And with the 10 deg. orb, I'm specifically speaking about the conjunction only. Trines and sextiles 7 or 6 degrees according to some. Aspects to the angles though can operate within 10 degrees, I've found.
If it acts like it then it must be in aspect! (I think Liz Greene has said and/or Kim has quoted)...
sorry for the confusion flower but i meant our draconic pluto and his draconic venus are conjucted and kim uses tight orbs for that, but i am a scorpio and he is a libra and in our natal charts my venus trines his pluto so maybe that would be taken in consideration?
I don't recall the major bodies in the Draconic needing to be so tight, but if you read it than it must be true. I recall the conjunctions to the Aries point needing to be tight. But still you are only talking about a two degree orb in your Draconic with your Pluto and his Venus. That's pretty conjunct to me!
Oh boy, Venus trine Pluto, huh? I had that with someone.... Very passionate!
I prefer to keep the orbs tight with Draconic aspect (about 3°). But if there is a conjunction of 4,5° I would still consider it important, even though the tighter the orb, the stronger the effect. I focus my attention on conjunctions and oppositions (and new houseplacements), but keep an eye on those trines, sextiles and squares, which repeat a theme (for example if there are mutual aspects like Draconic Sun squares natal Pluto; Draconic Pluto trines natal Sun) and look atthe closest aspects; I think a trine with 0° - 1° orb can be quite meaningful. But the conjunctions / oppositions are the main factors, I think.
Are you talking about draconic planets to draconic planets? If so, I think that this is more like an underlying theme, probably very subtle; maybe something your souls decided to learn together in this life, but on a very deep "soul-level". So, Venus conjunct Pluto; that would speak for a very deep, magnetic attraction I guess, very karmic and very transformative. Probably you would be changed through this exchange. Linda Goodman called this aspect the "Twinsoul" or "soulmate" aspect. I`m not sure if this is true, but there`s definitely a very strong energy working here. The Pluto-Neptune-aspect is interesting, too. Usually I wouldn`t put much emphasis on this, because both are generational planets. In normal synastry a whole generation would have the same aspect between Pluto and Neptune, but in Draconic synastry it may be different, since the placement of these aspects depends on the nodes and you use quite tight orbs. So it may be more important, more personal in Draconic. It seems to be a very spiritual connection. But how exactly it works, I have no idea. Sorry.
don't be sorry, you were a great help! we do have mars conj. neptune in our natal synastry and sun conj. neptune in our composite and i seem to recall reading kim saying about three's the rule in astrology, also we both have pisces moon in our natals. so maybe this would be an important aspect for us?
I do keep Draconic to Draconic or Draconic to tropical orbs tight as we are comparing a point in the zodiac here with another point in another system. I look particularly at conjunctions and then oppositions within zero to 2.50 degrees for the most impact. Remember, all the planetary aspects in each chart are going to be identical in either system. What is going to be interesting is how the draco chart relates back to the natal, or Draco to Draco in synastry/comps.
Draco positions, just like the tropical zodiac, have DWADS and Decans as well. Draco is just another way of expressing the 12 signs of the zodiac, so the division of 12 within each sign is the same. The main thing to keep in mind is the fact that we are working with TWO zodiacs here and they represent connections that otherwise would not be seen. The zodiacs (tropical and Draconic) set up a kind of “resonance” between them making us look at who we are and what we are doing with are lives in a whole new way.
The best way to decipher these contacts and get a feeling for them is to first remember (how can anyone forget when I say it so often? ) People are like a set of permanent transits!
To understand the synastry relationship between Venus and Pluto in depth (which you have both in the natal charts by trine and conjunct by Draconic—a ‘double whammy)--we have to discuss first the nature of Venus. Being a personal planet, she is more approachable, more understandable. Who is this goddess? What does she need, want and have to offer? How do we honor her in our lives?
The traditional view of Venus in the astrological chart portrays her as a symbol for the powers of attraction. She rules love, affection and beauty, and also what we value esthetically and artistically. Where Venus resides is where we can attract, cajole and charm others, where we can win them over to our side. It also depicts a desire for relatedness, not so much for the sake of merging but for the determination of deeper values. Through one-to-one relationship, personal values are identified, refined and adopted.
Her brand of love and attraction is in the nature of Taurus –touch and taste sensuality, the desire for tangible beauty and beautiful things, and PLEASURE---lots of pleasure. She also embodies the energy of Libra, the desire to form socially significant relationships that help establish or reflect values and individual taste. She wants companionship and is willing to give up some things to gain it. She can acquiesce if it means winning love and relationship.
