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Post by Kris on Nov 23, 2005 8:00:24 GMT
Hello All, I am prompted by Kim’s statement that “ Chiron return propelled monumental internal and external changes with her" under eclipse thread. WE had a long thread on Chiron but I am lost following it as I thought we deviated too much from the central theme. So, I initiated a new thread. I shall experience chiron return in Aqu in four months time. I like to make a note of how it should feel like and how it manifests. The representation of Chiron energy in different houses is available at the following link: www.cafeastrology.com/articles/chironinhouses.htmlAn excellent description of Chiron in signs is available at the following link: www.libralion.com/chiron.htmThe above links are new and thus provided more information than I collected sometime back. I am surprised to note the narrations given at the above link fits very well with my personal feelings and experiences. My natal Chiron in 8th house in Aqu. I always feel disconnected, neglected, feel lost or do not fit into scheme of things (Aua). A part of what I earn goes to support others. It is not too much of my earning, perhaps due to defensive quality of my cancer AC. I readily accept other people's values ( family members, group or society) irrespective of the relation I maintain. And finally the myth of Chiron - healing – is totally alive that I run if I am needed for healing or rehabilitating others. I never bother to care of myself. My natal Chiron squares venus nep conjunct in 4th, semi-squares mars in 9th closely sextiles sun,sat conunction in 5th and tightly oppose 2nd house Uranus. I contact all and sundry very often to say ‘hello’ but feel neglected as others do not reciprocate “care call”. I take full care and responsibility for the well being of my family yet very much detached in the sense that I don’t care if everything is fine with them. It is chiron’ish’ that I run and bother about if something is wrong or my attention is needed to “heal”. So far I attributed the detached feeling, difficulty in managing the people to asteroid Karma on sitting on 7th cusp. No doubt it is very tough for me handling the people and it makes sense now by attributing it to Chiron squaring the 7th lord Saturn. That’s a double dose since saturn is 7th lord natally. It is interesting to know the experiences of the members who faced Chiron opposition (between natal and transit Chiron). It could be anythime between 24th and 35th years of age. It is also interesting to know those experiences as opposition is the time of ‘clear visualization’ of the themes chrion represents. I shall recollect and post my experiences during chiron opposition later. I found two interesting articles on Chiron return. The links are given below: www.merrynjose.com/artman/publish/article_102.shtmlwww.astrologyforthesoul.com/chironreturn50.htmlregards Kris |
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Post by amoroso on Nov 24, 2005 15:52:53 GMT
Dear Kris, Kim et all,
I'm in a city about 500 miles from home, taking care of my mother who has had some surgery.
Kris, you must be a few months younger than my husband, who also has Chiron in 8th house Aquarius. Your description of Chiron exactly fits him, too! I never really thought of this before, but he has a large stellum of planets in 8th house Aquarius, directly opposite my stellum of planets in Leo, (including Moon/Uranus at the MC) and also conjunct my own 4th house Aquarius Chiron/Eros conjunction. I think we must provide a home, both literally and figuratively, for each other, that has kept us together all these years.
It is about another month or so before his Chiron return, and we have just received the news that he has a major health challenge. He has always been healthy and taken care of his duties, so this is a major upset to him. He is not used to taking care of himself, or spending any time thinking about his physical care, other than exercising. He appears to be in denial about the whole thing. The thing is, it is the year before our son goes to college, and my husband is feeling the financial burden quite keenly, and I hope I can help him do what he needs to do for himself.
But my question for KIM is, my own Chiron return is in June, 2006, and as Chiron is conjunct Eros in that 4th house Aquarius, opposite Moon/Uranus/MC, how can I mindfully prepare for this transit? This may be an Astro Tutor question, but I thought a general comment would be appropriate to Kris' thread.
I am thinking that the lessons I am learning from Saturn's transit across Leo might be applicable. If you do your work, Saturn can help. Since I have mindfully taken care of my health to recover from so much surgery and wrongful thinking about my body, and also am transforming my love for C into artistic channels, I am thinking that these are all healthy precursors to the Chiron return over Chiron/Eros.
Kris, we can dialog about Chiron Return here! Thanks for opening up the topic again.
