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Post by Amoroso on Dec 24, 2005 19:11:47 GMT
Dear All,
This thread is to discuss all things Draconic. I would love to hear of others' observations.
The idea that there is a level working behind the operations of the natal, progressed natal, etc., is very intriguing to me. And while various levels of reality is nothing new, the concept that the stars could show this is just astounding.
My husband is a sun sign Capricorn, I am a sun sign Gemini. But when I first found out about Dracos and that he is a Draco sun sign Taurus and I am a Draco sun sign Libra, it just FELT more accurate. I suppose with Libra on my ASC, a Libra Sun would feel natural, but John has no other planets, asteroids in Taurus. And yet, in many ways, he acts like one. He even has a large head and beautiful, resonant speaking voice.
And last year, in the progressed Draconic charts of C and me, my Eros was conjunct his Psyche, and his Eros was conjunct my Psyche. Close enough to light the fires, but always at a level that couldn't be seen. Just imagine if those had been natals....
And now this transit of Pandora over my Draco Juno. How very interesting!
Amoroso
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 25, 2005 22:24:26 GMT
Thank you, Amoroso, for starting this thread. I too am very interested in the Draconic Zodiac. First, a little more history and background: The term “Draconic” chart or Zodiac comes from the Latin word for dragon—the Caput Draconis being the Dragon’s head or North Lunar Node. The “Cauda Draconis” is the dragon’s tail or South Lunar Node. We often think of the Nodes as Destiny, Karma (in Hindu astrology especially) and fate. The Draconic Chart exemplifies something quite potent about our choices and the consequence that follow—and how we respond. Like the North Node, it says something about where we are headed, if we choice to reach out, and like the South Node, it says something about where we have been, what is comforting to the soul. Think of it as the “purpose” behind who and what you are. How do we plot a Draconic Chart ( besides clicking “Draconic Chart” on a computer astrology program?) It is important to understand that the Draconic Chart is based on the Draconic zodiac and that Zodiac is based on the North Node at zero Aries. ALL Draconic charts are is a ‘turn of the wheel’ such that the North Lunar Node becomes 0 degrees of Aries, and all the planets then follow suit AS they stand in the natal. None of the angular relationships (aspects) or house placements change—only the zodiac behind them. Clear? So, a Draconic Chart is based on a frame of reference that measures the distance of a planet from the Moon’s North Node which is always place at 0 degrees Aries. (You subtract the N Node in degrees of longitude from 360 and then that difference is added to all the planets and house cusps.) Note:With DRACO ORBS, keep them tight! You are comparing a point in the zodiac here with another point in another system. I look particularly at conjunctions within one degree to 2.50 degrees for the most impact. Remember, all the planetary aspects in each chart are identical. What is going to be interesting is how the draco chart relates back to the natal, though it can be considered on its own in terms of the orientation of the signs. Draco positions, just like the tropical zodiac, have DWADS and Decans as well. Draco is just another way of expressing the 12 signs of the zodiac, so the division of 12 within each sign is the same. The main thing to keep in mind is the fact that there are TWO zodiacs here and they represent connections that otherwise would not be seen. The zodiacs (tropical and Draconic) set up a kind of “resonance” between them making us look at who we are what we are doing with are lives in a whole new way. Think your natal Draco chart as a layer of “soul fabric” that lies underneath the outward personality. You can’t see it, unless you dig deep. Like a silk lining of a jacket, we never think about it being there and it never really shows, yet it is a substance that makes the wearing of the coat more comfortable—and when the breeze flips up an edge and we get a glimpse of that contrasting colour and silky texture, we go “ahhh”. The Draconic chart is something like that. Notice right away, in this metaphor there is no “blending.” The Draconic chart is not woven into the natal chart like tweed. It is the satin underneath. Think about the Draconic chart and it’s relationship to the NODES. In this chart, the NN is ALWAYS Zero Aries and the south node is always 0 Libra. This is a major hint as to the meaning and purpose of the chart. Think about it. The Nodes, which have so much to do with unconscious patterns from the past and new conscious directions towards the future, are the point in the chart that says “This is where you have been and what is comfortable (South) and this is what you can experience if you reach out into the new and unexplored (North). The whole Draconic chart resonates with this theme—where we have been and where, with effort, we can go. Remember, everyone has the SAME nodes in their Draco Chart. That is a KEY to understanding the principles at work here. And, to top it off, it becomes the Zero degree Aries point! Talk about destiny meeting intention! (North Node on the AP) A good way to get a handle on the Draconic chart is to go through and compare the zodiac orientation of each planet in the tropical sign and then the Draco—where are they now? What decan? What dwad? AND, what aspects by conjunction or opposition do they now make BACK to the natal? Once you understand your own Draconic chart, you can then branch out and look at synastry, composites, progressions and transits! Comments? Questions? Great topic! Kim
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 26, 2005 21:38:17 GMT
