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Post by chrissymgreen on Mar 30, 2005 16:50:32 GMT
dear amoroso,
i thank you for your kind thoughts/good vibes. they are much appreciated!
i bet your relationship with c. is very intense & emotional (since water houses are involved), and i'd garner you also communicate (gemini) emotionally.
you know, it's true that those with strong 12th houses need a lot of space. they are very interior people, emotionally-driven, and they need a lot of alone time to recharge because the world takes a lot out of them. i have a pisces sun, so i'm well aware of this need, but it really seems pronounced in those with 12th house placements...or at least, it does with gordon. this could be because one of the planets he has in the 12th is mars, and mars would be his chart co-ruler (in addition to pluto). i've actually read that when you have a scorpio, aquarius, or pisces ascendant (those ascendants ruled by the 3 outermost planets -- uranus, neptune, and pluto) the old ruler is the more important chart co-ruler. if this is the case, then gordon's mars in scorpio in the 12th house is a very important part of his personality, and this would make sense. i would imagine c's moon in gem in the 12th is an integral part of his personality as well.
you know what occurred to me later on after writing that long post? i have ceres conjunct his descendant in the 7th along with saturn (also, cupid and pan, but those are more loosely conjunct). perhaps this is why there is an element of nurturing (unconditional love) to our connection. interestingly, i read somewhere that the glyph for ceres is the same glyph for saturn, just turned upside down.
dear levaju,
"In my experience, the Saturnian person becomes aware of the more vunerable sides in their personality in the area their Saturn is capured by the house person. Depending on the own personal development in that area, the feelings the Saturnian person has to deal with can be awkward or secure. Say that one's Saturn falls into the 11th house of the other person. This could awaken and be felt as an acute awareness of being very shy in groups, but it could also be felt as being very secure in the 11th house area.
Depending on how the reaction of the 11th house issues the Saturnian person's response will be limiting (shy/moralistic/awkward) or grounding (secure/stabilizing/teaching) towards the house person. This mean that the house person becomes aware of the house area by the way the Saturnian person handles his/her own reactions in this special area. If they are on the same wavelength they could get the results like those Aquarius Rising wrote about. If they are not on the same wavelength, - they still can learn from each other if you make them aware of this possibility."
wow, this is great. it makes so much sense and i would agree. i would say in my situation (as the saturn person contacting his 7th house cusp), he's the recipient of my grounding saturnian nature when it comes to 7th house issues. man, this really does click. as far as his saturn in my 11th goes, i do sometimes feel a bit insecure with regard to our friendship. he's so private, and when he withdraws i wonder if our friendship is still intact. when he's not withdrawn, however, i think the friendship is firm and dependable. as svenskasfinx says, "Saturn in synastry just makes us more aware of our own challenges, such as the binding qualities that make us 'stick together' even in times of hardship. Sometimes when we don't act upon our Saturn in a constructive way, we are tempted to leave, even before the difficulties even occur, even more so we may find ourselves abandoning situations when we don't think we can handle them...but this is where everyone learns what they are made of, and how they relate to other people." i can tell you, i have been so tempted to abandon this friendship...but then there's saturn, telling me to just stick it out and i'll gain something very valuable.
sincerely,
chrissy
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Post by chrissymgreen on Mar 30, 2005 17:44:50 GMT
dear all,
i found this somewhere and i wanted to share:
"Saturn and the sign of Capricorn reside in the 10th house of the zodiac and starts at the cusp called the MC or Medium Coeli. The 10th house is typically linked to structures, real estate, your public reputation and work in society, timing, cycles and wisdom earned as a result of difficult tasks. The 10th house, the ruler of the 10th and planets in the 10th are also symbolic of the mother, traditionally, or the parent who was most influential in your life. Saturn is a tough teacher and taskmaster, if you will. He sets limits, boundaries and obstacles for us to overcome. Depending on how well we do, he may grant us a reward for our hard work. In karmic astrology, Saturn plays an important role and represents cycles of time. When we are in a 'karmic' relationship, there is a feeling of lack of control over the events and circumstances within the relationship. Through these circumstances and events, we develop a new self-awareness, a new understanding of the person we are involved with and also how we relate to the environment. Saturn will often present us with someone approximately 7 years older or younger than ourselves. 'When the student is ready, the teacher (Saturn) will appear.' Some karmic relationships are teacher/student, parent/child or counselor/patient. There is something which must be taught and something which needs to be learned and understood by both participants.