A great exercise is to visualize this goddess in you. What does she like to wear? How does she speak to others? How does she get what she wants? WHAT does she want? What makes her feel happy?
When you have this picture, take a moment to write down a few of her desires. They can be anything, feasible or otherwise. Really listen to this side of you…list what she wants!
Then consider what happens when the god of Death comes to visit.
Pluto, or Hades, He ruled the underworld allotted him after the abscission of his father Cronus. At first he reigned alone then later with his queen, Persephone. A cloistered deity, Pluto rarely encountered others unless they went down to meet him. When his need was desperate though, he erupted from the depths of the underworld to seek the fulfillment of his desires.
In astrological terms, he also rules death and its inevitable retinue: mourning, transformation, change and letting go. This planet is associated with the feelings that correspond to great loss. It can relate to the breaking down of a façade or strongly held identity, the physical loss of someone dear, or the loss of a familiar way of life. Whatever the let go is, there may be a concurrent amount of vehemence attached to it. Pluto in this capacity is associated with rage.
Pluto is particularly difficult to work with unless one has some trust in fate; but how can one trust it, unless one has spent time in despair, darkness, rage and powerlessness, and has found out what supports life when the ego can no longer make its accustom choices. Liz Greene, The Astrology of Fate, Samuel Weiser, Inc. York Beach, Maine, 1984 p 37
It becomes evident right away that the combination of Pluto and Venus has potential to invoke great change, and that the change wont be light, like an afternoon breeze, but more like the force of a hurricane.
When Pluto and Venus meet, it seems the intensity of passion and longing may be redoubled. Were Pluto seeks transformation and Venus seeks union, right away you can see that it is going to be erotic. Pluto can also be a symbol for a link to the depths of the unconscious and when in aspect to Venus it can indicate a union or passionate creative endeavor that awakens deep seated psychological complexes or issues. We must be prepared to grapple with the material awakened by this contact as much of it can be associated with anger, rage, frustration, power struggles and vehement covert manipulation.
Venus rules relationships, creativity and values. With Pluto in synastry, those are going to go through change. Pluto will test the strength and authenticity of your union, your creative process and the things you personally value. Those that no longer match “who you are” will go, those that do match will most likely withstand. It is not a gentle thing. It is a passionate and compelling thing.
I love your description of Venus-Pluto; it`s enlightening. I can relate to it well (I have Venus square Pluto natally); it seems I don`t get Venus without Pluto. Whenever my Venusian side awakes (like when I fall in love or be creative), Pluto`s already there, turning the Venuisan things a shade darker. Okay, much darker. Everything seems to be a matter of life and death. For example I somehow can`t exprience the light and easy side of falling in love; whenever I fall in love, I`m going through hell, too. That`s the reason I tried to stay away from falling in love. There`s too much intensity, too many complications, but on the other hand very transforming.
Regarding Draconic charts: What does it mean, if someone has a strong synastry with someone else; but there are only few draconic connections? Which brings me to another question: How many draconic aspects are "normal" in a meaningful relationship?
You said Everything seems to be a matter of life and death. And that rings so true! Howard Sasportas was giving a lecture once and he was talking about an aspect in his own chart...I think it was Pluto on the Ascendant...and he said he had to make everything a 'life and death' matter!
I think if you have a lot of synastry contacts with a person in the tropical zodiac, you are going to really activate each other--you'll be waking up all those parts of each other that correspond with the planets being touched. If the Draco to Draco and Draco to Tropical synastry is quiescent, then the contacts that are made become stronger--less diluted or scattered. Say you only had Saturn-Sun conjunct in the Draconic synastry. I would count that contact as v. strong in the underlying theme of the relationship. If there is a sun-Saturn contact in the tropical synastry as well, even more so would that energy be a theme with the couple. Do you see what I mean?
What is 'normal' in a meaningful relationship?
Anything and everything. I don't think 'normal' exists in this model. What you might have is something like 'a lot of contact makes for a lot of activation' and 'few contacts makes for a very concentrated or focused activation'.
If you are a Gemini, for example, you are probably going to prefer 'a lot of contact' in your synastries. If you are a Capricorn, then one contact might keep you intrigued for a life time. Nothing is really 'normal'--it all depends on the people involved and what they like!
Remember also, there is a quality that a soul brings to a relationship that is not represented in the chart. There is a magic...and that can transcend any aspect, or no aspect in the horoscopes!
Do you know what I mean?
And then, there are the thousands of asteroids that would be conjunct thousands of points in the chart...maybe that is the magic we 'don't see'.