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Post by soljourney on Jul 13, 2005 16:12:36 GMT
Greetings! I am a new mamber, and I had a several questions about the VR chart. Here goes:
1. How do rising planets affect the interpretation of the VR chart? What are the implications when
-The Moon is at the Asc -The Sun -Merc -Venus -Mars -Jupiter -Pluto
2. Further, the houses in the chart that are ruled by Venus (Taurus and Libra) are these the areas that are highlighted for the VR period?
3. What if the chart ruler is in a sign and house ruled by Venus? What does that generally portend? Does this deserve special attention in the VR chart, or is this of no special consequence?
4. What are the indications if Venus is at the MC?
5. One last thing, what are the indications if Libra or Taurus is on the Asc? Thank you so much for your help!
-Sol
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Post by Kim Falconer on Jul 14, 2005 0:17:35 GMT
Hi Soljourney, Welcome to the forum. Let's keep all the comments on the Venus Return chart here in this thread. It makes it easier to find later. First of all, we need to take your questions one at a time. Maybe after that we can post the return/natal as an example. Anyone interested in return charts might like to read my article www.nrg.com.au/~d-falcon/Returns.htmThis gives a step-by-step guide to understanding their significance. 1. How do rising planets affect the interpretation of the Venus Return chart? What are the implications?Good question. Planets on the Ascendant of any return chart are significant. Their potency depends on what else is rising (if anything), the modality of the angles and what the overall chart pattern is. Is the rising planet the "head" of a locomotive pattern? is it the 'handle' of a bucket? You can see how these positions on the Ascendant can alter meaning. Any planet right behind the Ascendant or in the VR first house is considered rising. So is the NATAL planet that may be there, if re-located to the VR. If there are no planets in the first, look to the second, and even third. Interestingly, the natal planet rising in the VR often has more impact than the VR rising planet, but anything conjunct the ascendant and in the 1st will be important. Ascending planets express the nature of themselves in more vivid ways than planets elsewhere in the return chart. They colour the chart, aligning or contrasting with the Ascendant sign. The Moon in Taurus with a Taurus rising is going to be much 'happier' than the Moon in Scorpio with Sagittarius rising. Always ask HOW the energies get along. Where are the conflicts? Where are the harmonies? Moon on the ascendant adds emotion, regardless of sign, and often domestic concerns, mother, ancestors, property. Women become more instrumental in all socially significant relationships. The sun suggests a creative flare for the year, especially in join, artistic projects--things on display! Art shows! Mercury suggest a kind of whimsical, fickle change in relationship orientation. The trickster is neigh! The Return planet rising always adds significance. Shared experiences are vital. Look to the sign and the aspect between Venus and her sign ruler or the Ascendant ruler (if different). Mars is feisty, heating up all that he comes in contact with. Tête-à-tête! Jupiter expands the expression of socially significant relationships--he wants them 'larger than life'. Check the sign! Pluto takes us down into the underworld. On the Venus Return, that journey is not done alone--but with the beloved, the partner or the memory of either. If all these planets are rising, I would give significance to the ONE that is closest to the ascendant. Unless this is a stellium in Sagittarius, pick the one first to rise. I hope this makes sense. More on this return chart soon. Kim
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Post by svenskasfinx on Jul 14, 2005 23:59:11 GMT
Hello all! I know hindsight is 20-20 as they say, but I just took a look at my exact Venus return, and I thought I'd share it with the forum. I hope that this tread will be a good home for it: I note the presence of a Moon/Uranus 10th/4th house conjunct IC! I notice also that there is an opposition with the chart ruler to the Sun, that is to say Pluto in Sagitarius in the 1st house (scorpio rising chart) and Sun in Gemini in the 7th house. And to top it off, in the Venus return, Venus is in the 8th house (sort of scorpio linked again) Only two days before was the Eros return.. that one has the sun on the asc. What is the similarity between Venus and Eros return charts, and where do they differ? thank you for you time and thanks for the question soljourney, Take care, Svenskasfinx
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Post by Kim Falconer on Jul 16, 2005 9:09:05 GMT
Hi Svenskasfinx! This Thread is perfect for the Venus return--or any returns at all! (demi-returns too!)
Remember that we don't have too much hind sight yet!
The return chart 'lasts' until the time of the next return--in this case until July 29th, 2006. You have a year left with these symbols.
To continue first with Sol's question about rising planets, we would take your rising planet in this return as Pluto--suggesting change, transformation (by fire) introspection, inner journey, power struggles, shared intimacy, you get the Pluto Picture. By contrast, your last (aug 20, 2004) Venus return had 0 Pisces rising with Uranus on the Ascendant. Now there is your 20-20 I think.
And don't forget to put the Natal planets around the VR wheel...can you see what's rising now? NEPTUNE...!!! What sort of dreams is this chart made of?