Martin Schulman, in his wonderful Karmic Astrology series states: 'Every time our unconscious is working something out, it calls into our lives the people who have within the pieces of the answer we are seeking.' What he means is that you may find that a certain type of person or situation repeatedly enters your life. Just as you end a relationship with one person with a particular problem, another enters your life, often disguised, with a similar problem! (That is if you haven't worked out the last difficulties.) Or you may meet several people consecutively with the same sun sign or the same hobbies. There is something the universe is pointing you towards and you must pay attention to what is being presented for you to learn. This is Saturn - the wise teacher."
anyway, i thought you guys might like that.
i thought the age difference mentioned was interesting...the odd thing is, i am 7 (and a half) years older than gordon. does anyone else here have a marked age difference with a saturn figure in their life? or with someone that you play a saturn figure to?
sincerely,
chrissy
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Post by svenskasfinx on Mar 30, 2005 21:54:53 GMT
Dear svenskasfinx , Thanks! I hope you slept well!  Saturn rules my 3rd and is located in my 5th house. Certainly I am rather tight-lipped on occasion-sometimes especially with him. I DO watch what I say before I speak (most of the time). Pluto plays a major role in my chart so I am usually not afraid of challenges. Saturn grounds me but sometimes too much (in the 5th) and I have to remember to lighten up at times...although you have to make it through my silly Moon in Cancer humor and Gem Sun way of communicating! Yes, thanks for clarifying the house ruler thing...I thought it was whichever began the house...I just wanted to be sure! His Scorp Saturn conjunct my Scorp Asc and Neptune in 1st......wouldn't that dampen some of my natural exhuberance? Or just add grounding? At times the communication has been a challenge for me because he has a bit of a wall/protective shield he hides behind. Because I can 'see' him, I push past it and reach for him. His 4th h gem-mercury squares his 1st h pis-moon so he has more difficulty at times with talking about more intimate feelings. Ohhhh...I think I am off on another tangent...sorry. Just trying to piece together the Saturn challenges. His Saturn does oppose my 7th Venus in wide aspect. I guess I am trying to understand how my ASC and Neptune conjunct his Sat fits into all of this. I feel tangled....and frustrated because I realize how much I have to learn....yet excited because I have so much to learn! Thanks for your help... GemStar Dear GemStar, Please don't feel abandoned-- I think that a Canceran Moon could actually feel like that around me..  but you probably know by now that I am Sun in Cancer myself. I think you are getting the hang of things, there is much to know, and enjoy about astrology. I'm not really a teacher, but I try to help! In my honest opinion there are so many wonderful teachers for all of us.... ..which brings me back to SATURN! Saturn in general when we talk of romantic synastry is related to the idea of a long term commitment, but naturally I feel things have to be cool in order to take into consideration of everything in the most "logical" way. Some people are so in awed by other "chemistry" and aspects that they forget to notice that the Saturn is coming along to teach them things, wether or not they want to learn.  Saturn in the 5th house may sound kind of tough for some people, but I know a few 5th house Saturn people, and in spite of the "bad reputation" Saturn has there, these are actually people who are not "restricted" in the expression of their 5th house from a normal point of view.. although I could say for both of them, they have a very narrow perspective on love.. which works out perfect for them in their lives. Some people say that Saturn in the 5th house hesitates to become involved with meaningless love affairs.. (just one expression of that energy) another expression of Saturn in the 5th is an awkwardness when it comes to creative expression, which eventually develops into a tallent with hard work and practice...with it being the ruler of your 3rd house, I sugest that it may have something to do with possible hesitation in expressing yourself in love, or perhaps even a fear of speaking with children, or just someone who has a secret desire for public speaking and yet a fear of it also -(this in itself is not uncommon as the average person on the street if asked about the topic of public speaking, say they would rather be dead than speak publicly.. because the fear is so strong!) Is any of this familar to you? With that 7th house Venus in opposition to Saturn, have you found yourself almost terrified to commit to this relationship at times? How about a feeling that both of you will make it no matter what? Are any of those feelings familar? Hope these questions help you to focus. Take care, svenskasfinx |