I wish I had some insightful comments on Karma in the 7th, but all I have is a nagging feeling that Karma on the 7th, aspected to Saturn, is NOT the reason why you feel alienated much of the time, in spite of your efforts to reach out. I think this is a classic Chiron in Aquarius energy. It just means that you do have to work harder to be connected. And since I have Chiron in 4th house Aquarius, I really understand.
It is interesting that C has Chiron in 11th house Taurus. There are the same Aquarian overtones to the wound there, too.
Anyway, off to help Ma bathe and get dressed!
And for all USA forum members, Happy Thanksgiving! Mom has friends bringing us a meal, and I am receiving emails from my daughter saying "please come home soon, dad and Adam are driving me nuts..."
Blessings,
Amoroso
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Post by jamma on Nov 24, 2005 20:21:19 GMT
Dear Amoroso ...
This is just a flash, but what you are doing right now -- taking care of your mom -- seems like yet another part of the "prep work" you are doing in advance of your Chiron return ...
... your Chiron inner healer in the 4th house of the mother, taking care of an older person (Saturn as traditional ruler of Aquarius) ... and, opposite your Moon (yourself as mother?) conjunct Uranus (Aquarius' modern ruler) disrupting your routine ...
This sounds muddled, but it's sometimes hard to translate intuitions into words, let alone logic!
I'm not sure of the date of my own Chiron return, but just before I turned 50 my life was turned upside down ...
I went to see my dad when he was having surgery, which turned out fine, but was horrified to realized that he was so blind that he could no longer live alone (although he was too proud to admit it) ...
It was a hard decision, but I realized Jerry and I would have to get married (alas, I knew nothing would ever be the same for us), move back to the Mainland and live with my dad ...
I am so glad my dad and I had time to be together and that I was given the opportunity to return some of the care-giving (parent energy) he had shown me thoughtout my life (and he SO much appreciated it) ...
Odd thought: Maybe "the wounded healer" is also a metaphor for "parent" -- the ache of worry a parent feels for the child once she is out in the world, always wondering if she is safe, ok, thriving ...
Meanwhile, Amoroso, you sound so GOOD ... happier than I have ever "heard" you ... so whatever you are doing, it's good!
Happy Turkeyday!
jamma
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Post by amoroso on Nov 25, 2005 20:39:34 GMT
Hi Jamma,
What a great observation, that this week of caring for Mom is a precursor of the Chiron return! I think you are right. So many other issues coming up, too, like what are her choices in the coming years should she need care, etc.
Will write more later! Thanks for your post!
Amoroso
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Post by Kim Falconer on Nov 26, 2005 7:27:01 GMT
Yes, Jamma, I was just thinking the same thing about Chiron in the fourth while reading Amoroso's post! You took the words right out of my mouth. It's interesting to ponder what 'one can do to prepare' for the Chiron return—I immediately think 'nothing!" What I mean is, it's like been out in the surf and you know a set is coming and you know you are going to paddle like mad to catch your wave and ride it, or wipe out or a combination of the two and while you are out there, bobbing up and down on your board, you can't prepare--you ultimately let the wave catch you. That was my experience ... the energy of the time moved through me so quickly and so assuredly that I simply 'did' things that felt right, made quick decisions based mostly on intuition (with no discussion or dialog or feedback) and created sweeping changes in my life. I can say I am not the same person as before my return. I do not experience life in the same way! There is much written about Chiron as a wound and I think it is, at times, over exaggerated. Most of the ancient sources do not focus primarily on this aspect. Chiron was a healer, a teacher and most importantly, he prepared heroes to 'do the impossible'. I think Chiron is more about audacity than injury or damage. I think he is more about being 'More Than', not less. I think the best way to prepare is to let go of expectations and assumptions! More on this thread soon (Perhaps we should put a note in the 'return' thread that Chiron (cheeky divinity that he is) has chosen to express here!)  Kim |
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Post by Kris on Nov 28, 2005 7:49:48 GMT
