on how to apply theory practically. The place to begin is your own chart!
Warmly, Kim
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Post by kukuschka on Nov 4, 2006 18:57:16 GMT
Dear Kim, thank you for your kind answer. You are right about making it more concrete, so here are the ones which make me think about the most: First is my natal Saturn tightly (0.11) conjunct my draconic sun in cancer/11 (11 is the house of Saturn, Sun is in 8). I feel this should be an important one, but I'm not sure how to treat this. Like a "normal" Sun-Saturn-conjunction, or is it even more intense since Saturn applies to the "deeper me"? I would really like to explore this, because on one side I appreciate the qualities of Saturn, on the other I don't think that I live them like they are meant to be, I'm still the master of limiting and hindering myself since nobody else does ;D Besides my boyfriend puts his natal moon on this, and maybe this makes me think about this conjunction, because since I know him I gain deeper contact to my "true" myself, and it might be that I feel that something is "moving" me. Also I have with Sun trine and solstice Saturn some more Sun/Saturn signature in the natal. An example from synastry that makes my mind steaming is with my boyfriend: his natal Venus at 2.53 aquarius/6 conjuncts his draconic Mars at 2.54, and my draconic Pluto conjuncts them at 3.22 (also my natal Moon/Mars conjunction conjuncts them, so I also have Moon/Mars/Pluto, which leads to the same questions as above ). I feel that this Venus/Mars subject is somehow very important to him, related to the male identity and qualities, and that I might play some activating role due to the planets he "gets" from me there. And here also I wonder, if these contacts play out like a normal synastry contact, for instance would you interpret this like any Venus-Pluto-conjunction, or a Mars-Mars-conjunction? I still can't grasp the real meaning of the draconic planets, there is one (or rather more) binding element to the natal which I don't see yet. I would really appreciate your help in bringing more light into this "salad". Thank you so much. Many greetings, Claudia
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Post by waterman on Nov 13, 2006 10:47:36 GMT
In my natal chart, i have 7° Virgo Rising, Mercurius as chart ruler @ 22° Cancer
My (natal) draconic chart has rising of 20° Cancer... So again the importance of Mercury is accentuated...
I have True node @ 17° Taurus... My d Sun is at 16° Taurus... also conjunct my n Venus @ 18° Taurus... So Venus is also important, which doesn't surprise me... love plays an important part in my life (but i guess that is so for everyone)
My natal rising is conjunct with my d Pluto (9° Virgo)... In my natal, Pluto is in its own sign... Scorpio, just like Venus is in her own sign in my natal... both are intercepted in my natal chart, but not in the draconic...
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Post by kukuschka on Nov 13, 2006 21:03:02 GMT
Again I find these significant conjunctions between natal/draco and natal/draco/draco with important people in life somewhat spooky I really wonder why draconics do work so precisely, and what their presumptions are. Have you also experienced draconic Pluto being a powerful magnet? I found who gets caught by it once, will not be able to escape anymore ;D
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Post by waterman on Nov 14, 2006 5:19:12 GMT
Question When you do synastry Do you have to do that between ppl's draconic charts Or between draconic chart of person A and natal chart of person B and the other way around?
And which orb do you use I use an orb of maximum 3°
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Post by kukuschka on Nov 14, 2006 7:15:16 GMT
I do synastry between one natal and the other draco, to see what someone (the natal) has for the others soul (the draco) to "offer" to grow and develop, since this is where I find the significant connections. Connections between the dracos I practically only find between relatives, but hardly with people who you meet in your life by "free will". I can only assume what this could mean: the connections between the souls are where you come from, this is where you have to feel cozy and comfortable, where you feel at home. But to develop your soul further, you have to look out for "new impulses" out there, which can be found in the present natals. I also use an orb of 3°, though I found the conjunctions mostly even to be exact or very tight anyway. But it depends on the planets involved: for instance my father and my brother have their draconic moons conjunct at 4°, and I feel that they are definitely conjunct.
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Post by AquarianEssence on Nov 14, 2006 10:50:52 GMT
I haven't spent much time with draconic charts but I just cast a bi-wheel with mine and my husbands, both draconic and there are a lot of connections between our souls, old connections, I think.