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Post by gemstar on Mar 31, 2005 2:54:00 GMT
Dear svenskasfinx, Thanks...I feel loved now!! One of the things that attracted me to this forum is the level of knowledge so many seem to have. I love it! It motivates me to learn more and discover further layers of astrology I never knew existed! Lots of neat people here... Back to Saturn...In my 5th...not into casual relationships at all, there is no awkwardness in creative expression whatsoever for me, I am VERY expressive in Love...Sappho is conjunct (within 3 degrees) my Taurus Venus in the 7th house, next to my N Node, Juno and Ceres. (the whole stellium is within 6 degrees total-all in 7th house Taurus) As far as public speaking...it is one of my strengths...even from a young age...I was chosen as the class speaker for my high school graduating class of 800 people-and spoke in front of 3000 people that night....no fear there. I actually enjoy it. The only trepidation might be when expressing my opinion in smaller groups...it is usually all or nothing (Scorp ASC) for me...it would depend on the situation and how well I knew the subject of discussion...my Cancer Moon worries that people may not like me if they disagree with my thoughts...thankfully I have grown out of that one pretty much! With regards to the synastry of Saturn opposed Venus...yes, I get the feeling that we will make it no matter what...the N Node in my 7th house backs that up as well....His Venus conjunct Eros and Amor lands in my 7th house as well (conjunct my stellium of asteroids mentioned above) and his Eros/Psych midpoint (22.54) is nearly exact conjunct my Venus (23.24)...it has the feeling of being too good to be true at times....really very nice. His Saturn is sextile my Venus exact so this holds it together as well. Overall, Saturn feels like a 'grounding' effect for me..Saturn in the 5th is a bit restrictive but I think I do fairly well with it....I had a super restrictive father growing up (even n. Sat sq Sun!!)....I have a very idealistic ideas towards relationships that works for me...I know what I want and what kind of person is good for me...I tend to have very healthy relationships overall... Does the His Saturn conjunct my Neptune in synastry change my Neptune? The feeling of long-term commitment between us is very strong...when we first 'connected'/met we both felt it. The very next day I went back to meet him again (he was a customer), pretending I had forgotten something and we sat and talked...and he introduced me as his 'wife' to a visiting sales person who did not know me!!!!! It was only the second time seeing him....it was rather shocking yet not at the same time. Later, he told me he wanted to be GOOD-DEEP friends....this being a person who lets very few people in his life...it was unusual to say the least! Amazing really. That feeling of commitment to the relationship/friendship from the beginning was apparent. So overall I would say Saturn presents obstacles that must be taken into consideration but it does not seem to deter us in the least bit....there is a strong sense of long-termness that we both acknowledge. So how does my Neptune fit in with the synastry? (he is Gem Sun with Pis Moon and ASC). Hmmmm...... And once again...thank you! Take care- GemStar |
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Post by svenskasfinx on Mar 31, 2005 9:02:00 GMT
Hej GemStar! I also get the impression of that Sun/Saturn square may have made you a bit of a "late bloomer" in respects to your personal/romantic life. Right now you are probably enjoying this time of your life most of all. I get that especially if your Sun in Gemini is in the 8th house.. I mean, it gives me the impression that you were living up to your family (father's) strict sence of duty.. and thus being free now (I only assume) it's easier lately to find yourself commiting to a situation as long as you can see it was going somewhere long term. Thats my impression... maybe I'm wrong   ? With those other more subtle factors involved, the idea of a commited relationship only lends to the idea of excitment! If anything though, I see it moving so slowly that sometimes it seems as though it could be Frustrating..(but that's my Uranus talking).. but as we all know, me included, sometimes the best of all things need to be cultivated and you need to wait a while, but when you get there, it's that Saturn "Gold" we have been talking about. We should do Neptune on a seperate thread, either in Synastry or in General astrology. (you will get more imput with by others and information from different sources is helpful, and even better..) Take care, svenskasfinx |