I don't put asteroids in return charts (unless I'm returning them!) to START with, because I want to see the chart pattern. Everything's a 'splash' with the asteroids thrown in, so I look first a the wheel with the majors then I add the asteroids that I might feel are relevant.
Your 2005 Venus Return is a 'see saw' with Jupiter opposite mars, then nothing major until Pluto opposite the Sun. Can you see that pattern? (You'll have to look at it without the asteroids).
The See saw is known for its objectivity and balance. You can really get some perspective here and work through issues and challenges. There are many 'ways out'... nothing trapped.
Next I look at the elemental balance and compare that with the natal--It's similar to your natal really, don't you think? That's usually comfortable.
I like to note what natal house comes to the Ascendant--in your case it's the 6th....I think that your "Socially significant relationships" will have a direct effect on your day to day basis...getting all tied up with work, jobs, joint projects etc....can anyone add some ideas about the significance of the 6th house to the foreground in a Venus Return? What does it say about pets, for instance? or health? Exercise?
The 8th is highlighted with the Natal Ascendant falling there!
If you photo bucket the natal and VR return side by side, everyone will see this.
Also, it's quite important to note any other planets about to return in the chart...such as your Moon!
What is the difference between a Venus Return and an Eros Return?
The Venus return is a symbolic picture of your SOCIALLY significant relationships, Values, artistic expression, finances and shared social activities for the next year or so.
The Eros return is a symbolic picture of your experience over the next 1.76 years that merger your energy with another, or a group, in such a way that there is a lasting transformation. Eros has different intensions that Venus, though they traffic in the same mediums--relationships, sensuality, artistic expression, values...but don't confuse them. The want very different things!
Any other thoughts?
More on this soon!
Kim
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Post by Amoroso on Jul 16, 2005 16:52:27 GMT
Hey Svenskasfinx, How did you get Astrodienst to show your Return Chart? Thanks, Amoroso
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Post by svenskasfinx on Jul 16, 2005 22:06:54 GMT
I had to calculate by hand exactly when Venus returned.. I know it sounds odd, but if you just keep on editing and find that planetary degree down to the "minute" and "second" you will get that time.. although the seconds are not the nessisary part, because you can't get everything that exact. (but I got very very close by one second of a degree.) I don't know how much this helps, but I used the "edit" button alot. trial and error. Hope this information helps.. it doesn't have that setting take care, svenskasfinx
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Post by Kim Falconer on Jul 16, 2005 22:49:39 GMT
Actually, Amoroso, the seconds do count, in terms of your Venus position. Wow, I just realized that all three of us, you me and Svenskasfinx have Venus in Cancer. Me at 0, you at 6 and Sven at 12. You're the modpoint. Isn't that interesting? Our returns this year are all within two weeks. Because Venus moves only about one degree a day, you have to have the natal seconcs right. Sven, I double checked your chart because I knew you had to do it by hand. Well done! The exact return has the ascendant at 25 Scorpio 21' 56" at 06:08:16 PM. The above chart is certainly acurate. Now, if you want a return and don't have the software, LET ME KNOW. I'll zip it out on Matrix and post the time, then you can go to Astrodienst and create the chart. Kim
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Post by svenskasfinx on Jul 16, 2005 23:03:43 GMT
I placed the charts side by side in photoshop and then made it into one document. Thanks Kim for your explanations.. but I'm still very curious about planets at the top of the chart as opposed to the ASC. I am getting the idea though.. its tricky with returns for me..I see them as tranists yes, but they do take on so much life of their own, I wouldn't know often how to seprate that kind of energy (or is it that INFORMATION). I do think I should post the eros return chart (on another thread) there were so many returns in just a short amount of time I get the feeling that this area of time is what will certainly mark my next few years. Thank you for the time you have spent best wishes, svenskasfinx
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Post by svenskasfinx on Jul 16, 2005 23:09:55 GMT
Actually, Amoroso, the seconds do count, in terms of your Venus position. Wow, I just realized that all three of us, you me and Svenskasfinx have Venus in Cancer. Me at 0, you at 6 and Sven at 12. You're the modpoint. Isn't that interesting? Our returns this year are all within two weeks. Because Venus moves only about one degree a day, you have to have the natal seconcs right. Sven, I double checked your chart because I knew you had to do it by hand. Well done! The exact return has the ascendant at 25 Scorpio 21' 56" at 06:08:16 PM. The above chart is certainly acurate. Now, if you want a return and don't have the software, LET ME KNOW. I'll zip it out on Matrix and post the time, then you can go to Astrodienst and create the chart. Kim Thanks very very much Kim! I'll remember that (as far as accurate-- I do tend to work very "virgo moonish" well on that day anyway.)
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Post by soljourney on Jul 17, 2005 22:10:21 GMT
Kim, what orb do you use to determine if a planet is "rising"? Do you conider any planet in the first house rising?