Mars opposite Mars conjunct his Uranus Moon conjunct Mercury (It is my believe that Mercury and/or Gemini can show twin souls)
Sun-Moon conjunct Venus-Neptune, inconjunct Uranus, trine Pluto
Jupiter trine Moon
His IC @critical 9 Scorpio= my Asc/Pluto
Pluto trine Mercury
His Saturn is the solstice point of my D.Asc and in our natals, his Saturn is solstice point of my Ceres
Mars trine Saturn
There are many draconic-natal connections also, most important being his D. Sun-Moon opposite my Sun and his D. Saturn square my Moon. While you might think these connections would inhibit free expression of emotions, it is clearly just the opposite. We can share anything, even what we'd never usually share.
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Post by kukuschka on Nov 30, 2006 21:43:19 GMT
Hi aquarianessence (do I get a price for spelling this ;D) and all, these are impressive connections indeed. I think Sun/Moon conjunct Venus/Neptune speaks for itself, sounds like a big pot of glue ;D Somehow I didn't pay much attention to the draco-draco-chart, don't know why actually. To me the draco-natals seem the ones that actually cause the attraction, for drawing the soul to someone who makes development possible. Well I guess I already have difficulties to catch the full meaning of the draco, and at least I am able to feel the meaning of draco-to-natal, because I experience an overwhelming lot of them when examing important meetings in life. By the way, it seems to me that draco-natal-connections make a promise only, which can only be fulfilled when the natal-natal synastry speaks the same language. The sort of promise when you get to know someone and feel trusted and close and attracted, like you have known each other already for years. And which will rather have a bitter end or not begin at all, when the natals don't like each other that much. And draco to draco....I hardly can imagine HOW deep those connections are. Maybe thats why I avoid them. I have a sober cap moon, you know ;D I just examined the dracos with my boyfriend, and I like what I found: - my Moon/Mars conjunct his MC - his Venus conjunct my IC - our Psyche are conjunct (mine also conjuncts his natal Moon ) - Eros trine Psyche and Eros sextile Psyche - his dr. IC/MC is the same as my natal, but not conjunct Which I would interpret as our way is a common one... How would you weight the importance of the draco-draco synastry compared to the draco-natal? How important is it actually to have those? Or can there be a gorgeous natal-natal synastry without many draconic touches, and a deep, close and soulmate relation anyway? By the way I also found some connections which still seem to work with orb of 5°. What do you think? Dear Kim, I would still love if you have some insight on aspects between one person's natal and draco. Though in another thread you mentioned the difference of being woven and lying underneath, and I might get closer to it. Greetings, Kukuschka
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Post by waterman on Dec 2, 2006 1:16:00 GMT
The only Ex gf whose i chart i still have
There are indeed very strong interactions between her draconic chart and my natal and my Dr Chart and her natal...
I'm convinced...
The draconic chart does put another accent on someone's chart, but still the same...
Like having Sun in Taurus, Moon in Leo and Cancer Rising So my deeper being is A Taurus, My deeper emotional needs are represented by Leo... So my dSun is directed on building, consolidating while my dMoon is directed on being a star, on shining, on spreading my love on everyone, but with a egocentrical touch (it's Leo after all) But i do have Taurus and Cancer influences in my natal, so they could get messed up...
But it's fascinating to do research about it...
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Post by cpolk on Jan 22, 2007 7:01:41 GMT
I went looking for this because I had seen refernce to the draconic chart and didn't know what it meant.
not much changes in my chart - my north node is at 20 pis 15. because of the placement of my planets, only neptune and pluto change sign. that's interesting.
pluto is kind of a sleeping giant in my natal chart. it doesn't have any obvious aspects, so I often wondered why the heck I felt plutonian influences so strongly. but my draconic pluto sits at 5 lib 05 - and that is a huge contact point in my natal chart. I have a really tight stellium there that is part of a t-square with mars on the apex and chiron in opposition to the stellium. this fits a little better with the theme of Transformation that has run through my life - I have, at various times, made sweeping changes to my life. right now it's all about self concept and internal work--cleaning up the effects of a violent past, and accepting that there are some things I simply can't erase or eradicate - and boy, is draconic pluto's position ever calling that up for me.