Dear Amoroso, I wish your mother very quick recoveryIt's interesting to ponder what 'one can do to prepare' for the Chiron return—I immediately think 'nothing!" What I mean is, it's like been out in the surf and you know a set is coming and you know you are going to paddle like mad to catch your wave and ride it, or wipe out or a combination of the two and while you are out there, bobbing up and down on your board, you can't prepare--you ultimately let the wave catch you. That was my experience ... Chiron was a healer, a teacher and most importantly, he prepared heroes to 'do the impossible'. I think Chiron is more about audacity than injury or damage. I think he is more about being 'More Than', not less. I think the best way to prepare is to let go of expectations and assumptions! Kim I pruned Kim's message to retain appropriate comments, I felt, befitting Chiron. Amroso, that wonderful observation of Jamma echoed by Kim makes sense. You went for surfing (deliberate act) and the wave is approaching ( not very unexpected). There is nothing unexpected with Chiron return here, a sort of complexity, toughness is to be handled. You can't really prepare for chiron return, vice Kim. May be she is right. Yesterday, a group of people visited my house to discuss issues concerning community living and to raise funds. I put them down though they talked so nicely in terms humans and human values; a thing I normally appreciate, applaud and give-in for. It was a surprise for them and I was proud of myself for I could decipher their sole intention of squeezing money. A heroic act... alas Chiron as Kim says ? It's really heroic of me as I am weak, by nature, in putting down others however bad they are. I am expecting even more of this nature in near future and I am in no mood to givein. My Chiron in Aqu (relationships, groups) in 8th (money that other hold) opposing natal Uranus in 2nd MAKES SENSE OF DEVELOPMENTS. Members are already aware about the struggle I am going through looking for a new house to purchase. The margin of escalation is 'unexpected' and unprecedented. Amoroso, I talked a number of my friends to understand chiron energy. What I found is that chiron is very specific and bluntly to the point of the sign where it resides in the natal chart. Of course the issues are indicated by the house, as usual. Chiron is in 8 in Aqu for your hubby; if it is not tightly connected to 6th house in some fashion his health concern may be due to something else in the chart. With 6th, he may have tpobserve total change in daily routine, diet etc. That would be a "heroic effort" for chiron energy demands a total change (may be reversal) to 'heal'. I wish to hear normal health with him soonAny other ideas folks ? |
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Post by primamateria on Dec 1, 2005 9:03:02 GMT
dear Kris,
I saw this thread when you first started it and made a mental note to sit and write a reply when things got a little less crazy around here. (who am I kidding? with four daughters, university, work and christmas coming, its not going to happen anytime soon!)
For me Chiron's opposition came around mid October 1995. Due to the centaur's erratic orbit it was a whirlwind transit - skipping right by the degree opposite my natal Chiron (4 degrees 57 Aries) and in fact through most of Libra in a matter of days! Chiron did, however, conjunct Mercury (retrograde) at 5 degrees Libra. At the time I was quite heavily pregnant with my second child, and struggling in my fledgling marriage (it had been a very hard year, and was about to get a whole lot harder, and stranger)...I can honestly say that I am not sure what influence this transit really had, particularly as Pluto was right on my Neptune, Saturn on my MC, and the north node on my natal moon. If I experienced some kind of healing during this time it came as an emergency operation, and there was no pre-med! In the surrounding months some old wounds were opened, however, and these were more to do with my mother and father than what I thought of as 'me' at that time (my natal chiron is in the tenth, six degrees from Venus (10 Aries) and four degrees from NN in the last minutes of Pisces).. I didn't handle things very wisely during this time of my life, but I did change a lot of things.
anyway, enough about me.
Chiron is very interesting - spent a bit of time researching too.. Eric Francis has written quite a lot (www.planetwaves.net) of quite sensible articles, and continues to include Chiron transits in his weekly and monthly horoscopes.
James Hillman, (archetypal/alchemical psychology) often refers to 'the wounded healer' archetype and has written on 'wounding' and the purpose it serves in our soul-making. He talks of 'the perfect wounded state' that western christianity has idealised, in relationship to the 'puer' or divine child (god-man ) archetype, and the act of wounding as precondition to the heroic epic which is our monomyth. Many of us never move beyond the beautiful wounded condition. Think of Peter Pan (who lost his mother) living forever in Neverland with his puella, Tinkerbell and all his 'lost boys', we can all think of someone like this. Kim has mentioned Chiron's role in mentoring heroes which applies here - more though, the hero is perpetually a hero in our Oedipal world. In the myth Chiron doesn't teach the hero to become a wise old sage, a healer, only a more heroic warrior/seeker...an inflictor of wounds, a receiver of them.