And also, you mentioned that natal planets which conj the Return Asc are important as well. Can you elaborate? Thanks!
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Post by soljourney on Jul 17, 2005 22:12:59 GMT
"Any planet right behind the Ascendant or in the VR first house is considered rising. So is the NATAL planet that may be there, if re-located to the VR. If there are no planets in the first, look to the second, and even third. Interestingly, the natal planet rising in the VR often has more impact than the VR rising planet, but anything conjunct the ascendant and in the 1st will be important. "
Pardon me, I just went back and read your initial post again. Interestingly enough, my VR also has Pluto rising (3 deg orb), and Venus sits right at the MC.
Now my 5th and 6th houses hv Taurus on the Asc, what are the implications of these houses being ruled by Venus? (unable to post my chart)
Thanks again!
-Sol
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Post by svenskasfinx on Jul 18, 2005 1:12:37 GMT
Soljourney! Welcome to the Forum! If you post the information to Kim, she can get me the dates for your exact venus return to me and I can make a chart for it as well as a natal chart to post..(but give me some time as I have been very very busy!!) And Kim; I've been thinking alot about my 6th house Neptune in Scorpio on the ASC of that return chart. (My Neptune is conjunct Icaraus and Hildago as well) There are a few things I have made notes on, I have a strong desire to change my domestic surroundings (but that may be a 4th house thing).. I have been sorting out problems with allergies (mostly trying to avoid the Sun because I am so allergic to it) and yet I've become very very very interested in cosmetics because of my allergy to the Sun.. and yet sensitivity to the products as well.. I am very confused, I'm having a bit of a phase in life where because my husband wants to buy clothes, I end up shopping too.. but not as much, but trying to get something new.. I think the Neptune/6th house thing echoes cosmetics and fashion in some sense as well as paints, oils (volitile oils used to desolve paints) Perfumes, perfumed soaps for example would be a very Neptune 6th house in focus sort of thing..and natrually aromatheropy and perhaps my interest in aquiring a brilliant bottle of fine absinthe and sharing it with the one I love.. or maybe a few other friends as well. I've suddenly got a burst of energy to do some DIY. But its time to sleep. Just wanted you to know I've been meditating on that idea of my natal Neptune making a contact with that Asc.. (How does it feel? Perfumed and sweetened and yet like walking into a dream.. its confusing but occasionally lovely, but never exactly feels "solid". And with Moon opposite Uranus (within influence of my Natal moon) it actually feels unstable and that home is despairately a place I wish to seek, and yet something has happened, I don't feel as at home as I did only a few short weeks ago.. I feel somewhat not at home anywhere at the moment.. so I am trying hard to create home again. I hope it works.. Sun/Pluto feels like a need to understand where my self begins and ends and where others do. There is alot of energy I am putting into my domestic relationship. (I just want life to run smoothly for me and them). But on the other hand I am going back to the UK on August 11th to see something alone. Hopefully I won't have to pay too much for my moment of freedom, it will be nice to see my friends there again take care, svenskasfinx
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Post by sielou on Jul 27, 2005 22:06:03 GMT
Hi Everybody! My Venus is in the 11th house at 28 Capricorn... But how do I calculate my Venus Return chart ?My birth info: 3 february 1974 at 09:28 in the morning in Stockholm Thankful for any insight as always... *take your time if you are busy right now*
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Post by sielou on Jul 27, 2005 22:49:54 GMT
Well, well, well ;D... I let Svens info sink in and then tried this ´trial and error´-method and calculated my Venus Return-chart . It was at the 31 of January 2005 at 23:26 late in the evening. I haven´t learned yet how to paste in the chart like Svenskasfnix yet. The VR-chart has Eros, the Moon and Jupiter conjuncting the Ascendant in Libra.
In synastry Eros and Moon conjunct my Uranus at the beginning of my 7th house. Mars and Pluto is conjuncting my north node in my Saggittaurian 9th house. Chiron conjuncts my Venus/Eros/Ceres/Juno-stellium with Saturn opposing it.... Vertex conjunct my Mars in Taurus and the VR-charts north node nearly conjuncts my Ascendant in early Taurus. Hmmm.... It seems that things should be moving and HAPPENING concearning relationships...??!
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Post by Kim Falconer on Jul 28, 2005 23:54:57 GMT
Okay everybody, stop trying to calculate these returns by trial and error. I can do them quickly and accurately! (then you can spend all that time learning to read them). Otherwise, I will post out the way to calculate them by hand mathematically (when I have a spare moment). Sielou, your return was at 11:26:39 PM, January 31, 2005, Stockholm. Svens, because she's a chart posting angel, is going to pop it up here for us and we can all have a read! PS, SVenskasfinx has posted the steps to take to put an image or chart on this board. It's in the introduction. Kim
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