Neptune ends up moving to 6 Sag 25, and what I notice there is that it squares my natal venus. dear me, and doesn't that explain a lot!
now I sit here and wonder about what this means for me, and how my awareness of this shift will guide me along what I'm trying to do.
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Post by flower on Jan 22, 2007 9:33:20 GMT
That all is interesting Athena. Something that's come to light lately is for example "aspects as levels of consciousness" (as I read mentioned elsewhere) or, more simply and in a different but similar way, something like a placement or wanting to understand a certain aspect of our lives popping up as a placement we hadn't noticed before. I think the understanding comes when we're ready. Your Draconic observation brings this to mind as recently I had been wanting to understand how Mercury ties into a vocation as opposed to what I'm doing now - or at least in conjunction with what I'm doing now. The answer was found in my Progressed chart as it shows Mercury involved in an interception in the 10th house (and why there is a "challenging impelling" to do it). I feel this knowledge only came to me as I was seeking to understand and asked. My "level of consciousness" getting this co-incided with understanding the Midheaven extension as taught by Noel Tyl in my natal and interceptions as Connie here has mentioned. I wouldn't have grasped it otherwise except for feeling "impelled". But aside from that which I hope is somewhat clear , I get a feel for your Mars as the apex of the T-square of your Chiron and Stellium with Draconic Pluto on the Stellium as I have Pluto opp. Chiron but Mars trine Chiron. I think this clearly shows a "healing" theme of some sort and like you it's obvious as in hindsite I can understand this better having already been through certain things. [i ]"accepting that there are some things I simply can't erase or eradicate - and boy, is draconic Pluto's position ever calling that up for me"[/i] I truly understand as just the other day I was listening to a radio psychologist tell a person who had been hurt very badly ..."you have been damaged and it will always be that way"I don't think this meant that the person is meant to maintain a "victimization" mentality, but the fact is, the person had been hurt and so there would need to be a reconciliation with that hurt and that nothing could take the fact of being hurt away. Pluto's transformations are sort of like the point of no return. We are changed, forever, now what? That's where thank goodness there are choices, esp. in perspective. "Neptune ends up moving to 6 Sag 25, and what I notice there is that it squares my natal Venus. dear me, and doesn't that explain a lot!" I have Venus opp. Neptune natally and it explains everything!...At least up until now...LOL "now I sit here and wonder about what this means for me, and how my awareness of this shift will guide me along what I'm trying to do" That is a lovely way of putting that you are open to new impute and willing to trust a process - like the internal one you mention. It's something I've had to learn to practice every single day. Another thing, particularily about Draconic charts, is that I feel it does bring out certain themes we cannot see just by the natal alone. For example a "Soul" (like the Draconic suggests) purpose was to work through some emotional stuff. Finding Draconic Uranus is conjunct my natal Moon helped this make more sense and that in having done the work I had fulfilled something important for my Soul growth and healing. I feel this is where astrolgy helps so much to make sense of it all. The process did feel completely unstable and erratic but the ends justified the means, even if in certain moments I don't want to accept what the psychologist said as far as accepting the pain in the butt of it all Best, Flower
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Post by kellyc on Feb 9, 2007 2:53:12 GMT
Hi everyone,
Draconic lunar returns have been studied but what about draconic planetary returns? My current draconic venus return is quite telling.
Kelly
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Post by primamateria on Feb 9, 2007 4:03:16 GMT
hey guys.... well I guess I could be your 'control' group in this - my natal and draconic charts are the same (my NN is 29.47 Pisces so nothing really moves).
I've yet to check to see if my Natal/Draconic charts contact anything significant in anyone else's Draconic charts - but I do see that all the important people in my life have major aspects from their Natals to my charts....
I'll have to remember how to do the Draco charts now, so that I can check.... thats the trouble with not having to do any actual calculations for my own!
joy.. pm
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Post by primamateria on Feb 9, 2007 4:06:57 GMT
ps Kim is there a program that calculates the Draconic chart? My pregnant brain can't cope with working out the Draco for you-know-who....! pm
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