Hi Jade, Glad you are interested in the Draconic zodiac. (and your pajama party sounds fun!) Here is a link to Pamela Rowe's site that you mentioned. She has done a lot of work with these charts and her formula for finding the Draconic positions of the planets is easy to follow and accurate. If anyone is having trouble with it, let me know. www.astrologycosmobiology.com.au/draconic_chart.htmlI can run the chart on Winstar if there are doubts of accuracy, but do give the hand method a go. The beauty is, it allows you to work through your chart point by point and as the positions unfold you see the contacts and connections to your natal--it's a worth while process. Here are the absolute degrees of the tropical zodiac, to make conversions faster: Aries 0 Taurus 30 Gemini 60 Cancer 90 Leo 120 Virgo 150 Libra 180 Scorpio 210 Sagittarius 240 Capricorn 270 Aquarius 300 Pisces 330
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Let us know how you go! Kim
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Post by primamateria on Dec 26, 2005 22:52:46 GMT
Hi Kim and forum, I think I mentioned to you a while back that my NN is in the last minutes of Pisces, so my Draconic chart is pretty much the same as my natal chart. So far I've not had much luck finding others interpretations of a chart like this. Kris did mention that this gives one the feeling that everything has already happened, and that all of life will have draconic flavouring (sorry Kris if that is misquoting! . A letter to a friend of mine the other day revealed that most of this lifetime has been lived as though every event was 'fated', and as though there is no choice or control over events (funny how these revelations come while trying to communicate something else entirely!). As you can imagine there is also the last-minutes-of-virgo SN need to hold tightly to details. Not that its possible. My NN/SN are on the 10th/4th axis...with Pluto, Jupiter and Uranus right there it now looks and feels like this is the point towards which a great deal of my energy is drawn (and *sigh* my sun makes no major aspects). here is the chart: So, my soul is all out there! I'm wearing my coat with the silk lining on the inside and the outside... Or perhaps its just on inside out. No deep digging necessary... maybe this is why hardly anyone ever tries? Destiny meeting intention?? Truth told, I have no idea. Perhaps those 17 celestial minutes between my NN and the AP make all the difference in the, er, universe!? Ok, I suppose my frustration is obvious! Peace, Joy, PM
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 27, 2005 7:15:50 GMT
PM, I was going to mention this and glad you brought it to light.
Anyone with their NN within a few degrees of zero Aries, (even 10 or more) will find little shift in the Draconic chart. I have a file of clients with this configuration and they are all such diverse people--very maverick...living life 'their way' with a 'whatever falls in the wake, so be it' kind of approach. The zero Aries seems strong--no matter how the Sun is connected. I think I would read your draco and natal charts as one--and consider this a 'double or nothing' life!
Anyone else have a 'matching' Natal and Draconic chart? Some dates in 1969, and 1952 and 2006 will have this!
Kim
PM, I think your Neptune (ruler of the 10th) opposite Mercury and trine the MC is Key---you need to translate Neptune into the written or spoken word and work with others creatively--probably in a career situation--probably others 'less fortunate' . . .
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Post by butterfly on Dec 27, 2005 17:02:40 GMT
Kim, I have a similar situation to prima's although not as extreme. I have NN at aries 16. The thing is that in my natal I have a very precise pattern and very exact orbs. The Draconic chart almost doesn't change any sign of the planets except Jupiter that goes from Virgo to leo but it takes everything out of aspect. What do you make of it? June 17,1968 21:17 Iasi, Romania
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Post by primamateria on Dec 27, 2005 22:54:26 GMT
Thanks Kim for your comments on my Draconic/Natal fusion! (I guess sometimes I am similar to your clients in that I don't do things in the 'usual' ways). Studying my own charts is like putting together the pieces of a puzzle - and sometimes it all looks like just a pile of fragments. Ah well, I must resist my brattish urge to scoop up the whole mess and throw it. You are spot on about it being a 'double or nothing life' - at times it feels like a 'last chance to do it right', at other times I am so exhausted I do really do Nothing. Jade, thanks for the heads up on Pamela Rowe ;D:) After I posted yesterday I searched the net for articles on Draconic Charts, the Aries Point etc...not much reliable info available (except for Kim's article of course . With NN and Uranus right there, plus three planets at 0 degrees of different signs - everytime a planet changes signs I get a Zing! (and not always in a good way) No big surprise I've ended up studying Alchemy. Joy everyone! primamateria
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 30, 2005 3:35:35 GMT
I'm confused about... "the planets follow suit as they stand in the natal, none of the angular relationships (aspects) or house placements change".
Can you clairify that for me?
Hi Jade, Butterfly,
What I meant by this is that if your tropical zodiac (regular natal) sun is (for example) 50 degrees away from Saturn, then in the Draconic, it is still 50 degrees away from Saturn...we are moving everything in the chart the SAME number of degrees that lie between your Node and 0 Aries.
If your Node is 10 degrees of Aries, the Sun 20 degrees of Libra and Mercury 11 degrees of Scorpio, the Draconic node becomes 0 Aries, Draconic Sun, 10 Libra, Draconic Mercury 29 Libra. In BOTH charts, the Sun is still 190 degrees from the Node, Mercury is still 21 degrees from the Sun (they 'follow suit')
How are you guys going on this? We are here to help!