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Post by gemstar on Mar 31, 2005 20:09:33 GMT
My dear svenskasfinx- You are TOO cute! As far as being a late bloomer...hmmm...yes and no. I have never had difficulties with finding boyfriends per se, just am really quite particular. Not just anyone will do for me! Committments are not a problem for me either. Although I did not marry until I was 28, many of my friends were already married by then. Also, I do not have children and definitely fell way behind in that category. I am no longer married (after 6 years-a great marriage at that-and very easy for the most part) and have not regretted decisions thus far. (My ex was diagnosed with being Bi-polar and eventually chose the bad road of drugs...see ya!). So I do not feel that committed relationships present an issue as far as being open and willing. My Scorp ASC is either all or nothing and keeps me fearless and trusting in the unknown future! Living up to family expectations always led me away from what I am gifted to do for a career. It has only been in the past year or so that I faced this fact and let it go...NOW I am earning my living through one of my greatest talents ( I renovate older homes, making the ugliest home on the street the most Beautiful!! I am on my 4th home-yet first one full-time!!)....much to the disappointment and continual negativity from my father. Finally, I realized no matter how successful I am at anything (corporate or otherwise), he will never approve. (He is very chauvanistic..and I am the only girl in our family of 4 children...and the oldest). Actually, the first girl to come along in 5 generations...I have always felt he looked at me as the 'dud' sperm! LOL!! Women have always been treated as second-class in my family-it sucked! (Regardless-Yes, I can ROAR!!) It has been a release of sorts for me...and emotionally challenging at times however...I am at a wonderful place in my life...and am very happy! ;D (Far ahead of many of my friends emotionally, financially, spiritually etc...) You have been dead-on my friend....excellent! I am unduly impressed! I can only hope to become more knowledgable in my astrology studies and be as thorough as you and the many great people here at this forum! Saturn has definitely given this relationship some obstacles and because it has moved along slowly, after the initial kaboom, so much has been explored and continues to do so between us...I can't imagine the bond would have become so incredibly deep if it were not for this drawn out time period....we also have some interesting Uranus aspects that counter-balance the timing issues. I appreciate the Saturn aspects in our lives....and recognize it's 'value' and the lasting GOLD that it can bring with patience.... Good Job svenskasfinx!! We can do the Neptune thread as well. There are soooo many exciting threads right now! I want to respond to the Sappho one...great connection there for me as well! Take care- GemStar |
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LeYeL
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Post by LeYeL on Apr 2, 2005 18:41:54 GMT
Hello everyone I have a configuration of Sat in Scorp 3rd house, opposing my Merc in Taurus in the 9th.. this squares Pluto in Leo in the 12th. The question I have is what your opinions are on this in a synastry. Svenskasfinx was kind enough to post my natal in the Hello thread in Asteroids.. hope this link works for anyone wanting to view it erosastrology.proboards26.com/index.cgi?board=asteroid&action=display&thread=1108150458The male's Merc is conjunct my Saturn exact within minutes. His south node is also conjunct his Merc within 2 degrees. So this also opposes my Merc conjunct his North node. His natal Merc resides in his 10th house. It is a very complicated and significant relationship to me, as all dealings with Saturn seem to be from my personal experience... I guess since it involves the T square. This has not effected him in the same way it has for me, and I find that very painful and am trying hard to deal with all the internal issues this has raised within me. I realize that not posting his chart makes this harder to interpret, but since this is not a significant relationship to him, I can only try and get a grasp on how and why it keeps effecting me to this degree. Any of your thoughts would be most appreciated. Best regards, LeYeL |
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Post by svenskasfinx on Apr 5, 2005 20:14:05 GMT