"the wound announces impossibility and impotence. It says 'I am unable' it brutally brings awareness to the fact of limitation"
and;
"as wounds heal, they close in on themselves...curled inside the chrysallis are secret loves, secret hopes, secret fantasies... the soul 'wants something' - by sealing up in secretiveness, we move toward initiation"
these passages are from my journal at the time I was researching wounding and the wounded healer archetype... it makes sense to me that the the wounded healer in each of us has the potential to open up that seal and reveal all the secrets - teach us about our own beauty and heroic nature...asks that we will embark on a quest for them...the crucial point at which the puer becomes healed is a 'return' in itself - a call back to a pre-birth place, to a womb or sea - a nurse. Something which can contain that which the puer 'is unable' to.
Perhaps only later in life, at the Chiron return, as Hillman says;
"..the open wound belongs to the puer structure; the scarred wound, however, suggest the person whose soul can care for him, the person whose life blood circulates through his complexes, feeding and washing them, a self contained eros.... Healing is not expected to come from somewhere else. It emerges from the wound's depth and leaves a scar, a scar that is always visible to one's own nurse"
Something to consider anyway.
Joy!
PrimaMateria
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Post by isabella on Dec 1, 2005 9:19:19 GMT
hey,
we have our little 'chironian ' group going. Perhaps theres our deep connection on this site , that we dont get in the outside world. I too, have Chiron in Aquarius in 5th. house; about to experience return (according to Kim- one hit only on 26 Jan. 2006!!) Chiron trine Moon;conj.mercury&venus;sextile saturn;opp. uranus &square neptune!natally,
.So Kris, I can so relate to your story of always feeling neglected, like I dont fit in & not from this planet! My father (Aquarius) very stern, authoritarian & would never let me play!!died suddenly from massive cardiac arrest @ 50 yrs(? his chiron return!?)when I was 8 yrs,( hows that for an imaginary wound!) leaving my mother with 4 young children to raise. she couldnt cope,experienced a nervous break down & I ended up in orphanage where I still remember expicit details & how alienated, alone,unsupported & unsafe I felt!! worked through most of that now, Onwards,My middle most delightfully challenging daughter Liberte, born on my dads birthday, triple Aquar. born on solar eclipse! & has stellum of planets in 12 house!brings me my most challenging times as parent dealing with any residual unfinished healing from father, as I approach this most momentous,auspicious time of Chiron return!!! as I said earlier in postings (on eclipsesite) last year my ex husband left opening these old wounds, which I really dealt with as they were really about original wound of father I reckon!!! & now as Kim so beautifully put it, there might be nothing to do, but just wait excitedly & calmly (if thats possible!!!) for the wave!!!!The threads that Jamma, Amaroso, Kim & Kris write seem to weave in here as I can feel connected to them just reading their stories on & around their Chiron placements& transits!! I really have struggled a lot in my life to fit in & often feel pervertedly proud when I dont!! strange like my "outer child" acting out & affirming "well I'm not playing then !!! (shades of Chiron 5th. house again!!!) Kris, Im praying for divine guidance now for ideas of 'heroic proportions!" wish me luck everyone, & thanks for all the insights
IsabellaX
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Post by Kim Falconer on Dec 1, 2005 22:43:13 GMT
These are such interesting comments and considerations. Thank you!
Prima, your work with Hilman and 'the wound' is very relevant.
More on this soon!
Kim
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Post by Amoroso on Dec 2, 2005 12:39:09 GMT
Dear PM:
Thanks for your post--a great deal to digest. Since I came back from my trip to care for my mom I have had a great deal of fatigue in my belly where all the surgeries took place. It has made me very anxious, thinking that something else has gone wrong. I had been used to feeling good for the first time in 18 years, so this has been hard.
I can't help but feel it is part of this whole Chiron return.
Dear Kris:
Thanks for your well-wishes for my mom and husband. You are right--My husband does have his natal Chiron sextile his Mars/Saturn conjunction in the 6th. In his progressed chart, Chiron in 4th Aquarius aspects everything including an opposition to Uranus in the 10th. (He works with educational software development and training.) Initial tests are inconclusive, but he has no symptoms which is a good sign. More tests next week.