Kim
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Post by butterfly on Dec 30, 2005 13:18:41 GMT
My bad, Kim. What I meant is that when I compare the draconic to the natal everything is out of aspect. Is there a point in comparing Draconic to natal? I'm asking because I read that in synastry it's being done so....
ETA: Because my NN is at 16 Aries and most of my planets (the major ones) are at the end of signs, the signs don't change. So, can I conclude the same as Prima?
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 30, 2005 20:55:35 GMT
Oh, okay, Butterfly, I see what you are asking now. If you want, give me your details and we can post your natal chart and draconic...that way we can explain how the connections are made--or NOT made.
Whatever aspects you have in the tropical natal, you have in the Draconic. When you lay the Draco zodiac over the tropical natal you MAY see new or different connections--because your NN is 16 Aries, everything in your T. Natal moves back 16 degrees. If you have any planets 16 degrees apart, or 196, or 106, they will form an aspect that otherwise would not be seen. It can form new relationships--
Because only Jupiter changes signs, it does show that 'what lies beneath' is of the same essences as your nativity--there is an alignment. That Jupiter stands alone in this puts a strong focus on Jupiter! Your whole sense of meaning and purpose, belief system, moves from the astute and exacting discrimination of Virgo to the grand mythos of Leo, bold, creative and much less analytical--much more heart embracing.
Also, your Dwads will all change as will the Decans of every planet and point in the chart--well worth comparing and contrasting. Do you know how to work with this divisions of the signs?
What about the angles and house cusps? Where do the Draconic planets fall in you tropical natal chart?
There is much to look at!
Is that what you mean?
Warmly (and happy new 'Gregorian' year!) Kim
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Post by jamma on Jan 1, 2006 20:45:40 GMT
Happy New Year, Jade (and all Forumites!) ...
I haven't digested all the details of your draconic, but somehow it represents things I've felt from your posts ... I can't explain it any better, but the draco chart does, as Kim says, make you say, "ahh" (a glimpse of deeper understanding?) ...
And if you're having fun now, just add the Decans and Dwads to the Draco -- especially the Dwads ... For me, they are like spices that bring out flavors I wasn't aware of (or was aware of but couldn't explain!) ...
Wishing everyone Peace, Prosperity and, above all, the blessings of Eros in 2006! ...
Jam P.S. I had a similar problem with running out of printer ink and, being too chicken to face Costco, started saving stuff in emails to myself ... very often I'll cut things from posts I've started writing and save them until I am able to finish the thought ...
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Post by jamma on Jan 2, 2006 19:40:27 GMT
Jade, here is the link to the Decans table from Kim's website ... just scroll down to the decans section ... I think there's a dwads table, too ... www.nrg.com.au/~d-falcon/Eros_by_Transit_or_Progression.htmWith all the "practice" I've given myself over the holidays, I can do the decans without the chart and also some of the dwads -- i.e. 15 degrees of a sign is always the opposite sign's dwad -- 15 Libra has an Aries dwad ... My next step is to come up with a phrase that represents each planet and asteroid, combining the sign, decan and dwad ... that's the HARD part, so of course I'm procrastinating ... xox, J
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Post by jamma on Jan 3, 2006 6:27:01 GMT
Very quick reply this time ... That Venus-Lilith conjunction in Scorpio reads VERY powerfully sexy to me (you go, girl -- slink into the room like Big Kitty and strut your stuff -- then take no prisoners!) ... It seems to me that Venus, who can be so fickle and easily blinded by love, has a good friend in Lilith, who will look out for their mutual best interests ... I have DarkMoon (or BlackMoon -- whichever one has the blacked-in moon glyph) in the 12th conjunct my ascendant, which I also found "foreboding" until I decided Lilith (all of them!) should be my friend ... I even started calling her Lili (just flashed on that movie, Lili, from the '50s ... the theme song went, "A song of love is a sad song, hi Lili, hi Lili, hi lo" ... wherever she shows up, Lili DOES seem to have strong opinions!) ... Re: the position on the draco 12th cusp with all that decan and dwad Scorpio action, my take would be that this powerful pair is also working in hidden ways to promote a union with the divine ... very heady stuff! xox ... P.S. So funny about Heloise of Horoscopes -- I LOVE giving "helpful hints" (even when unsolicited!)
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Post by jamma on Jan 5, 2006 6:36:13 GMT
Jade -- just found an image of Lilith that reminds me of your conjunction ... Lilith (1892), by John CollierCheers, Jam
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Post by sopranokris on Jan 5, 2006 20:48:38 GMT
OK, I hope I'm doing this right. My natal north node is 11.49 Pisces, so I'm adding 11.49 to 330 which equals 341.49. Subtract that from 360 and my increment is 18.51. So my Draconic Ascendant would be: (Natal 18.16 Scorpio) 228.16 + 18.51 = 246.67 which is 6.67 Sag. Is that correct? Of course, if that's the case, it could explain alot about me always wanting my freedom and not being tied down....interesting! It also puts my natal Sun at almost the exact 0 degree Aries Point (29.69 Pisces)
Just want to make sure I'm on the right track before doing the rest of the calculations.
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