Hello everyone I have a configuration of Sat in Scorp 3rd house, opposing my Merc in Taurus in the 9th.. this squares Pluto in Leo in the 12th. The question I have is what your opinions are on this in a synastry. Svenskasfinx was kind enough to post my natal in the Hello thread in Asteroids.. hope this link works for anyone wanting to view it  The male's Merc is conjunct my Saturn exact within minutes. His south node is also conjunct his Merc within 2 degrees. So this also opposes my Merc conjunct his North node. His natal Merc resides in his 10th house. It is a very complicated and significant relationship to me, as all dealings with Saturn seem to be from my personal experience... I guess since it involves the T square. This has not effected him in the same way it has for me, and I find that very painful and am trying hard to deal with all the internal issues this has raised within me. I realize that not posting his chart makes this harder to interpret, but since this is not a significant relationship to him, I can only try and get a grasp on how and why it keeps effecting me to this degree. Any of your thoughts would be most appreciated. Best regards, LeYeL Ok Sorry I didn't see this earlier.. I understand it gets so complicated reading these threads and things often get overlooked, please don't feel as though the forum ignored you! My ideas are that the conjunction between his Mercury and your Saturn (not to mention in the 3rd house) plays a part with communication or lack of communication. The fact that your own chart has a T-square configuration on its own just sets your own feelings off.. perhaps Mercury/South Node pushing your Saturn into play a bit more, when you thought it was a more "Silent Player" in the complexities of your own Natal Chart. People ARE like transits as Kim always says... With planets passing points on my own grand square, such as Pluto, I can only imagine that a configuration like yours will become cool and in motion at the same time, and with Pluto loosely involved (in a fairly large orb) to your tight opposition of Saturn and Mercury, you are made aware of how the other person affects you. Mercury and NN opposite his SN can be a power point, as well as Mercury opposite Mercury. If you both don't have equal time to say what's on your mind, you can become compelled or infuriated with the other (Pluto).. (or cold, due to Saturn) If you haven't got it in ballance in your self, and how you express your natal chart energies it, you won't be able to express it well in synastry..however other factors may actually lead you to learning more about how you are, in the eyes of others, and enjoying aspects of culture you wouldn't have notice previously, with this person and these Mercury NN Saturn aspects.. (with loose ties to Pluto) What ever the case, you are made to be aware of this.. with either him saying something, or you feeling it.. or even a third party mentioning that they are aware of how each of you affect the other. I hope this was of some help. It was only this aspect. Maybe we should see the whole chart on another thread for comparision of the strengths of the aspects between you both. Remember though, just because something is considered "positive" doesn't mean it can't express itself in "negative" ways.. and visa versa. (I have had a long conversation about point of view leading us to influence perspective.. and how every single word has both postive and negative qualities.. ) Take care, sorry I took so long. svenskasfinx |
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LeYeL
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Post by LeYeL on Apr 6, 2005 19:38:54 GMT
Svenskasfinx thank you so much for your thoughts. I read this before I went to work last night and mulled it over as I worked.
"I hope this was of some help. It was only this aspect. Maybe we should see the whole chart on another thread for comparision of the strengths of the aspects between you both."
I would love to do as you suggest. I will go to photobucket and try to post the chart in a new thread.
I am just too close to this to get an objective overview of the synastry involved.
Thank you again
LeYeL
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but you probably know by now that I am Sun in Cancer myself.
? With those other more subtle factors involved, the idea of a commited relationship only lends to the idea of excitment! If anything though, I see it moving so slowly that sometimes it seems as though it could be Frustrating..(but that's my Uranus talking).. but as we all know, me included, sometimes the best of all things need to be cultivated and you need to wait a while, but when you get there, it's that Saturn "Gold" we have been talking about. 