Blessings,
Amoroso
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Post by primamateria on Dec 2, 2005 22:34:36 GMT
dear Amoroso, I hope digesting my post doesn't cause your poor sore belly any more pain  sending you lots of healing light for that. Speaking of which, I am wondering if being around your mother (or did you visit your childhood home?) hasn't also triggered some chakra/akashic memory in that particular area?? Just a thought, and I'm sure you've got this covered, but maybe some chakra balancing meditation/mantra/activity might help? light, joy, pm |
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Post by Kris on Dec 6, 2005 4:56:43 GMT
Dear All,
Thanks for the insights. I like to hear more.
I don't know what I am right now. I feel a sort of disconnection internally.
Kris
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Post by Kris on Dec 6, 2005 9:53:55 GMT
Dear Amoroso,
The following passage from Chiron: Healing Themes in Astrology by Madeline Adams is interesting to note:
The healing crisis often encountered at the time of the Chiron return, takes us into the Cave or hidden parts of our selves. Illness can provide a space and time to withdraw from everyday life and time to go into Chiron’s cave. This creates a sacred space wherein there can be connection to instinctual wisdom deep within us that can teach and guide us to heal the imbalances that are the root cause of our illness.
Your husband may be in Chirons' cave at the moment, getting much needed room (time in the form of bed rest) for invoking internal wisdom and healing thereby of Chiron themes.
Your husbands cosmic picture connecting Chiron is more or less same as mine. I do feel sick, but sick of what ? It confuses me.
Kris
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Post by Amoroso on Dec 6, 2005 13:58:55 GMT
Kris,
I like Adams' quote. I suppose "going into the cave" can take many forms. My husband has not taken to bed, but has taken the time to research his condition and has been cooking on the weekends, something he very much enjoys doing, featuring foods and mineral supplements that are supposed to help his condition. He has agreed to see the alternative health care practice I've been using, which, for him, is a HUGE step! He also began running on the treadmill again after 6 months of letting work take over his life.
I think, in his own way, he is entering the cave.
I also think that by caring for my mom after her own abdominal surgery, it "opened up" some of my own "wounds." I am fine now-no more sore belly, and I have been figuring out how to up my exercise to continue to strengthen those muscles. I have to be very careful what I do--so far, yoga and belly dancing are the only things I can do that strengthen and make me feel good. But I think the time has come to up the process a bit.
I've also been thinking alot about my involvement with groups (Chiron/Eros in Aquarius and Moon/Uranus at the MC. This Chiron return seems to be bringing up alot on that topic, too!
Blessings,
Amoroso
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Post by jamma on Dec 6, 2005 19:31:55 GMT
Dear Kris,
I hope you are feeling better ... I remember from my own Chiron experience the the vague sense of uneasiness you are describing ...
I'm a woman, but I'm wondering if the Chiron return in a man's life is psychically equivalent to what I felt at the start of menopause -- as if Mother Nature was "putting me out to pasture" ...
It's not a loss of sex appeal, which is what everyone assumes (I can attest to the opposite) ...
Looking back, I can see it's more like reawakening to the Self we were before becoming a Servant of the Species at puberty (for women, I call it Lifting the Veil of Estrogen) ...
But the Self we were all those years ago feels so alien to us now that Going Into the Cave is the perfect metaphor -- we need time alone to get to know ourselves again!
For men, whose lives have been dedicated to work, work, work (more of Mother Nature's programming), getting "sick" might be the only way they can feel comfortable taking time for themselves ...
But Rejoice!
When the difficult passage of being reborn to ourselves is complete (hmmm -- Chiron as midwife??), we have the best of both worlds: The joyful sense of "I am" that we felt as children, along with all the wisdom (and baggage!) we've accumulated during the intervening years other-directedness ...
At the Chiron return, we become fledgling Elders (a term of respect and dignity!) ... it just takes awhile to rewire our minds and bodies to accommodate the graceful Being that is emerging ...
Relax and ride the wave ...
Sending you my healing energy,
Jamma
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Kim
sending you lots of healing light for that. Speaking of which, I am wondering if being around your mother (or did you visit your childhood home?) hasn't also triggered some chakra/akashic memory in that particular area?? Just a thought, and I'm sure you've got this covered, but maybe some chakra balancing meditation/mantra/activity might help?